I have a few issues with some Pally abilities. I'm going to list them as well as provide a logical solution/alternative. This is mainly with regard to Ret.
1. JUDGEMENT OF JUSTICE. Currently, this is pretty lame. For PvE it's almost useless because when a mob flees he's pretty much dead anyway. When solo, HoW is pretty effective. For PvP it's usuable on about 1 1/2 to 2 classes. Druid are our main target. Shams and Rogues we use it situationally. The mount debuff is fun, but more trivial than anything(why is someone riding over you?).
SOLUTION: This NEEDS to be a snare! Making an enemy run as fast as you is NOT much of an ability. In order to make JoJ effective we need to talent to run faster(PoJ). A flat 25% speed reduction would solve this broken judgement. Mobs would be slowed. Enemies would be melee accessible, finally.
2. REPENTENCE. Long CD, medium range, and touchiness makes this spell usuable but much desired. Great functionallity as a combat sap. Nice as a spell interupt. However, 60s is too long to wait. Range is still susceptible to kiting. The stun mechanic is broken very easily and can be reflected or resisted.
SOLUTION: Duration reduced to 30s/6s. CD reduced to 30s. As a side effect, the silence mechanic of HoJ could be applied to Repentence instead(Debatable).
3. DIVINE STORM. I'm going to get flak here. This whole ability may be OP and also dangerous at the same time. In PvE, this is a low CD AoE with alot of punch. This is fantastic for AoE specific situations, similar to liberally using a Mage's Arc Explosion. However, this is also where it fails. Being on such a low CD it is threaded into every Ret dps rotation. This has created a paladin playstyle, full of burst dmg with low regard for surroundings and/or threat level.
At the current state of a level 70 Pally, DS is used as a main attack and is used in most situations. The obvious downside of using DS near a CC'd mob is clear and naturally the remedy is to stay clear of the CC. The bigger issue is when you have spawning mobs, multi-mobs, or just plain area dangers.
To put it into reference for everyone: Take the Illhoof fight. Max dmg is required for Kil'rek and Chains. The Pally would naturally want to use DS. The use of DS would certainly trigger the aggro of a number of Imps. This would cause the healers to move focus to the Pally from the Tank, OT, Warlock, and/or Chains...inviting a possible raid wipe. Now, this fight has since become trivial and pulling aggro DOES NOT equal a wipe. This has created The Godmode Paladin.
If we took the above example and applied lvl 80 difficulty, The Godmode Paladin would learn all too quickly that AoEing does have dire consequences. Blizzard seems to have the affinity to creating more dynamic fights(less tank n spank). This leads me to believe that lvl 80 will be full of stuff that you don't want to pull as a Ret Pally. Thus, we have been given a choice: lock out Divine Storm from our rotation on many fights(like we do consecration) OR risk pulling aggro for a 15-20% dps increase. Mages(et al) have the luxury of another attack when AoE is not called for, keeping their effectiveness on par.
SOLUTION: Very complicated, not sure if there truly is a solution. It could just be another severly underthought Pally ability. If I were to suggest a fix: raise the Divine Storm CD to 12s, maybe return the dmg back to Holy. Put the crit DoT on Crusader Strike instead. In essence, make DS a more situational ability and put more emphasis on an Auto/CS/Judge rotation. Yet, still leave it PvP friendly. Another idea is to make it single target(less likely).
4. I wont even touch the Avenging Wrath/Divine Shield debacle.
- Forums
- World of Warcraft
- Class Discussion
- Changes to consider
Changes to considerFollow
tommyguns wrote:
1. JUDGEMENT OF JUSTICE. Currently, this is pretty lame. For PvE it's almost useless because when a mob flees he's pretty much dead anyway. When solo, HoW is pretty effective. For PvP it's usuable on about 1 1/2 to 2 classes. Druid are our main target. Shams and Rogues we use it situationally. The mount debuff is fun, but more trivial than anything(why is someone riding over you?).
