GlyphsFollow

It definately continues to add aggro. I dont know who told you that just because u have a 5 stack up it doesnt add aggro, but thats wrong. You will not loose aggro on the second target, even if someone is attacking it, as long as you are using devastate on the primary. I have seen this many times in the heroics i have been running. I have seen the secondary target die before the primary, and i never touched him (and that was from a nuke happy boomkin).

Frog, i think that is a good theory about the tab target thing, cause it does seem like when i tab to another target, its the one with the debuff.


I wouldnt call them useless geo, a must have? not really, more of a luxury. I sure as hell wont be replacing them, but thats just me. It frees up a button where my mouseover macro used to be. With tc and shockwave, its pretty much pointless now anyways.

Edited, Nov 26th 2008 8:03am by montaghar

Edited, Nov 26th 2008 8:05am by montaghar

That's one theory. I have a hard time believing it's locked to whatever the game considers the next target, since I've found if I cycle through mobs I can get a caster standing 6 yards away as the 'second target'.

My theory is that it picks a random mob that's close enough and sticks to it. I also have a theory on how to move around that. If you have 3 targets, then you Devastate the first until it and its 'locked' secondary target are full with debuffs. Then you use Devastate on the 3rd target, go back to the main target, and see if the 'secondary target' has been 'unlocked'. So that it once again picks a mob at random.

However, as many people point out it's not that important to have it jump around, since TC and SW are more than enough to keep aggro off the healer in a pull. In addition, the main target is likely dead if you weave in Revenge and Shield Slam enough to keep aggro on it, and therefore you can just resume aggro holding on 2nd target, and get free sunders on 3rd.

Stuff dies fast enough if the DPS do their job, so it's unnecessary to plan ahead with the whole stacking sunder thing.


Geotank: A lot of your theorycrafting is... not very logical. You need to do some research on game mechanics and get perspective on game balance, because what you've suggested in some of your posts is either strange or plainly OP.


Buzak: I don't know what you think, but in my experience it's the first moments of a fight that're the most crucial. If you get a parry, dodge or miss on the first Shield Slam, get unlucky with Revenge Procs and have impatient DPS... the pull could go really bad. Therefore (IF GoD gives threat for the extra sunder stack applied) the extra threat is only a good thing, and no less so because it only works in the beginning of the fight.


To all you who argue about threat after 5 stacks, this is how Devastate works:

- It does damage threat + innate damage of the sunder armor debuff (same threat as if you'd sunder AND deal the damage).
- It adds [rank] damage each Sunder debuff.
- After 5 Sunder debuffs you no longer get threat as if you'd sunder the target AND to damage, but only for the damage it deals (this on the other hand is [rank] * 5, so it sort of compensates for the lost threat).


However, I think we can safely assume that we get threat for the extra Sunder debuff. If we don't, it would actually gimp us to get GoD. Math:

- Without Glyph of Devastate -
(Defensive Stance threat increase is static, so I'll use base values since we'll get the same %ual difference with Def. Stance, but with larger figures)
First Dev.: 301 threat + ~200 dmg. (501 threat)
Second Dev.: 301 threat + 235 dmg. (536 threat)
Third Dev.: 301 threat + 270 dmg. (571 threat)
Fourth Dev.: 301 threat 305 dmg. (606 threat)
Fifth Dev.: 301 threat 340 dmg. (641 threat)

2 855 threat total!

After this you have 5 sunder stacks, and it only generates threat for the dmg done.

- With Glyph of Devastate -

First Dev.: 301 threat + ~200 dmg. (501 threat)
Second Dev.: 301 threat + 270 dmg. (571 threat)
Third Dev.: 301 threat 340 dmg. (641 threat)

1 703 threat total!

After this you have 5 sunder stacks, and you'll only get threat for the damage.

If blizz are in their right minds, they'll have us getting threat for the 2nd stack as well, equaling out this big threat gap.

As far as game breaking i think for prot war's there is one; and that's glyph of blocking. For 200g you get a scaleing, permanent 10% block value increase sence CD on slam is 6 secs( no S&B proc) and the glyph buff lasts 10 seconds. And S&B only makes it that much better.

Edited, Dec 2nd 2008 2:52pm by Zfrsted

I use shockwave at the first of the fight all the time. It's not on a long CD and there are better panic buttons.

Ok, you've got the Glyph and you've tested it. I didn't think so since your first posts were implying that you hadn't even thought about this Glyph combo before. Again, I fail to understand your point when you emphasize me being an arms warrior.

I do have the Glyph now, but havn't pushed myself to test anything yet. Only time I use Sunder is in instances, and it's usually not my first priority to experiment in these.

I am going to respec prot at 80, yes. However, the reason I made this thread was to see if I could gain 3 talent points by compensating for Imp. Sunder with Glyphs. Either way gives efficient Sundering, but I think I prefer the Glyphs.

I know prot is good for leveling and grinding now (I was in fact prot at level 70, did dailies with it everyday so I know how to play it). This is more due to the reduced down time, and not so much the damage you speak of. Anyhow, if I were to level in prot gear I'd much rather pick a Revenge spec that a deep prot spec. That's just my opinion though.

I liked prot very much, but my current build gives me more versatility. I can level in either prot gear or 2h gear, which ever I feel like at the moment. Each has its drawbacks and advantages: As I've said, prot gear = no down time, now what I've got Enraged Regeneration. Arms gear is more down time but faster killing, higher numbers. I like the variation.


