Who likes AotBeast?Follow

First off, this is my first official post on these forums. I like to consider Huntercraft at work and Alla is the only site not blocked by lightspeed (damnit to filters, yea to access to these forums!) I have browsed the forums for quite some time now, just haven't been able to post (I may not be blocked from browsing, but I am from logging in ><)

Am I reading this wrong?

The equation for total attack power with Hawk:
0.22*(HAP+AotH) + PAP + AotH
*The AotH is the amount that the hunter recieves from the aspect. The rest of the equation relates to the pets attack power

From the original post, it looked like he was only posting on PET attack powers (I could be wrong, but the first and second equation are different) The second equation does consider AotH, but it adds it in again... not quite sure what he is getting at but being a Math teacher- I don't like it!

It should go something like:

.22(HAP + AotH) + PAP

so...

HAP = (.22AotH - .1PAP) / .022

Making other calculations incorrect... someone please correct me if I am wrong.



Edited, Nov 10th 2008 7:08pm by browningguns

It's not that simple. I'll spend some time looking at the math, but just right off the bat:

You can't treat AP as a simple dps gain. all our shots scale with AP differently so you have to figure out what shots you're using at what rate. You would have to do the same thing with the pet skills obviously. While it's an interesting idea to be sure, it's so complex it'll really have to be figured out with a spreadsheet.

Edited, Nov 10th 2008 7:03pm by Xsarus

I suppose that Cookie Cutter SV builds are going to be 7/*/* or 5/*/* again for highest DPS.

Not to mention multi, and the whole bunch of math that's going to go with Explosive.

Welcome to posting :)


Another Math teacher
You people are scary and your colleagues ruined math for me, I used to like it but 2 of them made me hate math.....


Would've been nice to be better at it now... but ah well.
I can understand what people are doing/trying to do but I don't know whether they are right or not.


As for which shots we're using, that will be chaining steady shots while keeping SS up for the additional 10% damage from steady Glyph.
And I'm pretty sure that that'll be it.

Don't know if Az is going to do the calculations, but I know Lactose was at least planning to do em.

Right, the modeling itself won't be super difficult, but it is important.

problem: He's adding his buffs whole scale, rather then only the difference. BoM would be there on either side of the equation, so most of it would cancel out. Only 10% of it should be considered.

Edited, Nov 11th 2008 9:17am by Xsarus

Don't rely on target dummy testing too much. It's horribly innacurate and once I thought about it, I figured out why.

First, the example:

I tested my 46/16/0 build against the common 50/11/0 build.

Against the dummies, the 50/11 build actually LOST dps versus the 46/16 I had running. Fully raid buffed, the 50/11 did about 20-30 dps better on average than the 46/16. I will say that the 50/11 is far more pet damage dependent. It is a dps loss in fights where you have to keep your pet back. Nearly all the dps gain was in the pet and a personal overall loss. The pet holds aggro intensely with 50/11, but I think the 46/16 would be a better solo build than 50/11.

There are a lot of reasons why the dummies are innacurate, but the biggest I find are this:

• You are unlikely to be fully buffed when testing. This means that the numbers just won't be there for the talents that rely on certain levels of AP, Agil, etc. to interoperate properly.

• The dummies do NOT lose health and cannot die. Therefore, hunter/pet talents that trigger on health levels and death will never trigger. You can't compare a build using those talents against one that doesn't. The one that doesn't will likely outperform the one that does against the dummies, the reverse may be true in your actual use of the build though.

• Raid dummies don't move or fight back. Therfore movement talents that allow you or your pet to intercept a moving target faster really just 'take up points', so you won't see any benefit in real combat, PvP or PvE. Using the dummies to test PvP builds is mostly worthless. Some value but nothing super practical.

Don't get me wrong, I like the dummies, they give a 'general feel' to a build and you can test crit triggers and percentages, but really, they have little practical use in combat. The best 50/11 got me against a dummy was 1100 dps. In a real Kara raid, I was running 1450-1500dps pretty consistently. The dummies were pretty far off.

@sloshot

I realize the validity in a lot of what you are saying, but on the other hand you have to get rid of such bias and delve deep to find the truth. Dummies are not interactive in any way, and thus you won't get true "real situation" DPS numbers. But they are a great base to get an idea of build, shot selection and pet DPS. You can't say that you will always do X DPS all the time, we all know this to be false.

S#%t happens, plain and simple- FD resist... eating floor. Dog jumps on your lap during a Teran fight and disconnects your keyboard and mouse- wonder who gets marked? A hunter pulls for the warrior who happens to be scarfing down his Dominoes pizza instead of taunting the mob from you.. repair bills. I mean with that type of reasoning then Cheeky's is a PoS also... NOT.

They are tools that help us try to maximize ourselves in the optimal setting, you know the good ol' days of tank and spank MC.... ahhh sweet memories. If you are concerned about raid buffs, have some guildies around. I realize you won't get all the nice buffage, but it will be a closer trial than by yourself. To get better you need to put in that extra effort in finding the Zen of Huntards.

You can't seriously expect to test cunning abilities of pets on dummies, like you said they don't lose health and don't die. Friends don't let friends DPS drunk.

In short, sorry about the huge block of text, I just don't want people who are trying to better themselves in the class to dismiss obvious tools in place to make them better. This will go a long way to rid our community of the cursed HUNTARD title (of which, I fully qualify!)

Werd, I have not tested that out yet.. gotta not use the first one I target and look around more!

Yea I know all the haxxorz... but could someone help me with hacking lightspeed so I can log onto these forums at work? lol

I actually said what you guys did in the last paragraph of my previous post. I realize you might not have gotten that far, as it was a long post.

I didn't know the Boss dummy lost health, never tested against it. Cool beans, gotta try that out. It is ?? level though so that will impact things.

Still, skills like Rapid Killing (clearly meant for high mob value fights) are useless in dummy testing, etc. As I said before, you can only get a 'general feel' for a build, and possibly test incomplete builds. (I didn't mention that previously, it's a toy for the wealthy toon.) If you are 'on the fence' regarding a set of talents and want to baseline compare them, you can if they aren't impacted by the dummies limitations (which I pointed out some of them). If they are, you can only test them in live combat.

So in the end, if you are dummy testing, you need to realize they are not a true combat test of your build and some of the talents that you may have that work against real foes, may not work against the dummies.

That's all I was getting at.

Not the math itself, but the teachers....
first I had one that lived in the same village as me, and I had to cycle past his house or drive a long way around (wich isnt fun to do if you're already ~10 miles from school) and he would comment on how late I got home every. single. class.

And the next year I got a teacher who was absolutely in love with homework, he gave us tons and tons to do and half of that I didnt do because a: the other half was the exact same stuff and b: I could do it all.
When I told him that in class, he asked me to prove it and if I could do it he wouldn't say anything.
I always managed to do it and he'd still kick me out of class...

Not that it was very surprising that he didn't expect anyone to be able to do the math because he was absolutely horrible at explaining anything whatsoever.

Best explanation he ever gave was "check your book".


And I live in Holland, and we don't have separate classes for geometry and algebra.

Anyways... go go!