SOLUTION: This NEEDS to be a snare! Making an enemy run as fast as you is NOT much of an ability. In order to make JoJ effective we need to talent to run faster(PoJ). A flat 25% speed reduction would solve this broken judgement. Mobs would be slowed. Enemies would be melee accessible, finally.
It is a very good ability when you have PoJ as you've said, since you should catch up in no time. Admittedly though we do not have any reconnects for those classes that can get away fairly quickly, I.E. mages blinking and other ranged classes kiting. We have no intercept / deathgrip / lolstep ability to close that gap fast enough.
tommyguns wrote:
2. REPENTENCE. Long CD, medium range, and touchiness makes this spell usuable but much desired. Great functionallity as a combat sap. Nice as a spell interupt. However, 60s is too long to wait. Range is still susceptible to kiting. The stun mechanic is broken very easily and can be reflected or resisted.
SOLUTION: Duration reduced to 30s/6s. CD reduced to 30s. As a side effect, the silence mechanic of HoJ could be applied to Repentence instead(Debatable).
That just wouldn't work because people are already crying about our lockdown potential now if you change Rep to a 30s CD and 6s duration your looking at a ret pally with something like 0/20/51 build stunning you up to 3 times in one minute and then bursting on you for quite a bit on each stun. There's nothing most classes could do to reasonably counter that.
tommyguns wrote:
3. DIVINE STORM. I'm going to get flak here. This whole ability may be OP and also dangerous at the same time. In PvE, this is a low CD AoE with alot of punch. This is fantastic for AoE specific situations, similar to liberally using a Mage's Arc Explosion. However, this is also where it fails. Being on such a low CD it is threaded into every Ret dps rotation. This has created a paladin playstyle, full of burst dmg with low regard for surroundings and/or threat level.
At the current state of a level 70 Pally, DS is used as a main attack and is used in most situations. The obvious downside of using DS near a CC'd mob is clear and naturally the remedy is to stay clear of the CC. The bigger issue is when you have spawning mobs, multi-mobs, or just plain area dangers.
To put it into reference for everyone: Take the Illhoof fight. Max dmg is required for Kil'rek and Chains. The Pally would naturally want to use DS. The use of DS would certainly trigger the aggro of a number of Imps. This would cause the healers to move focus to the Pally from the Tank, OT, Warlock, and/or Chains...inviting a possible raid wipe. Now, this fight has since become trivial and pulling aggro DOES NOT equal a wipe. This has created The Godmode Paladin.
If we took the above example and applied lvl 80 difficulty, The Godmode Paladin would learn all too quickly that AoEing does have dire consequences. Blizzard seems to have the affinity to creating more dynamic fights(less tank n spank). This leads me to believe that lvl 80 will be full of stuff that you don't want to pull as a Ret Pally. Thus, we have been given a choice: lock out Divine Storm from our rotation on many fights(like we do consecration) OR risk pulling aggro for a 15-20% dps increase. Mages(et al) have the luxury of another attack when AoE is not called for, keeping their effectiveness on par.
SOLUTION: Very complicated, not sure if there truly is a solution. It could just be another severly underthought Pally ability. If I were to suggest a fix: raise the Divine Storm CD to 12s, maybe return the dmg back to Holy. Put the crit DoT on Crusader Strike instead. In essence, make DS a more situational ability and put more emphasis on an Auto/CS/Judge rotation. Yet, still leave it PvP friendly. Another idea is to make it single target(less likely).
4. I wont even touch the Avenging Wrath/Divine Shield debacle.
That's just ******* stupid. It's not blizzards fault that most paladins are too retarded to realize that DS will hit nearby CC'd mobs. I mean warriors have effectively been using whirlwind in CC situations for what 5 years now and DS is just a WW knockoff. Seriously if you break CC with DS and pull aggro your dumb *** deserves to die because you don't know how far it goes? If your not sure DON'T ******* DO IT.
tommyguns wrote:
3. DIVINE STORM. I'm going to get flak here. This whole ability may be OP and also dangerous at the same time. In PvE, this is a low CD AoE with alot of punch. This is fantastic for AoE specific situations, similar to liberally using a Mage's Arc Explosion. However, this is also where it fails. Being on such a low CD it is threaded into every Ret dps rotation. This has created a paladin playstyle, full of burst dmg with low regard for surroundings and/or threat level.
