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Holy/Ret Build? Follow
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=sxAzg0zhVzZZifMxbhhcMsL
This build is a bit messy, cos i was in a hurry when i typed this, so theres a few points spent in possibly wrong locations, but my point was in making a build that gets holy shock, a lot of +crit chance, still high healing but with some CC and general increase in damage when needed... not really sure how viable such a build would be
I have searched around for info on builds like this, but they all seem to be pre-patch 3.03/3.02, and we all know a lot changed for us since those patches lol
cheers anyway, dont flame too much, just curious about the viability of a hybrid build for a hybrid class
(i would also consider holy/prot hybrid, but it seemed the extra ret crit would help my holy heals as well as shocks)
ta!
I've actually been looking at builds like this.. but mine always had Sheath of Light. With that talent, you get more bonus healing from raid-AP buffs, and a 60% extra power HoT on heal crits. I think that's pretty huge, but that prevents me from getting Holy Shock.
I don't really see the point of your 2 points in Deflection, or 3 in 2H weapon spec.. If you're healing, you won't be parrying, and you won't be using a 2H weapon.
Other than that, the difference between yours and mine is pretty small:
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=sxAzg0zhcZZVfbxbhzfrsL0h
There's no 80's to test it with, and my 70 version is basically Ret with Healing Light and Illumination. You can heal just fine as pure ret at this point.
I don't really see the point of your 2 points in Deflection, or 3 in 2H weapon spec.. If you're healing, you won't be parrying, and you won't be using a 2H weapon.
Other than that, the difference between yours and mine is pretty small:
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=sxAzg0zhcZZVfbxbhzfrsL0h
There's no 80's to test it with, and my 70 version is basically Ret with Healing Light and Illumination. You can heal just fine as pure ret at this point.
lol you can tell how long its been since i actually posted on alla, my details are for a game ive not played in 2 years :p
anywho, yes, further info now that i have the time, my aim for this idea has been based on the general mundaneness of the top-tier holy talents...yes theres some nice looking things like long-range judgments and ...haste. And that seems to be about it! and im still unconvinced about how useful long range judgments would be, compared to things in the other trees that those points could be spent on instead. And bacon of light...just doesnt seem good enough for a 51 point talent.
Ive even been highly tempted to go all-out retribution, perhaps a full 51 points, and still stay in the same role i am now as an off-healer or occasional main healer. between JotW, AoW and that talent that boosts spellpower by a % of AP...I've seen the numbers (was from 3.02 though, but i dont think holy has gained anything, and ret has only lost burst damage from what i can tell), and theres something a bit wrong somewhere when a dps spec can still match a healing spec in healing output... but anyway getting off-topic somewhat...
anyway yes, any thoughts? help would be muchos appreciated
in reply to ehcks:
yeh thats what i have found, healing as ret seems more than viable, in fact what i just posted kinda agrees with what you just said lol
my holy shock build was more cos i like the ability of and fun of using holy shock, but tbh 90% of the time i use it as a damaging spell...and in the ret tree i get crusader and divine storm...which are probably more fun to use, and far more effective!
so perhaps i should be a bizarre "healing retribution" paladin, and just see my therapist to sort out my confusion issues
edit: oh, and those extras in the 2h-sword and parry, was just cos i needed to spend points to go up the tiers, and was in too much of a hurry to put them in the right places lol. the important points were spent, eg. conviction etc.
Edited, Nov 7th 2008 5:23pm by Niiru
yeh thats what i have found, healing as ret seems more than viable, in fact what i just posted kinda agrees with what you just said lol
my holy shock build was more cos i like the ability of and fun of using holy shock, but tbh 90% of the time i use it as a damaging spell...and in the ret tree i get crusader and divine storm...which are probably more fun to use, and far more effective!
so perhaps i should be a bizarre "healing retribution" paladin, and just see my therapist to sort out my confusion issues
edit: oh, and those extras in the 2h-sword and parry, was just cos i needed to spend points to go up the tiers, and was in too much of a hurry to put them in the right places lol. the important points were spent, eg. conviction etc.
Edited, Nov 7th 2008 5:23pm by Niiru
Quote:
Ive even been highly tempted to go all-out retribution, perhaps a full 51 points, and still stay in the same role i am now as an off-healer or occasional main healer.
That's what I do. Plain old 0/5/56 PvE Ret spec. I put on my healing gear and can do just fine healing, so far, up to the first two bosses of Hyjal.
