So I finally took Paladin up past 22, which is now 24, but a Draenei(rather than BE).
My question is based on which stats are most important for PvE grinding. I saw two pair of pants last night, bought them both, and don't know which to wear.
First are +7spirit +7strength. Now this appeals to me greatly, as I took Priest to 49 and am wholly obsessed with Spirit. Plus, more MP/second = no drinking! Also, +7str is always nice.
The other are +7stamina +7strength. These give me 70hp, plus the 7str again.
It got me to thinking, as a Retadin who ONLY desires PvE, what's the stat order?
On Priest it's easy. Spirit > Int > anything else.
With Paladin I'm not sure how much Spirit/Vit I want or if I want to gun out on Str. I know I've survived a few fights with only 12hp so I do enjoy some Vit.
Any help would be appreciated.
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Spirit is worthless to a Paladin of any spec. Retribution you want STR, STA, AGI. You shouldn't be having many mana issues right now at 24, and if you do find yourself going OOM, use Blessing of Wisdom or Judgement of Wisdom in your rotation. However, you really shouldn't be having that problem right now.
CapJack wrote:
Spirit is worthless to a Paladin of any spec. Retribution you want STR, STA, AGI. You shouldn't be having many mana issues right now at 24, and if you do find yourself going OOM, use Blessing of Wisdom or Judgement of Wisdom in your rotation. However, you really shouldn't be having that problem right now.
Thanks :) I just hate any chance of OOM. I'm going with the STA/STR ones right now.
I've not been lucky in finding +AGI really, so right now I'm running with
2h Sword(gives +7str +7spr)
STR +50
AGI +6(lol :/)
STA +37
INT +2
SPR +19
1h/Shield(sword gives +2str/+2sta, Shield gives +4str +2sta)
STR +49
AGI +6
STA +41
INT +2
SPR +12
Well there's a big difference between Priest OOM and Paladin OOM. Paladin OOM you probably still have your seal up and your hits will still hit hard with your weapon, Priest OOM you have, what, a wand? Don't worry about it too much, with the changes to the seal/judgement system, Paladin's don't run out of mana nearly as fast as they used to while leveling.
AGI isn't as important while leveling, it's nice and all, but I would focus more on STR and STA, and if you happen to find a piece with AGI on it, and it seems like an upgrade, go for it.
Don't worry too much about your stats, follow the guidelines above. To crank out the most damage though, you want a nice heavy slow 2H weapon (3.5 or slower weapon speed). If you want to learn more, check out the FAQs (although they are a little outdated now, but they still work for the most part).
AGI isn't as important while leveling, it's nice and all, but I would focus more on STR and STA, and if you happen to find a piece with AGI on it, and it seems like an upgrade, go for it.
Don't worry too much about your stats, follow the guidelines above. To crank out the most damage though, you want a nice heavy slow 2H weapon (3.5 or slower weapon speed). If you want to learn more, check out the FAQs (although they are a little outdated now, but they still work for the most part).
CapJack wrote:
Well there's a big difference between Priest OOM and Paladin OOM. Paladin OOM you probably still have your seal up and your hits will still hit hard with your weapon, Priest OOM you have, what, a wand? Don't worry about it too much, with the changes to the seal/judgement system, Paladin's don't run out of mana nearly as fast as they used to while leveling.
AGI isn't as important while leveling, it's nice and all, but I would focus more on STR and STA, and if you happen to find a piece with AGI on it, and it seems like an upgrade, go for it.
Don't worry too much about your stats, follow the guidelines above. To crank out the most damage though, you want a nice heavy slow 2H weapon (3.5 or slower weapon speed). If you want to learn more, check out the FAQs (although they are a little outdated now, but they still work for the most part).
AGI isn't as important while leveling, it's nice and all, but I would focus more on STR and STA, and if you happen to find a piece with AGI on it, and it seems like an upgrade, go for it.
Don't worry too much about your stats, follow the guidelines above. To crank out the most damage though, you want a nice heavy slow 2H weapon (3.5 or slower weapon speed). If you want to learn more, check out the FAQs (although they are a little outdated now, but they still work for the most part).
Much thanks again! I read up on SoC(which I've been using since I started) but now I'm stuck on what to put my talents into. The guides are so outdated that the charts aren't even the same lol.
Right now I'm running with ALL 14 in Ret(with 1 spare) but it seems like the points are so worthless. Right now it seems like I should just pump Conviction until the next set, then Crusade and Sanctified Seals?
I'd love a good build for Ret now. I'm not sure if I should touch Holy or Prot at all. Again, this is 100% PvE only. I'm not big into raids/pvp and can always Respec if I decide to get into it :)
*edit*
This is me so far. Linky!
And again, i have 1 point sitting unused because I'm not sure what to do yet.
Edited, Nov 10th 2008 1:46pm by Belaneau
Most of the best talents are towards the bottom of the tree, just gotta keep on truckin til you get down there.
