Glyph of Sunder Armor: Does this work if you use Devastate?
Glyph of Devastate: Do you get threat for 2x Sunder applications + damage, or is it 1x Sunder and just an extra stack to armor reduc?
Both together: Is that 2x Sunder stacks on Main Target and 1x on Secondary Target? Pretty efficient sundering if so...
GlyphsFollow
Nice...
Has anyone actually tried this?
Has anyone actually tried this?
Utarius wrote:
Glyph of Sunder Armor: Does this work if you use Devastate?
Glyph of Devastate: Do you get threat for 2x Sunder applications + damage, or is it 1x Sunder and just an extra stack to armor reduc?
Both together: Is that 2x Sunder stacks on Main Target and 1x on Secondary Target? Pretty efficient sundering if so...
Glyph of Devastate: Do you get threat for 2x Sunder applications + damage, or is it 1x Sunder and just an extra stack to armor reduc?
Both together: Is that 2x Sunder stacks on Main Target and 1x on Secondary Target? Pretty efficient sundering if so...
Glyph of Sunder does work with Devastate. I tested that one myself.
I haven't tried the Devastate glyph yet because they were expensive and I got the HS one instead at least until 80.
At minimum it would put 2x sunder on your main target. It's just a question if sunder glyph stacks with devastate to apply 2x to the secondary target. Even with 2x and 1x it's pretty good. I really like the warrior tanking glyphs.
what about the rage cost ??
How much rage cost Sunder armour if Glyph of Sunder exists?
How much rage cost Devastate if Glyph of Devastate exists?
How much rage cost Devastate if both Glyphs exists?
If the answer for all of the above is 30+ then ...hm...
So far I ve lost aggro of Skull from a (an impatient) mage 74 lvl (with vigilence on him) while I were 71 and did not use any of those glyphs...
How important are those glyphs anyway? (I ll get to 80 see there what happends in threat/classes and reply to myself)
How much rage cost Sunder armour if Glyph of Sunder exists?
How much rage cost Devastate if Glyph of Devastate exists?
How much rage cost Devastate if both Glyphs exists?
If the answer for all of the above is 30+ then ...hm...
So far I ve lost aggro of Skull from a (an impatient) mage 74 lvl (with vigilence on him) while I were 71 and did not use any of those glyphs...
How important are those glyphs anyway? (I ll get to 80 see there what happends in threat/classes and reply to myself)
geotank wrote:
what about the rage cost ??
How much rage cost Sunder armour if Glyph of Sunder exists?
How much rage cost Devastate if Glyph of Devastate exists?
How much rage cost Devastate if both Glyphs exists?
If the answer for all of the above is 30+ then ...hm...
So far I ve lost aggro of Skull from a (an impatient) mage 74 lvl (with vigilence on him) while I were 71 and did not use any of those glyphs...
How important are those glyphs anyway? (I ll get to 80 see there what happends in threat/classes and reply to myself)
How much rage cost Sunder armour if Glyph of Sunder exists?
How much rage cost Devastate if Glyph of Devastate exists?
How much rage cost Devastate if both Glyphs exists?
If the answer for all of the above is 30+ then ...hm...
So far I ve lost aggro of Skull from a (an impatient) mage 74 lvl (with vigilence on him) while I were 71 and did not use any of those glyphs...
How important are those glyphs anyway? (I ll get to 80 see there what happends in threat/classes and reply to myself)
I think you've misunderstood me.. All these Glyphs exsist, I'm just wondering how they work.
The base cost of Sunder Armor is 15 Rage, if that's what you're wondering about. A glyph which increases debuff stacks will not increase the rage cost without mentioning.
@Mental: Good thinking, I hadn't considered that you might get 2x stacks of sunder on the secondary target. If this is so, however, it's broken and will be fixed (since you don't actually USE Devastate on the secondary target).
I havent used Sunder armour Glyph nor Devaste Glyph yet but I ll try them to see how they work.
I simply dont understand rage mechanism cost.
Glyph of Revenge is straightfoward :After using Revenge, your next Heroic Strike costs no rage. So with 2 clicks , one on Revenge and one on HS we spend 5 rage.
Sunder Armor Glyph:'Your Sunder Armor ability affects a second nearby target'. It does not mention at what cost... is it rage free the application of Sunder to the nearby target...or the total cost will be the rage cost of 2 sunders?
Sorry for my poor English :)
I m just interested in learning this information. :)
I simply dont understand rage mechanism cost.