DS is not "similar to Arcane Explosion," Divine Storm is similar to Whirlwind. The range is identical (8 yards), the cooldown is identical (10 seconds), the # of targets affected is identical (4 targets), and it's part of the respective spec's (Ret & Fury Warrior) basic DPS rotation.
You aren't dealing with any limitations that Fury Warriors haven't been dealing with for all of TBC. Even the "problem" of Righteous Vengeance's DoT is the same one that Fury Warriors face from Deep Wounds.
It's a basic part of a Ret Paladin's job to watch the surroundings and make sure it's safe to let any AoE DPS fly. This is no harder than a Fury Warrior doing the same, a Shaman knowing to be careful with his Damage totems, or a Warlock/SP knowing not to tab-DoT every target when some are marked for CC.
tommyguns wrote:
SOLUTION: Very complicated, not sure if there truly is a solution
SOLUTION: Retribution Paladins learn to pay attention to their surroundings and manage their abilities.
LONGER SOLUTION: Ret Paladins (like Fury Warriors) will have their DPS be lower if the tank is standing near CCed mobs. Unlike Fury Warriors, Ret Paladins bring limited CC, Cleanse, and Healing to the table regardless of whether they're able to use a top DPS rotation. I fail to see a problem.
I don't pretend to know if the Paladin nerfs (especially the DS nerf) will be too much when players reach level 80. But I do know that Paladins will be able to function just fine with DS in its current form (not talking about dmg, just the "4 targets in 8 yards every 10 seconds") if they and their group are at all competent.
tommyguns wrote:
I have a few issues with some Pally abilities. I'm going to list them as well as provide a logical solution/alternative. This is mainly with regard to Ret.
1. JUDGEMENT OF JUSTICE. Currently, this is pretty lame. For PvE it's almost useless because when a mob flees he's pretty much dead anyway. When solo, HoW is pretty effective. For PvP it's usuable on about 1 1/2 to 2 classes. Druid are our main target. Shams and Rogues we use it situationally. The mount debuff is fun, but more trivial than anything(why is someone riding over you?).
SOLUTION: This NEEDS to be a snare! Making an enemy run as fast as you is NOT much of an ability. In order to make JoJ effective we need to talent to run faster(PoJ). A flat 25% speed reduction would solve this broken judgement. Mobs would be slowed. Enemies would be melee accessible, finally.
1. JUDGEMENT OF JUSTICE. Currently, this is pretty lame. For PvE it's almost useless because when a mob flees he's pretty much dead anyway. When solo, HoW is pretty effective. For PvP it's usuable on about 1 1/2 to 2 classes. Druid are our main target. Shams and Rogues we use it situationally. The mount debuff is fun, but more trivial than anything(why is someone riding over you?).
SOLUTION: This NEEDS to be a snare! Making an enemy run as fast as you is NOT much of an ability. In order to make JoJ effective we need to talent to run faster(PoJ). A flat 25% speed reduction would solve this broken judgement. Mobs would be slowed. Enemies would be melee accessible, finally.
this would be nice. however, considering pallies are still considered to be strong in PVP I seriously doubt we'd get a snare that could be kept up 100% of the time.
tommyguns wrote:
2. REPENTENCE. Long CD, medium range, and touchiness makes this spell usuable but much desired. Great functionallity as a combat sap. Nice as a spell interupt. However, 60s is too long to wait. Range is still susceptible to kiting. The stun mechanic is broken very easily and can be reflected or resisted.
SOLUTION: Duration reduced to 30s/6s. CD reduced to 30s. As a side effect, the silence mechanic of HoJ could be applied to Repentence instead(Debatable).