5 Points of Divine Strength from the Prot tree is essential for a Ret Paladin in my opinion. It is at the very start of the tree and only requires the 5 points. 10% extra strength will make you hit all that much harder.
Belaneau wrote:
This is me so far. Linky!
And again, i have 1 point sitting unused because I'm not sure what to do yet.
And again, i have 1 point sitting unused because I'm not sure what to do yet.
I'd suggest changing to this build to start. You'll lose Improved BoM, 1% parry, and PoJ, but you'll gain 6% crit over your current build. Go for any and all talents that increase % Crit or % Damage. These work together well, and add up faster than you would think. While there are a few points that could be moved around, something like this might work well for you at level 70.
jeromesimina wrote:
5 Points of Divine Strength from the Prot tree is essential for a Ret Paladin in my opinion. It is at the very start of the tree and only requires the 5 points. 10% extra strength will make you hit all that much harder.
yes, Divine Strength is a required talent.... after you get 51 points in Retribution. Leveling up you won't have strength for this to matter too much. Later in the game this is much more useful. Go up the Retribution tree till you get Divine Storm and then you can get Divine Strength next. After taht you can either fill in some morepoints in Ret (there's more than 51 that's useful for ret) or continue down prot for a little better survivability.
edit: what tabstopper wrote would be my recommendation for you for now too.
Edited, Nov 11th 2008 3:41pm by toolofjesus
tabstopper wrote:
Belaneau wrote:
This is me so far. Linky!
And again, i have 1 point sitting unused because I'm not sure what to do yet.
And again, i have 1 point sitting unused because I'm not sure what to do yet.
I'd suggest changing to this build to start. You'll lose Improved BoM, 1% parry, and PoJ, but you'll gain 6% crit over your current build. Go for any and all talents that increase % Crit or % Damage. These work together well, and add up faster than you would think. While there are a few points that could be moved around, something like this might work well for you at level 70.
Much appreciation for the talent advice, but is HotC really worth it over BoM? I figure because I'm more likely to be using BoW? I know +crit has diminishing returns in most games, is this one of them? I notice Pally has a LOT of +crit%.
HotC +3%
Conviction +4%
Sanctified Seals +3%(2% if you go with Crusade)
Fanaticism +25%? for Seals
So... how does that turn out looking?
Belaneau wrote:
Much appreciation for the talent advice, but is HotC really worth it over BoM?
Short: Yes.
Medium: Hell yeah.
Long: Ret Pally in general wants to stack crit as high as possible while maintaining acceptable +hit and stacking as much STR/AP as possible. Take every single +crit talent. At this stage of the game, +6% crit is ~+6% damage (eventually Ret scales slightly better than this with +Crit).
At your level, BoM adds 55 AP. With Improved Blessing of Might, this increases to 69 AP (+14 AP from talent). +14 AP is not worth giving up +2% crit.
Just don't worry about having too high of crit when leveling. It's not going to happen unless you do something stupid like prioritize +AGI gear over +STR gear (even then it would only be "too high" because you should have higher AP instead).
Eventually when gearing out a character, you have to make decisions about +AP/STR/CRIT/HASTE relative values, but even then you're usually going to take all of the talents you can get to boost those.
If you've played FFXI a lot, read up a bit on WoW damage mechanics. They're a bit different than what you're used to.
Have fun and enjoy WoW, and I hope that helps.
tabstopper wrote:
Belaneau wrote:
Much appreciation for the talent advice, but is HotC really worth it over BoM?
Short: Yes.
Medium: Hell yeah.
Long: Ret Pally in general wants to stack crit as high as possible while maintaining acceptable +hit and stacking as much STR/AP as possible. Take every single +crit talent. At this stage of the game, +6% crit is ~+6% damage (eventually Ret scales slightly better than this with +Crit).
At your level, BoM adds 55 AP. With Improved Blessing of Might, this increases to 69 AP (+14 AP from talent). +14 AP is not worth giving up +2% crit.
Just don't worry about having too high of crit when leveling. It's not going to happen unless you do something stupid like prioritize +AGI gear over +STR gear (even then it would only be "too high" because you should have higher AP instead).
Eventually when gearing out a character, you have to make decisions about +AP/STR/CRIT/HASTE relative values, but even then you're usually going to take all of the talents you can get to boost those.
If you've played FFXI a lot, read up a bit on WoW damage mechanics. They're a bit different than what you're used to.
Have fun and enjoy WoW, and I hope that helps.
So far I like it in every aspect more, except how insanely complicated it feels.
In FFXI, I knew everything about everything. In this one, I look at some of the gear and get a headache. All the sockets, +hit rating vs AP vs haste..
In FFXI it was so easy. Haste > Acc > Atk > Dex > Str lol. In this one, all the stats seem to matter!
*edit*
I noticed you picked Vengeance 3/3, would it be acceptable to do those almost last? I figured almost the exact same build as yours, but it doesn't show order of leveling. I currently am using 2 in Pursuit of Justice because it's just sooooo slow to run around everywhere and I have zero +movement things.
