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Kodohide Healing gear at 80Follow

#1 Nov 09 2008 at 9:16 AM Rating: Good
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Maybe I missed something about a change to the spirit stat and how it relates to druids, but if I didn't, I found something that has me more than slightly concerned.. Nay, agitated.

I was browsing mmo-champion and caught a glimpse of the new 80 pvp gear available to each class and I got excited because I really liked the way they were doing it this time with rating requirements for all pieces and decent honor gear to start with... but I noticed that the healing gear for druids has Spirit on it and ZERO mana/5 regen. How exactly is that going to work?

I know spirit helps with innervate, and very minorly with actual healing power, but I can't ever remember a time in open pvp/battlegrounds/arena that I was out of the 5 seconds no casting time (for spirit regen to kick in) for more than one or two seconds at a time, and if I ever was, oh hey sit and drink.

I looked at the shaman gear and it's littered with mana/5 and I'd far prefer that to spirit. Anyone else feel the same way or did I miss something?

Here is the gear
#2 Nov 09 2008 at 11:10 AM Rating: Good
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Spirit is actually better for mana regen than mp5 for druids. Especially if you're going to be resto. All that spirit will give people a reason to finally spec 3/3 into Living Spirit and people are going to be getting mana back even faster.

Hell, when I was resto with just around 600 spirit pre patch I never ever ran out of mana because of my spirit being so ungodly high.

But, on a side note. Blizzard has made it possible to wear pvp gear for resto end game at 80.
#3 Nov 09 2008 at 1:00 PM Rating: Decent
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so it's 227 spirit on the 5 body pieces of the epic pvp gear, 30% of that is all you keep while casting. What's the math on how much mp/5 that actually is?
#4 Nov 09 2008 at 1:08 PM Rating: Decent
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Something else is wrong with it though. If at some point you decide to switch from Resto to Balance or the other way around, you'll find yourself in need of new gear. There is no spirit on the Wyrmhide stuff, and unless you spec into Intensity, the spirit on the Kodohide is more or less wasted for a Moonkin.
#5 Nov 09 2008 at 5:58 PM Rating: Decent
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Not totally wasted, Moonkin get increased damage from spirit with Imp Moonkin form (I think. There's definetly a talent that does)
#6 Nov 11 2008 at 12:33 PM Rating: Decent
Quote:
so it's 227 spirit on the 5 body pieces of the epic pvp gear, 30% of that is all you keep while casting. What's the math on how much mp/5 that actually is?


Sadly there doesn't seem to be any easy answer -

http://www.wowwiki.com/Spirit

But if I'm reading the article right, spirit contributes far more towards MP5 then INT does so this may be advantageous for you non-ferals.

Let's say that the gear all had 10 mp5 for a grand total of 50 - compare that to the 30% of 500 mp5 that having 390 spirit and 750 INT would give.

So what's easier - scoring an additional 163 spirit or finding 50 mp5 from other slots? (I honestly don't know - I'm a committed feral and use more mana shapeshifting then spell casting.)
#7 Nov 11 2008 at 1:40 PM Rating: Good
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Can you link to descriptions of how to get said lvl 80 gear? I'm curious what honor/ratings are required for what pieces. (And, shudder, with a feral druid and an enhance/resto shaman as my two mains, I will probably never be able to get a high enough rating to wear any of it.)
#8 Nov 11 2008 at 4:32 PM Rating: Decent
you miss the point of some of the resto talents.

With the changes and new talents, they are making TREE form very viable in arenas.

With talents you can get 100% increase in your armor in tree form, and tree form also gives a bonus BASED ON SPIRIT to your healing. Mp5 gives no bonus other than mp5.

If you examine your talent tree carefully, you will see what I am pointing out.
#9 Nov 12 2008 at 11:36 AM Rating: Decent
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Well, realize that we're not always going to be in tree form, especially against warlocks. And you know full well that the changes aren't going to enable us to just "stand and take it" against melee dps classes.

I'm trying to figure out this chart and it's technical, but it seems with 750~ish INT and 400+ Spirit (very attainable), that's over 400 mp/5 not casting, or around 125~ish mp/5 with intensity. Which is a lot better than I figured it would be.
#10 Nov 12 2008 at 7:08 PM Rating: Good
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Above all, with the mp5/spirit debate. Resto now has a viable way to utilize innervate w/o having to sub in the often used Bangle of Endless Blessings for more spirit. So this gear potentially opens up a trinket slot, gives you mp5, more healing and a much better use of innervate.

Kanngarix wrote:
If at some point you decide to switch from Resto to Balance or the other way around, you'll find yourself in need of new gear.