Glyph of Revenge is straightfoward :After using Revenge, your next Heroic Strike costs no rage. So with 2 clicks , one on Revenge and one on HS we spend 5 rage.
Sunder Armor Glyph:'Your Sunder Armor ability affects a second nearby target'. It does not mention at what cost... is it rage free the application of Sunder to the nearby target...or the total cost will be the rage cost of 2 sunders?
Sorry for my poor English :)
I m just interested in learning this information. :)
Quote:
Glyph of Sunder Armor: Does this work if you use Devastate?
I actually haven't tried this yet. I prefer glyph of block and glyph of revenge together. But once I hit 80 I plan on having glyph of heroic strike instead of devastate and sunder.
I hear that it does work together. But it deals less threat, but honestly, threat is not an issue anymore and aoe threat is very very useful. I will definetly try those glyphs together this week and find out more. Try another forum (the Oforums probably have something on this) and use the internet search functions to it's fullest....
Every forum I ve read so far gives contradictory data.
Others say they have tested this then another guys sais : no y are wrong bla bla... bla.. a third guy sais its bugged...lol
The majority of people tend to agree about the 'binding' between Devastate and Sunder armour
Its the threat and the rage cost they cannot agree... ( Blizz crap)
I find that some ppl say .Just TC for aoe-threat ,its only 10 rage cost with Glyph of bla bla and you make an easy 300 damage on all mobs' (and so far thats what I do...)
Others say they have tested this then another guys sais : no y are wrong bla bla... bla.. a third guy sais its bugged...lol
The majority of people tend to agree about the 'binding' between Devastate and Sunder armour
Its the threat and the rage cost they cannot agree... ( Blizz crap)
I find that some ppl say .Just TC for aoe-threat ,its only 10 rage cost with Glyph of bla bla and you make an easy 300 damage on all mobs' (and so far thats what I do...)
geotank wrote:
Glyph of Revenge is straightfoward :After using Revenge, your next Heroic Strike costs no rage. So with 2 clicks , one on Revenge and one on HS we spend 5 rage.
Yes, but if you try to bind HS into a Macro with Revenge, it doesn't always work.
geotank wrote:
Sunder Armor Glyph:'Your Sunder Armor ability affects a second nearby target'. It does not mention at what cost... is it rage free the application of Sunder to the nearby target...or the total cost will be the rage cost of 2 sunders?
Sorry for my poor English :)
I m just interested in learning this information. :)
Sorry for my poor English :)
I m just interested in learning this information. :)
It may be not obvious to me, but it is to me: If you get an extra effect from a glyph, and an increased cost isn't mentioned, you can safely assume that the rage cost will stay the same. Anything else would be a bug.
geotank wrote:
The majority of people tend to agree about the 'binding' between Devastate and Sunder armour
Its the threat and the rage cost they cannot agree... ( Blizz crap)
Its the threat and the rage cost they cannot agree... ( Blizz crap)
I can imagine that what they're talking about is indeed the merging of talent effects of Sunder and Devastate, being Imp. Sunder Armor decreasing Devastate rage cost too. Blizz have said that this will hold true with everything that effects Sunder, and I was just basically asking if anyone knows if the Glyphs are bugged, since it's sort of obvious what they SHOULD do.
About TC: you can use it just as much for Mitigation as you do threat. Mobs don't hit you as fast = simple way to reduce damage done to you.
I'll be getting these Glyphs, since I don't fancy Glyph of Revenge any more. I'll probably be getting Glyph of Blocking too, it seems nice.
Quote:
geotank wrote:
Glyph of Revenge is straightfoward :After using Revenge, your next Heroic Strike costs no rage. So with 2 clicks , one on Revenge and one on HS we spend 5 rage.
Yes, but if you try to bind HS into a Macro with Revenge, it doesn't always work.
Glyph of Revenge is straightfoward :After using Revenge, your next Heroic Strike costs no rage. So with 2 clicks , one on Revenge and one on HS we spend 5 rage.
Yes, but if you try to bind HS into a Macro with Revenge, it doesn't always work.
Yes , I couldn t agree more with this. Jeneraly the use of HS is iritating as iritating is slam and cleave.... Its not that I dont like the damage they do. Its the fact that they work on their own rythm .. their not instant as other attacks.(Being a protection warrior is so demanding usually clicking 2-3 buttons almost at the same time.. hitting one of the irritating buttons means I have to pause all the other attacks for 1-2 secs.)