I've tried a 56 points in holy spec. Judging from range doesn't do much different than judging from 10 yards. If the fights are easy enough, I like getting into melee range for some Seal of Light.
Bacon of Light was weak. It's probably great for 5-mans with AoE bosses, but when you have 7 or 8 healers, you'll barely see any extra healing from it. Your target, or your beacon target, will be healed before your heal goes off, and it's just wasted mana.
The only thing I like in Holy is the huge amount of haste I can get. Judgements of the Pure, Infusion of Light, and Light's Grace, and I have .8 second Holy Lights. I actually dislike the change to IoL that'll make Flash of Light instant. It's a total waste of a superb emergency heal.
so what is your current build? is it the one you posted? i am now thinking maybe...
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=sxAzg0zhzZZVfbxbhzfrsxzh
or perhaps going the whole hog up to getting divine storm, though that does mean losing out on divine favour, which is a very nice ability to have!
of course this is all just thinking ahead, but its nice to know where to put talent points now to work upto as you level up, rather than respeccing every few levels
Edited, Nov 7th 2008 5:40pm by Niiru
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=sxAzg0zhzZZVfbxbhzfrsxzh
or perhaps going the whole hog up to getting divine storm, though that does mean losing out on divine favour, which is a very nice ability to have!
of course this is all just thinking ahead, but its nice to know where to put talent points now to work upto as you level up, rather than respeccing every few levels
Edited, Nov 7th 2008 5:40pm by Niiru
Ehcks wrote:
Bacon of Light was weak. It's probably great for 5-mans with AoE bosses, but when you have 7 or 8 healers, you'll barely see any extra healing from it. Your target, or your beacon target, will be healed before your heal goes off, and it's just wasted mana.
People have said this since patch day, but I have yet to see it. In full Baconator mode I've shot up the healing charts without seeing a ton of overhealing. Our most recent ZA clear, if Recount is to be believed, showed me at just shy of 60% total healing, with the rest split between a non-Bacon Holydin in better gear and a quite good Resto Druid raid healer who was spamming HoTs like a crazy man. And yes, before you ask, I was Judging on nearly every cooldown and frequently throwing in Holy Shocks and HoWs whenever possible.
The night before, I solo healed through the top half of Kara without a problem, a feat made possible by Bacon. We're running the first few bosses of SSC/TK with only 4-5 healers. Perhaps there's a neural network/band of brothers phenomenon going on with my guildies, but I'm never seeing my target, or my beacon's target, getting topped off before my heal lands, even in a 10- and 25-man environment.
I mean no disrespect to the deep Ret healers, and I look forward to experimenting with a Sheath of Light build myself, but a lot of the early criticism of Bacon seems unfounded in my experience thus far.
That's my two cents for you.
hey im happy to be proved wrong, i have liked using holy shock ever since i was able to get it lol, it just seemed like the current deep-ret build would be a better all round build, and more fun to play.
I was a holy paladin pre-patch, and enjoyed holy shocking whenever i could, and i liked the idea of it being on a much shorter timer now, but the holy damage output just seemed rather limited, not many of our "holy judgments" actually get increased in power by our +holy crit% and +spellpower, moss of them seem to rely on melee stats...which is wierd lol and a shame. but again, if anyone knows different then im happy to be proven wrong!
I would love to put out a good all round holy spec, im happy healing but id like to be able to take care of myself when questing and when im not needed for main heal, without respeccing every time
I was a holy paladin pre-patch, and enjoyed holy shocking whenever i could, and i liked the idea of it being on a much shorter timer now, but the holy damage output just seemed rather limited, not many of our "holy judgments" actually get increased in power by our +holy crit% and +spellpower, moss of them seem to rely on melee stats...which is wierd lol and a shame. but again, if anyone knows different then im happy to be proven wrong!
I would love to put out a good all round holy spec, im happy healing but id like to be able to take care of myself when questing and when im not needed for main heal, without respeccing every time
I'm not trying to flame you when I say that build doesn't seem too viable right now. However I'm not sure if your looking for an end game raiding (possibly healing/dps or both?) build or an end game pvp build. For PvE I think that build has potential but your missing some of the key deep talents in ret were a ton of our damage comes from. Since this seems to be based around PvE I'll just keep my 2 cents at that because I don't know a whole lot about PvE healing endgame.
PS: How many of the regular paladin posters are serious about Paladin's in arena and would be interested in theory crafting on builds, strats, combos etc?