SOLUTION: Duration reduced to 30s/6s. CD reduced to 30s. As a side effect, the silence mechanic of HoJ could be applied to Repentence instead(Debatable).
I don't know. I did H-MgT the other day with 2 ret pallies for CC. we both were very successful at keeping CC up whenever it was marked. the only downside I have with it is the range. there is no way to repent mobs until combat starts since most mobs that need to be CC'd have aggro ranges more than 20 yards. I have a hunter also but find repentance already to be more useful for CC than ice traps. if anything increasing the PVE range to 30 or 40 yards would be nice while keeping a shorter pvp range.
tommyguns wrote:
3. DIVINE STORM. I'm going to get flak here. This whole ability may be OP and also dangerous at the same time. In PvE, this is a low CD AoE with alot of punch. This is fantastic for AoE specific situations, similar to liberally using a Mage's Arc Explosion. However, this is also where it fails. Being on such a low CD it is threaded into every Ret dps rotation. This has created a paladin playstyle, full of burst dmg with low regard for surroundings and/or threat level.
At the current state of a level 70 Pally, DS is used as a main attack and is used in most situations. The obvious downside of using DS near a CC'd mob is clear and naturally the remedy is to stay clear of the CC. The bigger issue is when you have spawning mobs, multi-mobs, or just plain area dangers.
To put it into reference for everyone: Take the Illhoof fight. Max dmg is required for Kil'rek and Chains. The Pally would naturally want to use DS. The use of DS would certainly trigger the aggro of a number of Imps. This would cause the healers to move focus to the Pally from the Tank, OT, Warlock, and/or Chains...inviting a possible raid wipe. Now, this fight has since become trivial and pulling aggro DOES NOT equal a wipe. This has created The Godmode Paladin.
If we took the above example and applied lvl 80 difficulty, The Godmode Paladin would learn all too quickly that AoEing does have dire consequences. Blizzard seems to have the affinity to creating more dynamic fights(less tank n spank). This leads me to believe that lvl 80 will be full of stuff that you don't want to pull as a Ret Pally. Thus, we have been given a choice: lock out Divine Storm from our rotation on many fights(like we do consecration) OR risk pulling aggro for a 15-20% dps increase. Mages(et al) have the luxury of another attack when AoE is not called for, keeping their effectiveness on par.
SOLUTION: Very complicated, not sure if there truly is a solution. It could just be another severly underthought Pally ability. If I were to suggest a fix: raise the Divine Storm CD to 12s, maybe return the dmg back to Holy. Put the crit DoT on Crusader Strike instead. In essence, make DS a more situational ability and put more emphasis on an Auto/CS/Judge rotation. Yet, still leave it PvP friendly. Another idea is to make it single target(less likely).
At the current state of a level 70 Pally, DS is used as a main attack and is used in most situations. The obvious downside of using DS near a CC'd mob is clear and naturally the remedy is to stay clear of the CC. The bigger issue is when you have spawning mobs, multi-mobs, or just plain area dangers.
To put it into reference for everyone: Take the Illhoof fight. Max dmg is required for Kil'rek and Chains. The Pally would naturally want to use DS. The use of DS would certainly trigger the aggro of a number of Imps. This would cause the healers to move focus to the Pally from the Tank, OT, Warlock, and/or Chains...inviting a possible raid wipe. Now, this fight has since become trivial and pulling aggro DOES NOT equal a wipe. This has created The Godmode Paladin.
If we took the above example and applied lvl 80 difficulty, The Godmode Paladin would learn all too quickly that AoEing does have dire consequences. Blizzard seems to have the affinity to creating more dynamic fights(less tank n spank). This leads me to believe that lvl 80 will be full of stuff that you don't want to pull as a Ret Pally. Thus, we have been given a choice: lock out Divine Storm from our rotation on many fights(like we do consecration) OR risk pulling aggro for a 15-20% dps increase. Mages(et al) have the luxury of another attack when AoE is not called for, keeping their effectiveness on par.
