Mutilate for levelling?Follow

A new expansion and 10 more levels to get through, so I thought I'd fancy a change from the old combat daggers.
I read the sticky, and could the mutilate build be adapted for questing and levelling?
I've never played mutilate before, and have never advanced in the assassination tree past 20 points.

It seems quite poison oriented, am I right in thinking Wound and Deadly would be the best choice, as Instant wouldn't proc enough to be worthwhile?

As for skill rotation would something like CP>Mut>Evi>Mut>Evi/Env be typically used?

For gear as well, is there anything different to bear in mind with mut builds compared to combat builds?

Sorry about the amount of questions!

It doesn't need too much adaption to be honest...Here's my 70 build... remove PvP talents like Elusiveness and Deadly Brew, pick up Dual Wielding spec and you've got yourself a questing/leveling build.

For all your other questions, look here.

Oh, and you might want to read the sticky if you haven't done so yet.

I was refrring the the Pve Raiding Mut build, and changing a few things around.

But now that I look at a tweak on the pvp one may be a better option and give me more survivability.

I think theo's build looks pretty nice, but I'm sure about deadly brew. Why would I need to use crippling when questing?
Surely using Wound/Wound or Wound/Deadly is better for Mut.

What about putting the two points in ruthlessness or remorseless attacks?

Aiming for something like this, choosing the suitbale talents as I level until 80:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fhecoeMoiboIzZ0xZebfb0hzb


Edited, Nov 22nd 2008 7:47am by jcbdrzr

Edited, Nov 22nd 2008 7:53am by jcbdrzr

You missed DW Spec, Vile Poisons, and Find Weakness. That's a HUGE difference in damage.

Oh, and Remorseless/Ruthlessness have no place in leveling builds. They're too unreliable for the small amount of potential burst.

To the OP - why use a mutilate build for raiding/instances at 80 without HfB or CttC? They are both raid-viable, plus you are missing Imp. posions, and there isn't a need for quick recovery in raids... My sig has my current mutilate talent build, and it's worked well for instances and questing.

What? I'm using my build for levelling and questing not raiding. That build I posted for level 80 is what talent tree I aim to have once I've finished levelling. once I've hit 80 I'll repsec mutilate raiding, or pvp depending on what I want to do.



Thats the way I see it, I don't see myself often using crippling, although I may keep it in as I'll probably want to try out some of the new pvp areas.

Thinking about it is there any point in using deadly poison, or should I stick with wound/wound?
And was the skill rotation I posted right? CP>Mut>Evi>Mut>Evi etc..

Last question, which gear should I focus on? Apart from agility, should i try to get a balance of AP, Crit and Hit?

Yeah I suppose deadly may end up being useful if its a long fight against a elite or something, and I have enough stacks for a nice finisher with an envemon.
Thanks for the info about the skill rotation!

What then? Just use wound/wound?

So, what is the verdict on the muti levelling build? I recently picked up a pair of Cobweb Machetes http://www.wowhead.com/?item=35655 and at lvl 75, I've gone for the combat dagger build from the sticky:



However, knowing that I want to go muti for pvp once I hit 80, I'm considering trying it out now that I have a couple of tasty daggers. That said, I've found the combat build to be pretty decent - Blade Flurry + Killing Spree is great for taking down 2 mobs at once, and Adrenaline Rush is awesome at taking down elites/bosses - so I'm hesitant to make the respec. Although, I have to say that I'm breezing through most quests with ease anyway...

So, my question is, should I respec to muti? (obviously going with the 80 muti build from the quoted text)

Cheers

I tastefully disagree. Remorseless Attacks is a terribad talent, but Relentlessness is still pretty useful for grinding. With a spec that uses more finishers than any other (thanks to the great CP generation), it's still worth putting points into.


DP/DP is actually not bad for soloing. I'd still use Wound/Mind-Numbing for the quick application, but hitting 2k+ Envenoms is better than 1.2k Eviscerates.

And while we're on the subject, why no CttC and HfB, Theo? I'm sure you've got some reason why you'd pass on a free SnD refresh (awesome for grinding) and a 9% damage increase. Don't tell me you passed them up to get Prep. Do you really use CB and Evasion that much?

So after respecing about 5 times between combat and muti while levelng, this is how I finished off a level and a half. Yes, I know Remorseless "sucks" but I hadn't really tried it out for a long time and I have to admit: it was occasionally helpful while grinding quest mobs (basically a guaranteed muti crit if timed right). But the points could have easily been put elsewhere (Prep, Fleet, MP, etc) without noticing much difference.

With that build I only very rarely missed Prep but never noticed the lack of MP. Precision helped a wee bit with the diminishing returns of my hit rating in those last levels and the only thing that slowed me down a bit was waiting for energy before the next opener (I doubt Vigor would have helped with that sadly). It should be noted that Icecrown has fairly compact killing zones.

Also, most mobs died within the CS timer, but a few didn't and would require a KS to reduce incoming damage.

I ended up really liking the build for quest grinding quite a bit, but with the caveat that ruthlessness sounds a ton better than it actually is in game play. I'll actually miss the build a lot after I respec for raiding again (looks like combat swords until I can get the 130+ daggers, qq).

Just my two pennies. Cheers.


Edited, Nov 23rd 2008 9:45am by TherionSaysWhat

Remorseless is a good leveling talent for Mutilate. You almost always have it up when you open and it effectively assures you get 5 cp after CS mut, as well as increasing average damage on the first mutilate by around 700, making it add about 100 dps out of 2300, making it more valuable than Murderm as an example, on the basis of its damage alone, with the added chance of an additional CP ignored.

Here's some maths:

Assume DWing http://www.wowhead.com/?item=37856 , crit rate 40% with mut, 2600 AP. Target is poisoned. Rogues has DW spec and opportunity.

Average Weapon Damage = 160
Modifier = 315.7
Base Damage = 475.7

Mainhand Base Damage = 656.7
Mainhand Damage = 1182
Mainhand Critical Damage = 2718.6

Offhand Base Damage = 628.2
Offhand Damage = 1130.8
Offhand Critical Damage = 2600.8

(0.6 * 1182 + 0.4 * 2718.6) + (0.6 * 1130.8 + 0.4 * 2600.8) = 3515.44 avg dmg w/o remorse
(0.2 * 1182 + 0.8 * 2718.6) + (0.2 * 1130.8 + 0.8 * 2600.8) = 4718.08 avg dmg w remorse

Remorse adds 34.2 % damage. The numerical difference shrinks when you factor in armour, of course, which is partly why I said 700 earlier and not 1203.

Hmmm thinking about changing deadly brew now... Either move the two points into Ruthlessness or somewhere else.
But what KnifepartyRogue said about blood splatter could be good... I realised that I'll probably doing a lot of instances on the way and garrote/rupture will be used often.

Pretty much using the same build as Knifeparty's linked, without MoD and serrated until I level up. like this

Also would it be better to put points in initiative than serrated blades first?