So any Glyph improving HS is definitelly not the choise for me too (being in protection).( I m not saying though thats is the correct or wrong choise for others)
I m using so far Glyph of Resonating Power (TC improvement= TC costs 10 rage) and i must say it has improved my type of plying at some situations. Especially in pulls were y cant charge at mobs. Since TC is faster up I ve come to use Demo shout less and less often as it produces less aoe threat. Then when threat is established on mobs the TC ability is more frequently used as it cost less rage... more threat and damage with 1 click. Climbing the dps chain...
Glyph of Sunder Armor DOES work with Devastate. Had a talk about it with another warrior tank in the guild., because I was just using sunder armor separately for multiple targets (tried out devastate when he mentioned it, and it does work, I just never paid attention).
I have also noticed that it costs the same amount of rage as it would if you just had regular devastate without the glyph.
Hope that helps.
I have also noticed that it costs the same amount of rage as it would if you just had regular devastate without the glyph.
Hope that helps.
There was a bug where glyph of sunder armor was charging the rage for 2. This has been fixed.
I use both the devastate and sunder armor, and its amazing.
Glyph of devastate, does not apply the damage to the second target, just the debuff.
Edited, Nov 24th 2008 1:14pm by montaghar
I use both the devastate and sunder armor, and its amazing.
Glyph of devastate, does not apply the damage to the second target, just the debuff.
Edited, Nov 24th 2008 1:14pm by montaghar
montaghar wrote:
There was a bug where glyph of sunder armor was charging the rage for 2. This has been fixed.
I use both the devastate and sunder armor, and its amazing.
Glyph of devastate, does not apply the damage to the second target, just the debuff.
I use both the devastate and sunder armor, and its amazing.
Glyph of devastate, does not apply the damage to the second target, just the debuff.
Which makes complete sense. Sunder is a debuff. It doesn't do damage. The Sunder glyph applies any sunder debuff (including the one applied through a devastate) to an additional target.
The devastate glyph applies 2 sunder debuffs with one devastate.
The question we mainly have now, montaghar, is do these 2 stack? In other words does the sunder glyph apply 2 sunders to the additional target or just one?
No, they do not stack, the main target will recieve two, and the extra target will recieve one. I am trying to figure out if it will do the random to the same additional target though.
For instance if u have 3 mobs on you and the one in the middle is the skull, does the additional target sunder always go to the same adittional target, or can it bounce around. I will let yall know what i find after my heroics tonight.
For instance if u have 3 mobs on you and the one in the middle is the skull, does the additional target sunder always go to the same adittional target, or can it bounce around. I will let yall know what i find after my heroics tonight.
So cool. Then those 2 glyphs in conjuction with a mouse over devastate even cooler :))
Now all we need is an aoe high thread pull weapon/mechanism/Glyph/ability ( LOLOLOOLO)
Now all we need is an aoe high thread pull weapon/mechanism/Glyph/ability ( LOLOLOOLO)
Ok, tested this out in heroic Gundrak, (BTW that last boss hits like a truck) and aparently, whichever mob gets the first extra sunder, they all go to him. I had the skull with 5, the x with 5 and the O with 0. I guess having them just jump around would be a little op lol.
P.S. In case you didnt know, shamans can sheep now, or hex. I wasnt aware of that, and i kept seeing one of the mobs become a frog and was like wtf is doing that!
/facepalm
Edited, Nov 25th 2008 7:55am by montaghar
P.S. In case you didnt know, shamans can sheep now, or hex. I wasnt aware of that, and i kept seeing one of the mobs become a frog and was like wtf is doing that!
/facepalm
Edited, Nov 25th 2008 7:55am by montaghar
nah thats not the shaman mate its the frog of doom, this must be attacked ASAP or you wipe and your character is deleted from the game!!!!!!!!!111111one one one eleven!!!!!!
I used Glpyh of sunder as soon as someone could make it, but since the patch came out no one has been able to make glyph of devestate on my server, is it a relitively hard one to come b or jsut ppl not bothering to put them on AH???
Edited, Nov 25th 2008 8:50am by redbarronthesecond
I used Glpyh of sunder as soon as someone could make it, but since the patch came out no one has been able to make glyph of devestate on my server, is it a relitively hard one to come b or jsut ppl not bothering to put them on AH???
Edited, Nov 25th 2008 8:50am by redbarronthesecond
Ok, so we've solved that the debuff system works as intended. Or at least the most obvious way.
My question remains: Threat.
Do you get threat for 2 Sunders + Devastate innate when using Devastate with Glyph?