SOLUTION: Very complicated, not sure if there truly is a solution. It could just be another severly underthought Pally ability. If I were to suggest a fix: raise the Divine Storm CD to 12s, maybe return the dmg back to Holy. Put the crit DoT on Crusader Strike instead. In essence, make DS a more situational ability and put more emphasis on an Auto/CS/Judge rotation. Yet, still leave it PvP friendly. Another idea is to make it single target(less likely).
um, while I would love a more mana efficient attack to replace DS in one target situations or where there's nearby CC, I don't think this is really a problem. changing this up would just be to give us more variety. most of the time its not too hard positioning on the opposite side from the CC to be able to use DS w/o breaking anything. I think since the patch i've broken cc a few times with this but even though I play my ret pally about 3 times as much as I play my hunter i've broken CC with simply hitting Steadyshot right as a mob dies and auto target targeting a CC'd mob or even a mob in a nearby group 10 times as much as I have using DS on my Pally. i've only never yet caused a wipe or even a death by breaking CC with DS. there have been times that my dps has been lower because CC has just been too close, so an attack that did the same effect w/o the aoe would be nice if blizz was in a generous mood. i'm just not expecting it.
just a thought though about this... at 80 not breaking CC while we're first learning end game raids will be important i'm sure. this is where ret dps will take a hit i'm sure due to not always being able to use DS. yes a full naxx geared group won't have issues in 80 heroics, but they will need to be careful in T8 content when it comes out. this will be an issue when max dps really matters not when groups are so OP that this doesn't matter.
Quote:
To put it into reference for everyone: Take the Illhoof fight. Max dmg is required for Kil'rek and Chains. The Pally would naturally want to use DS. The use of DS would certainly trigger the aggro of a number of Imps. This would cause the healers to move focus to the Pally from the Tank, OT, Warlock, and/or Chains...inviting a possible raid wipe. Now, this fight has since become trivial and pulling aggro DOES NOT equal a wipe. This has created The Godmode Paladin.
As in kara illhoof? Really? Why CC the imps again? >.> I've never had to CC the imps on any run I can think of. And DPS war have whirlwind issue as well I guess. You could idk, move to the far side of illhoof to use your storm and not use it on the chains because they usually go down quick enough the cooldown won't even come up anyway.
Seriously your making a huge deal out of a spell that is easy to keep under control if you just pay attention, as well as something that dps warriors have been dealing with since, well forever. Not to mention ret pallies have been using Consecrate for like...forever its really not a big deal at all.
wow, u guys took 10% of the whole argument and ran with it. DS around CC is certainly a pain. the more important aspect of the ability is as i said:
obviously breaking CC is an issue for a noob, there is no debate there. the illustration of the Illhoof fight shows that CC is not the only problem with adding a MAIN ATTACK that causes mass dmg to multiple targets.
check out wowwebstats and find the pallies that have topped the dmg meters in "easymode" wow. you will notice in many cases they have taken large portions of dmg/healing in direct correlation to pulling aggro...this is seen even more in fights where aoe is guaranteed to attract mob attention: like fighting Illhoof.
i just make this Divine Storm argument as a warning to the consequences of a high-threat, high-dmg aoe-like ability as a main attack. i personally would rather have a single target ability to fill the rotation void that DS attempts to fill. we'll let lvl 80 tell the true tale...see you there.
i never said or suggested CCing the imps. L2Read.
Quote:
The bigger issue is when you have spawning mobs, multi-mobs, or just plain area dangers.
obviously breaking CC is an issue for a noob, there is no debate there. the illustration of the Illhoof fight shows that CC is not the only problem with adding a MAIN ATTACK that causes mass dmg to multiple targets.
check out wowwebstats and find the pallies that have topped the dmg meters in "easymode" wow. you will notice in many cases they have taken large portions of dmg/healing in direct correlation to pulling aggro...this is seen even more in fights where aoe is guaranteed to attract mob attention: like fighting Illhoof.
i just make this Divine Storm argument as a warning to the consequences of a high-threat, high-dmg aoe-like ability as a main attack. i personally would rather have a single target ability to fill the rotation void that DS attempts to fill. we'll let lvl 80 tell the true tale...see you there.
