54sub respeccingFollow

Hello!

I just spent the past hour or so reading the stickies and other bits around here and I can't find quite what I'm looking for. I'm a 54 sub rogue and I want to try out Mutilate because I don't plan on doing PVP anytime soon with all those DK slutting up the place. I saw s 70 Muti build, but I want something that would be entirely geared towards solo quest grinding. This is what I'm looking at. Totally opened to comments and suggestions. I really spent time looking for the answers myself, but to no avail. Point me in the right direction if I overlooked something. Thanks. :)

Edited, Nov 19th 2008 8:52pm by LiptonSoup

It really depends. I'd probably pick up Bloodspatter and Quick Recovery, but those last couple of points are more personal preference than anything else.

Don't use instant for a muti build. Muti does FIFTY PERCENT more damage to a poisoned target. Instant doesn't poison a target, it simply does damage. Use wound (It's better anyways, 20% vrs 50% proc rate ) or deadly. What I typically do for muti is Cheap Shot, wait for poison to proc, Mutilate, Evis, then mutialte again. Things should be about dead at that point. If not, kidney shot and poke them around a bit

Whatever happened to instant+deadly?

Zafire, you might want to reconsider your advice. Some of your information is inaccurate.

If I were to spec purely for solo quest-grinding PvE as Mutilate, this is what I'd do. Filling out DW spec next. Soloing is all about minimizing downtime, make no doubt about it, so that's how I came to those choices. It's also reasonable for instances. You could move points from Deadened Nerves pretty easily (they're kinda "filler") and I didn't take Fleet Footed because being snared isn't a big deal while quest-grinding and rogues will nearly-universally have Cat's Swiftness on their boots, movement speed enhancements do not stack.

For soloing Mutilate you will still stun-lock mobs to decrease incoming damage, lowering downtime and increase XP/hour. CS-Muti-KS-Muti-Envenom. Rinse, repeat.

Eviscerate shows weaker damage than Envenom in Mutilate builds unless talented for. Yes, even considering the down-time of the Deadly Poison stack.

Deadly Poison and Instant Poison are optimal for grinding. Instant goes on the faster dagger. Analysis shows that Fast/Fast daggers are preferred for over-all damage output (esp. with current IP:AP scaling), but be sure to not sacrifice DPS or other stats just to have a faster dagger.

Also: Expertise > Hit (before poison cap) > Agi/AP > Crit > Haste etc.

Other than that, if you really want to excel at Mutilate build (my personal favorite), check out Elitist Jerks which has mostly raid-focussed info, but much of their advice and analysis can be applied to soloing and small-group instancing.

Good luck out there!

DP stacks just fine without needing another poison to fuel your Envenom or get the benefit from Mutilate. I found that I'd end up with 3 or 4 DP stack at the end of the stun-lock rotation, which works just beautifully for quest mobs (i.e. mobs within ~2 levels of your level). Most quest mobs are not cross-healing and if you pull 2 mobs with 1 healer you'll focus-fire and kick the healer and either Blind or ignore the other. In the case of a 2 healer pull you'll Sap/Blind/Sap one and Stun-lock the other.

IP scales better with AP. At level 70:

Instant Poison VII damage = 161-215 + (0.10*AP)
Wound Poison V damage = 188 + (0.04*AP)

At 2000AP that's ~388 for IP and 268 for Wound. The only way in which the application percentage of WP would out-weigh the damage of IP is if your hit is miserably low. Which, if you're reading these threads you would know not to do.

So, in summary: Theorycraft wins again! ;)

*edit: This is assuming points in Imp. Poisons which every Mutilate build absolutely must have.


Edited, Nov 20th 2008 5:58pm by TherionSaysWhat

I completely disagree, Therion. IP is absolutely sub-optimal for soloing.

It's application rate doesn't match Wound at all, even with Imp Poisons. Hit doesn't increase your chance to apply poisons, either. It just reduces chance to get resisted.

IP/DP is obviously the best solution of raiding, as you won't be taking Deadly Brew, but you can check my armory for the build I'm using for leveling.

I kill in 4 secs, not enough time for IP to proc. I need Wound instantly up on my target (50% proc vs 20%/35% with 5 talents wasted), and with Wound hitting for for 300-500 per proc, it's easily enough damage.

The damage is so ridiculously close with Wound/IP that you'd have to be insane to use IP for leveling. It doesn't proc nearly fast enough; neither does DP. Keep in mind 99% of us aren't breaking 2k AP in mut gear.

This thread isn't about raid discussion, it's about leveling, and for that, WP always wins post-3.0.2.

Actually, you make several valid points. Hrmmm.... I've been wrong before, I'm sure I'll be wrong again and I suppose my raid-bias might have gotten in the way of the discussion. Have to check it out after my respec tonight (Combat is still "meh").

Although, I have to admit it'll feel weird to use WP and not be waiting in the AV queue. ;)

Cheers

And just to expand on that; that doesn't mean you shouldn't try and attack from behind whenever possible. Doing it from behind removes the parry (and block) chance, effectively giving you a larger chance to actually land your Mutilate. The effect might be neglectable in soloing, but it's there when raiding; you might as well get used to it.

P.S. Thanks for correctin me in that other topic, I always mess up little things like that.

Why are you pulling more than 2 mobs anyhoo?

Mute/prep for great justice. 41/5/21+.. once you get dirty tricks, you can cheap shot-mute-evis-mute and have something dead often before it's even out of CS.

Less babysitting of Hunger for Blood, and more "can't gank this" with prep.

The sub stealth/sap/elusiveness talents are just icing on the cake.

HfB stacks 3 times and is refreshed every 30 sec for minimal energy. kkthxbai ;)

Edit: But it is 6 points, as you note. So.... hmmm....

Edited, Nov 21st 2008 4:10pm by TherionSaysWhat

No need to be snide. See my responses.