Could someone please explain why Cyclone has a diminishing return in PVE?
I completely understand the idea that each class needs limitations, and crowd control is limited in some situations to make instances more interesting. But, the spell itself is already limited, by being so short. It's actually shorter in duration than Fear and Polymorph, which works on almost as many targets, yet they only have a diminishing return in PVP.
I'd like to suggest the following potential fixes, assuming the equal PVE and PVP diminishing returns are to prevent being over-powered:
Significantly increase the mana spent.
Increase the duration to 10 seconds.
Internal cool-down (6-8 seconds).
Works with the "stun" mechanic, so stun resistance and breaking effects apply.
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it has DR because then you could keep two targets CC'ed almost indefinetely, and currently the only class that can do that (after a fashion) is a warlock. but it requires a specific pet and no small amount of babysitting in order to ensure the second CC'ed mob doesnt bring adds. in short, the ability to CC two things at once comes at the cost of completely or almost completely removing the warlock from the fight equation as far as anything but CC is concerned.
as for your suggestions, you dont want it on the stun timer. that would put it on the same DR as bash, charge, intercept, hammer of justice, pounce, cheap shot, and war stomp, which would be very, very, very bad (killing the usefulness of the skill bad).
as for your suggestions, you dont want it on the stun timer. that would put it on the same DR as bash, charge, intercept, hammer of justice, pounce, cheap shot, and war stomp, which would be very, very, very bad (killing the usefulness of the skill bad).
I can crowd control three things at once, as a warlock. And, druids can too, with allowing Roots to work indoors. Why not put a diminishing return on Seduction or Banish, in PVE?
For me, the major difference is that warlocks can do their thing, and not lose as much DPS. I can pick-at a feared target, while keeping something banished or seduced, and not have as much difficulty as if I had to keep just one target cycloned.
This is why I think an internal cool-down or increasing the spell cost might address the kind of situation you mentioned.
Edited, Nov 7th 2008 10:27pm by sederix
For me, the major difference is that warlocks can do their thing, and not lose as much DPS. I can pick-at a feared target, while keeping something banished or seduced, and not have as much difficulty as if I had to keep just one target cycloned.
This is why I think an internal cool-down or increasing the spell cost might address the kind of situation you mentioned.
Edited, Nov 7th 2008 10:27pm by sederix
uh, no, for a warlock to CC two things (banish doesnt count as its too specific to be generally available) it requires enough concentration that the warlocks DPS is reduced by a good 80-90%. yo-yo fearing isnt an easy thing to do, and it requires a lot of concentration in your typical instance.
cyclone and root just require 1.5s of spell casting. while cyclone has to be maintained every 6s, that still allows about 4s of spell casting, enough for one starfire or a couple of hots. meanwhile, the yo-yo kiting lock has, at most, one GCD with which to toss a DoT. he can choose to do it on the feared target, trying to DPS that one down, but then he runs the risk of breaking fear early, so theres a tradeoff.
more than that, feared targets, and seduced targets as well, as susceptible to AoE. cycloned targets are not. hence, cyclone is a complete CC, and allowing it to be chained without any DR, even in pve, as it would allow you to very easily lockdown a mob without troubling any of the normal workings of the party.
cyclone and root just require 1.5s of spell casting. while cyclone has to be maintained every 6s, that still allows about 4s of spell casting, enough for one starfire or a couple of hots. meanwhile, the yo-yo kiting lock has, at most, one GCD with which to toss a DoT. he can choose to do it on the feared target, trying to DPS that one down, but then he runs the risk of breaking fear early, so theres a tradeoff.
more than that, feared targets, and seduced targets as well, as susceptible to AoE. cycloned targets are not. hence, cyclone is a complete CC, and allowing it to be chained without any DR, even in pve, as it would allow you to very easily lockdown a mob without troubling any of the normal workings of the party.
Breaking Fear has only been a problem when someone else does it. I dont know why, but they removed the mechanic from Recklessness that could cancel fear/horror effects; that was usually how I CC with Fear, and maintain DPS.
I still think diminishing returns is arbitrary in PVE. Would be better to just keep Roots outside, and Cyclone be the inside CC.
I still think diminishing returns is arbitrary in PVE. Would be better to just keep Roots outside, and Cyclone be the inside CC.
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