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Speccing for utility?Follow
I hate you all for taking a giant steaming **** on my thread. D:
Overlord Theophany wrote:
If you're misunderstood, then there's a good reason that people are downrating you: you suck at communicating.
This, sadly, is true. Mozared's not actually dumb. He's just horrible at communicating ideas in a clear and concise manner. Most of the prominent participants in a forum are also the most comprehensible and direct, and correspondingly the people who make little or no sense never get listened to. Most of what Mozared's saying is in line with the general consensus. He just never shows that, which is partly caused by his own desire to appear as if he is in opposition to the aforementioned consensus. "Misunderstood genius" never goes down well with reasonably intelligent people. They just conclude that you're stupid.
Also, Mozared, something you should've picked up on much earlier is that nobody likes seeing somebody complaining about their karma. It's the quickest way to get bad karma.
I could say a lot of things, but I'll stick to just being glad that someone's at least onto me. Then again, didn't I at least partly say what poodle's saying from the start?
Either way, I realize the problems with karma... It's just that while I don't care about the karma, I care about the injustice behind it. And whenever I mention or try to adress it, I simply get ignored or told to stop whining about my bad rating. Even when I'm whining about an UPrate rather than a downrate (see my previous post).
Regardless, Digitalcraft's completely right, we've hijacked his thread. I'll just shut up now.
Quote:
I already see where this is going; you don't understand what I'd call "Speccing for utility"
Either way, I realize the problems with karma... It's just that while I don't care about the karma, I care about the injustice behind it. And whenever I mention or try to adress it, I simply get ignored or told to stop whining about my bad rating. Even when I'm whining about an UPrate rather than a downrate (see my previous post).
Regardless, Digitalcraft's completely right, we've hijacked his thread. I'll just shut up now.
Back to the original subject:
From another recent thread.
Doing this sort of thing can make life easier on a tank, particularly if you're looking to build up AoE threat as quickly as possible.
Question: I know that Murder Spree and BF stack. Does BF affect Fan of Knives? If so, that could be a nice bump both in personal DPS and in AoE threat.
In terms of speccing for DPS vs. utility ... you spec for whatever will bring the most total raid DPS. In other words, if you have a choice between a talent that will add 4% crit to you vs. 2% crit to the raid, you take take the raid talent. The only time this is not the case is with something like the old Fury vs. Arms trees for warrior, where depending on raid composition, your personal DPS gain from speccing fury could exceed the raid DPS gain from speccing Arms. Even then, you usually would make that decision from spreadsheets and WWS reports.
As Theo said, there are two good rogue raid DPS talents currently: Master Poisoner and Savage Combat. If you show up to a raid without one of them and don't have a damn good reason, you deserve to be kicked. Thankfully, you can get one of these talents WITHOUT gimping your personal DPS.
From another recent thread.
TherionSaysWhat wrote:
Also note that rogues do have something pretty neat-o: AoE MD.
Tricks of the Trade + SnD + Blade Flurry + Murder Spree/Fan of Knives = Awesome.
Only recently figured it out and I was doing this all day in heroics today with a pally tank to great effect.
...
Cheers.
Tricks of the Trade + SnD + Blade Flurry + Murder Spree/Fan of Knives = Awesome.
Only recently figured it out and I was doing this all day in heroics today with a pally tank to great effect.
...
Cheers.
Doing this sort of thing can make life easier on a tank, particularly if you're looking to build up AoE threat as quickly as possible.
Question: I know that Murder Spree and BF stack. Does BF affect Fan of Knives? If so, that could be a nice bump both in personal DPS and in AoE threat.
Also, like Sir Xsarus wrote:
If a tank is far enough ahead on threat you could use this on a dps character to boost their dps. For instance a hunter, who can drop all his threat every 25 seconds anyway. I know I'd be thrilled
In terms of speccing for DPS vs. utility ... you spec for whatever will bring the most total raid DPS. In other words, if you have a choice between a talent that will add 4% crit to you vs. 2% crit to the raid, you take take the raid talent. The only time this is not the case is with something like the old Fury vs. Arms trees for warrior, where depending on raid composition, your personal DPS gain from speccing fury could exceed the raid DPS gain from speccing Arms. Even then, you usually would make that decision from spreadsheets and WWS reports.