I think blizzard intended there to be separate sets for resto and balance. Not only by the 4 set bonuses, but by the fact if you had feral level 80 gear you wouldnt be using it for resto or balance, and vice versa.

As for the whole pvp thing in tree form, with the removal of the speed decrease, and the increase in armor when you talent Imp ToL it does make being in tree form very viable for pvp. But I still think it's going to be hard for all the resto pvpers to change from being in caster form to being in tree. For me it's just awkward as hell knowing that I have a big sign above me that says "I heal, so please kill me first." But like people have stated against warlocks banish is a nasty nasty cc to deal with as tree, so you pretty much have to decide what you're going to do in arenas if you get up against a lock. Take that risk, or stay in tree form with better mana conservation and more armor.
#11 Nov 14 2008 at 3:41 AM Rating: Good
if you're so obsessed with pvp that you never consider pve applications of stats, why are you even holding this conversation concerning mana regen?

with the possible exception of feral, spirit is better mana regen for both balance and resto druids. how much better depends on your int. suffice to say, you need pretty low int before it starts to break even. considering that all caster gear has some int on it, it's pretty unlikely that you'll ever see a stat mix on leather caster gear that makes mp/5 even modestly attractive. moonkin and treeform cement spirit's place in your stat block. leave the mp/5 trash for pallies and shammies.

try reading through some of the articles on R4L. there's one from 2.4 but it's still relevant.

http://www.resto4life.com/2008/04/19/24-mana-regeneration-part-3-valuing-healing/

in particular, the graph in this article:

http://www.resto4life.com/2008/03/16/24-mana-regen-part-2-the-mana-regen-calculator/

pvp is the only place i can imagine an 8 minute fight.
#12 Nov 17 2008 at 1:27 PM Rating: Decent
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1,233 posts
Quote:
if you're so obsessed with pvp that you never consider pve applications of stats, why are you even holding this conversation concerning mana regen?

with the possible exception of feral, spirit is better mana regen for both balance and resto druids. how much better depends on your int. suffice to say, you need pretty low int before it starts to break even. considering that all caster gear has some int on it, it's pretty unlikely that you'll ever see a stat mix on leather caster gear that makes mp/5 even modestly attractive. moonkin and treeform cement spirit's place in your stat block. leave the mp/5 trash for pallies and shammies.


Well mostly it's because I don't care about the PvE application of the stats on this gear. It is PvP oriented gear you obtain from PvP to use in PvP. I was curious about how the mana regen on it worked and I was unsure how all druid mana regen worked for a couple reasons~

My old main was a Shaman, PvP & Raiding as both Resto and Elemental, Leveled as Enhance. I knew a lot about the class mechanics and strengths and weaknesses of the class. I wasn't "elite" by any means but I enjoyed learning about the class and how it reacted differently to gear. The same way I'm now curious about druid gear because now I only play the one druid character. As a Shaman, before they beefed up water shield and mana spring totem in patch 2.3(ish), mp/5 and mana regen was a monumental concern for raiding, and if you didn't have over 120mp/5 (before buffs) you weren't going to last a 5 minute boss fight, let alone a 20 minute arena match.

My Alliance druid had the first season arena gear after it switched to honor, all of that gear was laced with mp/5 and not spirit. I actually had more mp/5 in pvp with the druid than I did on the Shaman and it was easier for me to maintain (it's a lot harder for a bad player to notice the innervate buff on than a totem that pulses with a huge blue flash) plus shadowmeld etc.

But I had just noticed that the 80 gear was completely lacking that stat so I had never had to find out how spirit worked because it was completely useless to a Shaman.

Figured it would be better for me to ask now, then to buy the gear and noob it up til I figured it out.

What I still don't get is why you and others keep saying that mp/5 is trash.
#13 Nov 17 2008 at 4:05 PM Rating: Good
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MP5 is not trash, Spirit is just better. By a significant margin. It gives both mana regen and +spell power via talents.

All restos take Intensity and now will take Living Spirit and other tree goodies for Arena. Thus it leads to spirit being king for regen.

Also if you compare the sets the main differences are in spell buffs and set bonuses; as they have different spells. The mp5 on shaman gear has been replaced by spirit on the druid and priest gear and pallies get spell crit.

Pallies get crit as they get mana returns on crits. Shammies need raw mp5 as they don't have spirit or crit based mana bonuses. Priests have a similar talent to resto druids.

The healing classes all have talents to support the benefits of each stat they get on their PvP sets. Stylistic differences result in different stats having different weights for each class.
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