I figure...(order left to right)
5 Benediction(duh)
2 Improved Judgements | 3 HotC
1 Seal of Command | 2 Pursuit of Justice | 2 Conviction(for now)
3 Crusade(due to nonreliance on Crits) | 2 Sanctified Seals
1 Sanctified Retribution(that does increase my dmg by 3% right?) | 3 2H Specialization | 1 Sanctified Seals
2 Improved Ret Aura | 2 Conviction(now 5/5)
3 Judgement of the Wise | 1 Repentance | 1 Art of War
5 Fanaticism
1 Crusader Strike | 3 Swift Ret | 1 Sheath of Light(or should I 2/2 AoW?)
5 Righteous Vengeance
1 Divine Storm
that puts me at 60. I know I need to 5 Divine Strength, but when will those be worth it?
I know it varies slightly from yours, but I'm curious still on what works how :)
Edited, Nov 11th 2008 6:19pm by Belaneau
I've never been a huge fan of Pursuit of Justice for PVE, so I didn't include it in my build, but you could definitely play around with it.
Personally, I'd go with this build order for Ret, though there are more skilled Ret paladins on the boards and they might well disagree with me.
Unless of course, you're doing a weapon skill, in which case STR becomes VERY important, haste doesn't matter, you get most of your accuracy from using the correct Sea Gorget (you DID memorize that Vorpal Blade has a Scission element, right?), and ... it's really best to just carry an entire second set of gear to swap in mid-fight when you're about to do a Weapon Skill.
FFXI was IMO far more of a complicated system - pDIF (Attack vs. Defense), fSTR (STR vs VIT), accuracy caps, gear swapping macros for weapon skills ... it got ugly fast. /twitch
BACK TO WOW:
For most DPS classes, there are rough guidelines on what stats are most useful.
For Ret paladin while leveling:
You won't see much +hit, +crit, +AP, or +haste on your gear until Outlands.
Personally, I'd go with this build order for Ret, though there are more skilled Ret paladins on the boards and they might well disagree with me.
5/5 Benediction (lvl 14) 2/2 Improved Judgements 3/3 Heart of the Crusader |1/1 Seal of Command (lvl 20) 4/5 Conviction | 3/3 Crusade 3/3 Sanctified Seals | 1/1 Sanctified Retribution 3/3 2H Weapon Spec | 5/5 Conviction 3/3 Vengeance | 1/2 Improved Retribution Aura 1/1 Repentance (lvl 40) | 3/3 Judgements of the Wise 2/2 Art of War | 4/5 Fanaticism 1/1 Crusader Strike |3/3 Sheath of Light 3/3 Swift Retribution | 5/5 Fanaticism 2/2 Sanctified Wrath 1/1 Divine Storm (lvl 60) 5/5 Righteous Vengeance (lvl 65) |5/5 Divine Strength (lvl 70)
Belaneau wrote:
In FFXI it was so easy. Haste > Acc > Atk > Dex > Str lol. In this one, all the stats seem to matter!
Unless of course, you're doing a weapon skill, in which case STR becomes VERY important, haste doesn't matter, you get most of your accuracy from using the correct Sea Gorget (you DID memorize that Vorpal Blade has a Scission element, right?), and ... it's really best to just carry an entire second set of gear to swap in mid-fight when you're about to do a Weapon Skill.
FFXI was IMO far more of a complicated system - pDIF (Attack vs. Defense), fSTR (STR vs VIT), accuracy caps, gear swapping macros for weapon skills ... it got ugly fast. /twitch
BACK TO WOW:
For most DPS classes, there are rough guidelines on what stats are most useful.
For Ret paladin while leveling:
- Strength (+AP) - primary
- Stamina (+HP) - secondary
- Agility (+CRIT) - secondary
- Intellect (+MP) - tertiary
- Spirit - completely useless (seriously)
- Charisma - I've heard CHR makes hate decay more slowly. Srsly.
You won't see much +hit, +crit, +AP, or +haste on your gear until Outlands.
I lol'd at the Chr comment.
And yes, you did need to swap a LOT in FFXI, but it was so easy. Massive room, and 99% of all drops from anything, you just dropped lol. In WoW I only drop things if I -must- and I hate to do it. Plus, I knew how macros worked in FFXI lol. WoW still boggles my mind >.<
Thanks super much for the advice, if the servers come up before the expansion >.> I'll be playing a lot with it.
Much thanks :)
And yes, you did need to swap a LOT in FFXI, but it was so easy. Massive room, and 99% of all drops from anything, you just dropped lol. In WoW I only drop things if I -must- and I hate to do it. Plus, I knew how macros worked in FFXI lol. WoW still boggles my mind >.<
Thanks super much for the advice, if the servers come up before the expansion >.> I'll be playing a lot with it.
Much thanks :)
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