As Theo said, there are two good rogue raid DPS talents currently: Master Poisoner and Savage Combat. If you show up to a raid without one of them and don't have a damn good reason, you deserve to be kicked. Thankfully, you can get one of these talents WITHOUT gimping your personal DPS.
just a quick mention to the OP.
Because of the wow game mechanics, there isn't a need for the same type of utility like the thf class provides in ff11. the only time any utility like that is needed is at the start of a fight, which a hunter or rogue can provide nearly every fight or two.
and just a background to the wow players. FF11's thiefs have a set of abilities that are used to force the next hit to a critical, make it a guaranteed hit, add in extra damage multipliers (on some abilities) AND pass all threat to the target you stand behind. It has very strict positional requirements (Behind the tank you want to pass threat to, and behind the mob). All classes can pick up these abilities if they choose thf as their sub job. Although they dont get the same damage multipliers a thf main class does and lose out on quite a bit of personal dps, it still is a crit that passes all threat and stacks with finishing attacks. Most 'raids' in ff have at least 2 melee constantly using trick attack every time its up to keep hate on the tanks because of the way threat works in ff11. in FF you lose threat during fights too. There is a component based on damage/healing done and threat lost is = damage taken, and a component based on abilities that spikes fast but decays over time. bottom line is in ff if you dont have a good trick attack rotation, almost all tanks, no matter how good they are, will eventually lose threat while they are waiting for cooldowns to reset.
Anyways, thats my rant about ff's mechanics.
In wow, the tanks get such a large threat lead after the first ~10 seconds of a fight now that these mechanics wouldn't make much of a difference anymore. maybe in vanilla wow, and maybe in parts of tBC, but now that the tanks have been changed and wow has no threat decay it doesnt matter at all. That's why there's no "Speccing for utility" kinda thing in wow, compared to FF where its not uncommon for melee to go /thf, red mages to go /darkknight, etc.
Edited, Nov 25th 2008 2:09am by EnthalpyTheBurninator
Because of the wow game mechanics, there isn't a need for the same type of utility like the thf class provides in ff11. the only time any utility like that is needed is at the start of a fight, which a hunter or rogue can provide nearly every fight or two.
and just a background to the wow players. FF11's thiefs have a set of abilities that are used to force the next hit to a critical, make it a guaranteed hit, add in extra damage multipliers (on some abilities) AND pass all threat to the target you stand behind. It has very strict positional requirements (Behind the tank you want to pass threat to, and behind the mob). All classes can pick up these abilities if they choose thf as their sub job. Although they dont get the same damage multipliers a thf main class does and lose out on quite a bit of personal dps, it still is a crit that passes all threat and stacks with finishing attacks. Most 'raids' in ff have at least 2 melee constantly using trick attack every time its up to keep hate on the tanks because of the way threat works in ff11. in FF you lose threat during fights too. There is a component based on damage/healing done and threat lost is = damage taken, and a component based on abilities that spikes fast but decays over time. bottom line is in ff if you dont have a good trick attack rotation, almost all tanks, no matter how good they are, will eventually lose threat while they are waiting for cooldowns to reset.
Anyways, thats my rant about ff's mechanics.
In wow, the tanks get such a large threat lead after the first ~10 seconds of a fight now that these mechanics wouldn't make much of a difference anymore. maybe in vanilla wow, and maybe in parts of tBC, but now that the tanks have been changed and wow has no threat decay it doesnt matter at all. That's why there's no "Speccing for utility" kinda thing in wow, compared to FF where its not uncommon for melee to go /thf, red mages to go /darkknight, etc.
Edited, Nov 25th 2008 2:09am by EnthalpyTheBurninator
tabstopper wrote:
Question: I know that Murder Spree and BF stack. Does BF affect Fan of Knives?
I don't believe so. At least, I haven't noticed it stacking nor does it seem the mechanic of FoK would stack with BF.
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