Quote:
As in kara illhoof? Really? Why CC the imps again? >.> I've never had to CC the imps on any run I can think of.
i never said or suggested CCing the imps. L2Read.
Whoops I took when you said warlock to mean you were banishing. My bad, main point is still valid there is little reason for DS to be a problem its not particularly high aggro, thunderclap easily overtakes it in threat. I don't see the issue with it, but then again I haven't ever had to overly heal a ret in raids so maybe I just run with more competent ret (than your pick up ret), I have little experience with it myself save reting in 5 mans.
I think this is silly. Suggesting changes to class mechanics less than a month after the patch the introduced them/brought them to the forefront is ridiculous. We just got nerfed to hell to bring us in line with other classes in both PvE dps and PvP...there is no way in hell we'll be seeing PvP tweaks to the benefit of ret pallies any time soon.
As for Repentance, I don't see any changes coming any time there, either. How long did enhancement shaman go with no ranged snare/root/incapacitate at all (do they even have one now?) yet a stun, a sleep, and a bubble isn't good enough for ret pallies? Sorry...barking up the wrong tree on that one.
And Divine Storm...please. You can do better. Divine Storm AoE threat causing problems? Wow...ret pallies have to actually think and apply abilities appropriately...sounds like so many other dps classes. No need to try and nerf stupidity...it'll never work.
As for Repentance, I don't see any changes coming any time there, either. How long did enhancement shaman go with no ranged snare/root/incapacitate at all (do they even have one now?) yet a stun, a sleep, and a bubble isn't good enough for ret pallies? Sorry...barking up the wrong tree on that one.
And Divine Storm...please. You can do better. Divine Storm AoE threat causing problems? Wow...ret pallies have to actually think and apply abilities appropriately...sounds like so many other dps classes. No need to try and nerf stupidity...it'll never work.
There is really no threat issue presented by Divine Storm that is not already presented to warriors with Whirlwind and Bladestorm. Controlling our AoE threat is just something we'll have to do. It may impact on our DPS, but only in fights where AoE threat is sensitive, in the same way that high mobility fights impact on rogue DPS because they just aren't in melee range all the time.
It really sounds like a situational issue and not one that the tanks can't learn to work with. We should be looking at "Is holding back on DS hurting the group?" rather than "Is holding back on DS hurting my DPS?"
It really sounds like a situational issue and not one that the tanks can't learn to work with. We should be looking at "Is holding back on DS hurting the group?" rather than "Is holding back on DS hurting my DPS?"
With improvements to multimob tanking, DS threat is not a problem at all unless you outgear the tank, or drop DS too soon. If you DO pull aggro off a DS, there is bubble and hand of salv to adjust.
if JoJ was a snare, it would not work on druids, not something i want to give up.
1. I've always considered Justice to be pretty lame, but in runner/Adds situations it's got it's value.
2. No Comment - I don't PVP and I'm not sure how you could turn this into a PVE in-combat-version of SAP, without making it OP in PVP.
3. If you don't know how to maintain agro or not break CC, you'll learn. Go play mage and do it in cloth armor. You'll learn.
2. No Comment - I don't PVP and I'm not sure how you could turn this into a PVE in-combat-version of SAP, without making it OP in PVP.
3. If you don't know how to maintain agro or not break CC, you'll learn. Go play mage and do it in cloth armor. You'll learn.
Eh, I agree that we need some way to get back at ranged targets. If I've used up my repentance there's no way in hell I can beat a hunter that half knows what he's doing. One disengage and I might as well take a stretch because I'm dead.
The problem is hunters just have too many escapes. Anything that gets enough range to get a shot off, and I'm slowed and can't get to him. Whether that's frost trap, their slow shot, wing clip+FD+run away, etc.