I know Theo has a PvP thread but it's open to all arena and I'm looking for paladin expertise here. Just wondering if I should start a separate thread or keep it here? I don't want to detract from the OPs point.
PS: How many of the regular paladin posters are serious about Paladin's in arena and would be interested in theory crafting on builds, strats, combos etc?
I know Theo has a PvP thread but it's open to all arena and I'm looking for paladin expertise here. Just wondering if I should start a separate thread or keep it here? I don't want to detract from the OPs point.
this build isnt by any means a final build, some of the points were only put in so that the talent calculator would allow me to put points into the higher tiers, such as FotW and Sheath. The post was more about the viability of retribution specced healing.
also it seems more....right, for a paladin to be capable of 2 roles in any fight, either damage or healing, or tanking or healing...but as holy build you seem to be limited to one role now, as even shockadins burst has been changed (edit: I have started a new thread about holy damage, i may be mistaken about this sorry if i am)
Im leaving for the outlands soon, and am just trying to learn about my class as it stands, as well as the most fun way to play both for myself and anyone im partying with! it does seem like pallys only get invites if they heal lol
Edited, Nov 8th 2008 9:31am by Niiru
also it seems more....right, for a paladin to be capable of 2 roles in any fight, either damage or healing, or tanking or healing...but as holy build you seem to be limited to one role now, as even shockadins burst has been changed (edit: I have started a new thread about holy damage, i may be mistaken about this sorry if i am)
Im leaving for the outlands soon, and am just trying to learn about my class as it stands, as well as the most fun way to play both for myself and anyone im partying with! it does seem like pallys only get invites if they heal lol
Edited, Nov 8th 2008 9:31am by Niiru
If you want to be DPS/healing, then go Ret. You won't be able to heal as good as a well-played Holy, but you'll do just fine. Your DPS will be vastly improved though.
Think of it on a scale of 1-10 (10 being best within class)
Ret spec
10 = DPS
8 = Heal
Holy spec
5 = DPS
10 = Heal
Think of it on a scale of 1-10 (10 being best within class)
Ret spec
10 = DPS
8 = Heal
Holy spec
5 = DPS
10 = Heal
Ive played around with the Ret/Holy spec...getting SoL and such. Its nowhere near as good as going full holy. Sure you get slightly more spellpower and If there was a fight where you could stand in 1 place and spam HL on the main tank and noone else then it would be great. But realistically thats not the case. Not having holy shock is a giant detriment to your healing abilities.
If anyone says that Beacon of Light is not good, they are either using it wrong, or reading forum posts from other people using it wrong. Beacon of Light is one of the best Talents Holy Pallies have ever been graced with. It works amazingly on almost any fight. Granted i havent had the chance to use it in EVERY encounter, but its amazing on every boss in SWP and most bosses in BT/Hyjal.
Having a static 15% haste from Judgements of the Pure and being able to judge from 40 yards away are both invaluable. Freeing up gem slots for Crit Gems rather then Haste Gems and making it so you dont have to move in order to judge and keep the 15% haste. The ret/holy build is for show imo, look i can cast holy light for 20 minutes without stopping. Thats great, i can keep 10 ppl alive where as you can keep 1.
If anyone says that Beacon of Light is not good, they are either using it wrong, or reading forum posts from other people using it wrong. Beacon of Light is one of the best Talents Holy Pallies have ever been graced with. It works amazingly on almost any fight. Granted i havent had the chance to use it in EVERY encounter, but its amazing on every boss in SWP and most bosses in BT/Hyjal.
Having a static 15% haste from Judgements of the Pure and being able to judge from 40 yards away are both invaluable. Freeing up gem slots for Crit Gems rather then Haste Gems and making it so you dont have to move in order to judge and keep the 15% haste. The ret/holy build is for show imo, look i can cast holy light for 20 minutes without stopping. Thats great, i can keep 10 ppl alive where as you can keep 1.
43 posts
you cant split it as a pally because you spread yourself too thin. from becoming good at the spec youve chosen it goes to being average if not terrible depending on the spec choice
43 posts
if your going ret u need crusader strike. like seriously what would you use from the ret tree other than pursuit for pvp and sheath, and if you grabbed sheath your holyness would be weak.
ps. judgements of the wise doesnt give enough mana to make the entire spec worth it.
ps. judgements of the wise doesnt give enough mana to make the entire spec worth it.
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