I'm assuming you get threat for the extra sunder applied from GoSunder, since it wouldn't be much use getting it if not.
Devastate remains puzzling though. Without GoDev. Devastate deals threat for 1 sunder armor + innate if the target is below 5 stacks. So, with GoDev., will it deal the threat of 2x sunders + it's innate threat?
Also, if you use Devastate to sunder someone next to your Main Target, will threat sieze at 5 stacks?
The last remark might be unnecessary, since that's not how it should work, but if Devastate deals threat worth of 2 sunder + innate is a pretty valid question I think. Could anyone test this?
My question remains: Threat.
Do you get threat for 2 Sunders + Devastate innate when using Devastate with Glyph?
I'm assuming you get threat for the extra sunder applied from GoSunder, since it wouldn't be much use getting it if not.
Devastate remains puzzling though. Without GoDev. Devastate deals threat for 1 sunder armor + innate if the target is below 5 stacks. So, with GoDev., will it deal the threat of 2x sunders + it's innate threat?
Also, if you use Devastate to sunder someone next to your Main Target, will threat sieze at 5 stacks?
The last remark might be unnecessary, since that's not how it should work, but if Devastate deals threat worth of 2 sunder + innate is a pretty valid question I think. Could anyone test this?
You got me man. Im not sure how u could test threat reliably, in a controlled situation. I have noticed that my omen doesnt report threat numbers until it has an average maybe? I just know that its a bunch of ???? until i have whacked on him a few times. Does threat report in the combat log?
I can say that i have had no problems with threat, single target tanking using it, well i never had problems before either, but its pretty simple now, i could prolly tank for 25-30 secs then afk on a boss and still not lose aggro.
AFAIK, the devastate glyph is a major, and all majors are trainable. its the minors that have to be researched. I could be wrong as i havnt taken my inscriptionist past 350. Maybe the WotLK stuff is different though.
Edited, Nov 25th 2008 11:46am by montaghar
I can say that i have had no problems with threat, single target tanking using it, well i never had problems before either, but its pretty simple now, i could prolly tank for 25-30 secs then afk on a boss and still not lose aggro.
AFAIK, the devastate glyph is a major, and all majors are trainable. its the minors that have to be researched. I could be wrong as i havnt taken my inscriptionist past 350. Maybe the WotLK stuff is different though.
Edited, Nov 25th 2008 11:46am by montaghar
I have neither the time or the patience for testing threat in Live.
I have read (yes that ambiguous 'somewhere on the internet') that GoD (heh) causes a % less threat on each mob, but the overall threat is moar.
The actual #'s I will leave to someone with much more free time than I have. Check cinderhelms page, elite jerks page, and of course the Oforums will probably be full of 'reliable' information.
I have read (yes that ambiguous 'somewhere on the internet') that GoD (heh) causes a % less threat on each mob, but the overall threat is moar.
The actual #'s I will leave to someone with much more free time than I have. Check cinderhelms page, elite jerks page, and of course the Oforums will probably be full of 'reliable' information.
devioususer wrote:
I have read (yes that ambiguous 'somewhere on the internet') that GoD (heh) causes a % less threat on each mob, but the overall threat is moar.
You mean GoSA, since GoD only ever affects one target?
montaghar wrote:
Ok, tested this out in heroic Gundrak, (BTW that last boss hits like a truck) and aparently, whichever mob gets the first extra sunder, they all go to him. I had the skull with 5, the x with 5 and the O with 0. I guess having them just jump around would be a little op lol.
I would assume it's the same mob that you would target if you hit the 'target next' button, or tab targeting as it's called. This could be tested by hitting devastate on mob one and tab to next target, check for the sunder debuff, and devastate the 2nd target. Check 3rd and/or 1st target for the additional debuff.
I'll have to try this out and see. This makes multi-target sunders for agro easier. Of course with all the new prot warrior toys in aoe I haven't had any problems keeping threat. I especially love shockwave.
Utarius wrote:
You mean to say God can't AE? What about the Rain of blood? Or the Rain of Frogs? Locusts sure sounded like a rightful AE...
Edited, Nov 25th 2008 8:34pm by devioususer
Quote:
devioususer wrote:
I have read (yes that ambiguous 'somewhere on the internet') that GoD (heh) causes a % less threat on each mob, but the overall threat is moar.
I have read (yes that ambiguous 'somewhere on the internet') that GoD (heh) causes a % less threat on each mob, but the overall threat is moar.
Quote:
You mean GoSA, since GoD only ever affects one target?