The other problem is that if my abilities are all ready, the hunter is dead, basically no matter what.
How do you balance something like that? Is it balance that the paladin will always beat the hunter ever few minutes and the hunter will most always beat the paladin the rest of the time?
So yeah, if we had a snare for ranged, that would be nice.
I don't think Divine Storm needs changed, people just need to be aware of their surroundings. And yeah, the imps on illhoof? Everyone's dpsing them like nuts, I'm lucky if my divine storm pulls their aggro. If you're wiping on Illhoof, you might want to go finish leveling to 70. I can't see it happening any other way.
The problem is hunters just have too many escapes. Anything that gets enough range to get a shot off, and I'm slowed and can't get to him. Whether that's frost trap, their slow shot, wing clip+FD+run away, etc.
The other problem is that if my abilities are all ready, the hunter is dead, basically no matter what.
How do you balance something like that? Is it balance that the paladin will always beat the hunter ever few minutes and the hunter will most always beat the paladin the rest of the time?
So yeah, if we had a snare for ranged, that would be nice.
I don't think Divine Storm needs changed, people just need to be aware of their surroundings. And yeah, the imps on illhoof? Everyone's dpsing them like nuts, I'm lucky if my divine storm pulls their aggro. If you're wiping on Illhoof, you might want to go finish leveling to 70. I can't see it happening any other way.
tommy's presented a perfectly logical argument, so there's no need to get even remotely snippy about this. Personally, I have to disagree with all of it (and everyone else in opposition has raised the reasonable points I would have, so I need not comment further), but still, he's entitled to speculation if nothing else.
Play nice, children.
Play nice, children.
my suggestions about Repentence and JoJ are due to the fact that Ret is not finished taking the initial proposed nerfs. nor have we been given the mysterious 11th-point Prot talent yet, which one would figure to be either a Charge(creative) or another type of capture(Chains of Justice) similar to DKs Deathgrip.
oh well, i'd rather see Blizzard fix the mechanic bugs rather than tweak gameplay. i acquired 2 stacks of Vengeance from being hit by a lvl 5 NPC while i was riding around exploring.
oh well, i'd rather see Blizzard fix the mechanic bugs rather than tweak gameplay. i acquired 2 stacks of Vengeance from being hit by a lvl 5 NPC while i was riding around exploring.
Have to agree with Gaudion, while the suggestions are creative they open whole new wormcans of their own.
JoJ becoming a snare; this means it will be cleared by any effect that currently removes Snares, like Sprint/form shift which in BGs are the very mechanics I employ the Judgement to counteract. I don't really care if closing distance is difficult, if I'm in Judgement range I'm already close to melee range. What I hate are shifting Druids and Rogues blazing around, and lately Shamans using their Spirit Walk. JoJ is a perfect counter to this, and is unique in its persistence through snare-clearing effects.
Divine Storm increase to 12sec CD will require an increase in max damage, increasing Paladin burst, not something we really need. If I had to make a change to Divine Storm I'd make it Holy damage again so its unaffected by Dodge/Block/Parry, and simply give it a reduced threat coefficient.
JoJ becoming a snare; this means it will be cleared by any effect that currently removes Snares, like Sprint/form shift which in BGs are the very mechanics I employ the Judgement to counteract. I don't really care if closing distance is difficult, if I'm in Judgement range I'm already close to melee range. What I hate are shifting Druids and Rogues blazing around, and lately Shamans using their Spirit Walk. JoJ is a perfect counter to this, and is unique in its persistence through snare-clearing effects.
Divine Storm increase to 12sec CD will require an increase in max damage, increasing Paladin burst, not something we really need. If I had to make a change to Divine Storm I'd make it Holy damage again so its unaffected by Dodge/Block/Parry, and simply give it a reduced threat coefficient.
Recent Visitors: 188
All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (188)
- Forums
- World of Warcraft
- Class Discussion
- Changes to consider
© 2024 Fanbyte LLC