Erm... I never said it'd be locked to mob 1, but I get your point. The reason why I thought it would be locked to one mob for the entire fight is this post:

However, I doubted it. Simple reason: If they all go to mob 2, where does it go if you sunder mob 2? Not likely on mob 2. Therefore I assumed it must be disruptable.

Might I also add that you were more clueless than anyone else when you first posted in this thread. While I'm glad for your quickly-found confidence, it has a slight impact when you're trying to make heavy punchlines.


What you have to remember here is that pallies are the game's AoE tank's. We're not meant to hold AoE aggro as good as them, since our class would then make their prot tree uncalled for. I've long since accepted I won't be able to tank multiple mobs as good as a pally. Maybe you should too?

If not, at least try to improve your tanking a bit. To use an ability with a 20 sec CD as a panic button is plain stupid. To make better use if it, use it when ever it's up and you need AoE aggro. Doing this and weaving in TC helped me very much while struggling with AoE:ing mages in heroics in BC.

I'm not sure what you mean with the whole 'wanting an ability from another class' thing, since your grammar is weird. I can only assume you mean I want Consecration and Avenger's Shield, or things like that? I can honestly tell you: No. If I want an ability from another class that bad I'll level said class. The classes have their abilities for a reason, it's what makes them unique. You've already proved you have no comprehension for game balance, but this is how I see it. Blizz gave each class their abilities for a reason, if you think you could do better you ought to go make your own little game.

Also, you'll do best in not speaking for others. Mental might not agree with that you say about him. I want 2 warriors too. One tauren for tanking and one orc for DPS and PvP. The racials make it simple.


Oh, so you want to argue semantics do you? An odd choice for someone with your language skills, but ok.



- Use capitalization in the beginning of a sentence.
- If you use more question- or exclamation marks than one you imply great impatience if not out-right irritation.
- Use apostrophe when binding together two words, such as 'I have' -> I've.
- It's not vigilence, it's Vigilance.


In addition to some early-mentioned points:
- It's 'says', not 'sais'.
- <space> is used after a punctuation, not before, not before AND after and not not-at-all.


In addition to some early-mentioned points:
- It's 'Generally', not 'Jeneraly'.
- It's 'Irritating', not 'iritating'. You seemed to have gotten this right later on though. Strange you can't seem to get it right at first.
- When referring to several abilities being something, you use 'they' and 'are'. Bound together this is 'they're', not 'their'. The latter is the possessive form of 'they'.
- It's 'definitely', not 'definitelly'.
- It's 'choice', not 'choise'.
- It's 'playing', not 'plying'. Unless you were making a very unnecessary abbreviation.


- It's 'conjunction', not 'conjuction'.


In addition to some early-mentioned points:
- It's 'equipped', not 'equiped'.
- It's 'independently', not 'indipendently'.
- It's 'applied', not 'aplied'. Again, you seem to have failed the first time(s) but eventually gotten it right.
- Extensive use of capital letters in a word could suggest anger. While this is a powerful tool when emphasizing something, it should be used with discretion.
- It's 'decrease', not 'dicrease'.
- It's 'traveling', not 'travelling'.
- It's 'happens', not 'happends'.
- Irregular use of capital letters in one word is considered strange and wrong in most cases.

[quote]No comments : http://www.wowwiki.com/Sunder_Armor[/quote]
You must realize that, technically, this is a comment.

I know the obvious counter to what I've just pointed out: 'well...LOL i m not even an enlish major!'

This is true. But if you're stupid enough to argue semantics when you can't even spell properly you can expect to get something like this shoved in your face.

Edit: Quoting seems to stop working after a while, so I split the post up.

Edited, Dec 4th 2008 12:23am by Utarius

Heh, yes alright. I'm not sure about that one. One point to you man. Think we should keep a score board? In that case my advise to you is: Quit while you're behind. If that even is a saying...

Again: It's you who needs to control yourself. You who needs to get a new attitude, because I've been more patient with you that I have with most who write stupid things here.

I know what Spell Reflect is. You don't seem to though. Spell Reflect is a protection ability. Improved Spell Reflect is the Prot talent. Why don't you read up on some more stuff? Quite embarrassing to be inferior to a DPS warrior about prot abilities, isn't it?

Geo:

I posted a comment about your idea of an AoE Sunder Glyph being analogous to Avenger's Shield. My point was that due to difference in resource cost, it's not. It's a reasonable comment that I made on your last post in the thread at the time (which had no reply), though apparently it got under your surprisingly thin skin.

As for 'how' you write, you'd be doing yourself and the boards a favor if you cleaned it up a bit. Even your last post, I honestly just glanced over and saw my name or I wouldn't have read those sections. When you first started posting here (August and October are the first two I remember) you made an effort to be readable. Don't know what's changed, but your posts would be more useful if you went back to your earlier writing style.

In the interest of making your posts easier to read, here's a tip - if you type [ quote=<author> ] instead of just [ quote ], you'll be able to tag your quotes more easily, especially if you're quoting a bunch of different people like you did in the last one.

Anyway, I don't particularly feel like getting into a flame war with you. I'm done on this thread unless something useful comes along that I feel like commenting on again.

I guess you are right.
I owe an apology from you and especially from Utarius.(with whom, as I said 99% times I agree)
Is the apology accepted?
I will never go this path again...