You mean to say God can't AE? What about the Rain of blood? Or the Rain of Frogs? Locusts sure sounded like a rightful AE...
Edited, Nov 25th 2008 8:34pm by devioususer
The serious part:
Its no brainer...
all tanks should be equiped at least with G.O Devastate indipendently if it gives or not threat , indipendently if it stucks with G.O Sunder armor indipendently if the sunders go to whatever target. The fact that the next devastate landed on mob will be stronger (since 2 sunders have already been aplied by 1st devastate) is more than enough to put G.O. devastate in our favorite Glyphs.
Theory crafting for using Devastate as a AE ability:
Pre- pull:
mob1 mob2 mob3
warrior
(G.O.D+G.O.S)
The skull should be mob1 . 1st Devastate should be applied to mob 1( so that mobs 1 and 2 gets the S.A effect) and the next devastate on mob 3 ( so mob 3 and 2 gets devastates)
The 'Oh I ve nothing to do at work' part:
One thing I DO NOT UNDERSTAND : Why does the sunder armour effect is applied only to primary and ONE MORE target????
The really cool and LOGIC thing would be if the sunder armor effect was APPLIED to ALL our Targets!!!!!! Its not that hard BLizz.. since the real reason for putting These 2 toys was to dicrease the GAP between Warrs and Pallys on the crucial 1st second of a fight. Even if this request is made still we are inferior ,in this department,to pallys since they have this amound of aggro by casting a travelling spell on secondary , third ,forth mob during pulls on the t= 0sec of the fight.
Now for the really idiotic question: What if some (clever?) ... puts 2 glyphs of GOD or GOS? what happends ? Zillions of Sunders?Nothing more that the effect of 1 GLyph?Anyone tried that? (LOLOLOLOLOLO)
Its no brainer...
all tanks should be equiped at least with G.O Devastate indipendently if it gives or not threat , indipendently if it stucks with G.O Sunder armor indipendently if the sunders go to whatever target. The fact that the next devastate landed on mob will be stronger (since 2 sunders have already been aplied by 1st devastate) is more than enough to put G.O. devastate in our favorite Glyphs.
Theory crafting for using Devastate as a AE ability:
Pre- pull:
mob1 mob2 mob3
warrior
(G.O.D+G.O.S)
The skull should be mob1 . 1st Devastate should be applied to mob 1( so that mobs 1 and 2 gets the S.A effect) and the next devastate on mob 3 ( so mob 3 and 2 gets devastates)
The 'Oh I ve nothing to do at work' part:
One thing I DO NOT UNDERSTAND : Why does the sunder armour effect is applied only to primary and ONE MORE target????
The really cool and LOGIC thing would be if the sunder armor effect was APPLIED to ALL our Targets!!!!!! Its not that hard BLizz.. since the real reason for putting These 2 toys was to dicrease the GAP between Warrs and Pallys on the crucial 1st second of a fight. Even if this request is made still we are inferior ,in this department,to pallys since they have this amound of aggro by casting a travelling spell on secondary , third ,forth mob during pulls on the t= 0sec of the fight.
Now for the really idiotic question: What if some (clever?) ... puts 2 glyphs of GOD or GOS? what happends ? Zillions of Sunders?Nothing more that the effect of 1 GLyph?Anyone tried that? (LOLOLOLOLOLO)
a glyph adding sunders to other targets is ofcause great for holding aggro on adds.. but i must say unless they changed the mechanics i dont adore the idea of a glyph for extra sunders on main targets much (im not saying it useless, just not great) since after it stacks to 5 it adds no aggro at all for the debuff itself. so basicly it builds aggro a bit faster but any fight where you dont loose aggro in the first 15 secs anyhow it would be useless. if they changed the mechanics i would love to hear it thou and will go buy this at once..
Buzak
Edited, Nov 26th 2008 4:23am by Buzak
Buzak
Edited, Nov 26th 2008 4:23am by Buzak
Yeap , basically if y can keep aggro (and most people who read forums can ...)then these toys 'R' us are useless...
So you can afford to take this little gadgets...
Glyph of Battle
Glyph of Rapid Charge
Glyph of Cleaving
Glyph of Resonating Power
Glyph of Charge
that will actually help either in pvp ,PVE...
So you can afford to take this little gadgets...
Glyph of Battle
Glyph of Rapid Charge
Glyph of Cleaving
Glyph of Resonating Power
Glyph of Charge
that will actually help either in pvp ,PVE...
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