ok ive been posting here a little bit since im newish to wow tanking, and would rather ask people with experience then spend time i dont have trying to learn it on my own (with wrath coming)
my current tanking stats
12.6k hp
72.12 avoidance without holy shield
107.44 avoidance with holy shield
503 defense
14,756 armor with devotion
now i know 102.4 avoidance is really just a minimum guideline to meet for raiding, but is avoidance that big of a deal once your past uncrushable?
im mainly just doing heroics and random raids when i feel like it. im currently using Shield of the Wayward Footman and thinking of replacing it with Azure-Shield of Coldarra. But upgrading to the badge shield would cost ~1.6-2 avoidance (as ive been upgrading my gear over the last couple days ive dropped from around 112 avoidance to 107), so my second question is, is it worth upgrading to the badge shield and not worrying about the avoidance difference, or should i stay with what i have
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A couple prot gearing questionsFollow
1. after getting uncrush / uncrit max , you should go for stamina upgrades - there is no point in raising higher than the max needed
2. don't get the badges shield, get the SSO shield (untill you get a better one from a raid) and spend the badges on weapon or something else
2. don't get the badges shield, get the SSO shield (untill you get a better one from a raid) and spend the badges on weapon or something else
OMGEverythingIsTaken wrote:
ok ive been posting here a little bit since im newish to wow tanking, and would rather ask people with experience then spend time i dont have trying to learn it on my own (with wrath coming)
my current tanking stats
12.6k hp
72.12 avoidance without holy shield
107.44 avoidance with holy shield
503 defense
14,756 armor with devotion
now i know 102.4 avoidance is really just a minimum guideline to meet for raiding, but is avoidance that big of a deal once your past uncrushable?
im mainly just doing heroics and random raids when i feel like it. im currently using Shield of the Wayward Footman and thinking of replacing it with Azure-Shield of Coldarra. But upgrading to the badge shield would cost ~1.6-2 avoidance (as ive been upgrading my gear over the last couple days ive dropped from around 112 avoidance to 107), so my second question is, is it worth upgrading to the badge shield and not worrying about the avoidance difference, or should i stay with what i have
my current tanking stats
12.6k hp
72.12 avoidance without holy shield
107.44 avoidance with holy shield
503 defense
14,756 armor with devotion
now i know 102.4 avoidance is really just a minimum guideline to meet for raiding, but is avoidance that big of a deal once your past uncrushable?
im mainly just doing heroics and random raids when i feel like it. im currently using Shield of the Wayward Footman and thinking of replacing it with Azure-Shield of Coldarra. But upgrading to the badge shield would cost ~1.6-2 avoidance (as ive been upgrading my gear over the last couple days ive dropped from around 112 avoidance to 107), so my second question is, is it worth upgrading to the badge shield and not worrying about the avoidance difference, or should i stay with what i have
Couple things:
-Block isn't avoidance, it's mitigation (when you block, you mitigate the incoming attack rather than avoiding it entirely)
-102.4% avoidance+block isn't as important as it used to be. Attacks that are avoided or blocked can't be crushing blows, but raid bosses no longer crush (only +4 and higher level mobs do).
-That said, having 102.4% avoidance+block isn't a bad thing, especially with the new 2 str = 1 block value conversion. You can fudge it a bit if you have Redoubt though, since constant 102.4% isn't absolutely required anymore and Redoubt has good uptime.
-Once you're above 102.4% avoidance+block, extra block rating does absolutely nothing (there are no regular hits left to block, everything is already dodged, parried, missed, or blocked). If you can stay at 102.4% and trade some block for some avoidance (most likely def rating or dodge rating), you're taking less damage. In this case, you're further ahead of 102.4% than the block that your shield gives you, so it would be a humongous upgrade going to the badge shield.
-With your current stats, I'd probably stack stamina. I'm guessing you're tanking stuff like Kara and Heroics, and even with blocking every hit some of the bosses (especially Prince) can do some burst that would be uncomforable with your current health.
-Not sure I'd bother buying new badge gear 8 days before the expansion, but do what's fun for you.
Edited, Nov 6th 2008 1:52am by Theophastus
As others have said, Crushing Blows are now only from bosses that are +4 levels (Kara/TBC raid bosses are only +3 levels) so 102.4 is no longer a "magic number". 490 Defense to prevent crits is still a magic number for the few days that you will still be 70.
This http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?witem=34675;source=live is still considered to be one of the best Paladin Tanking shields (until you get a better one from raids or WOTLK anyway) so if you have (or can get) the SSO rep for it, get it.
If you have badges to spend, upgrading your gear isn't going to hurt at all, it just isn't going to last forever (maybe level 75-78 at most), but at this point, you might as well spend your badges on something. I would recommend the 60-badge ring from the SSO badge vendor (the smith on IoQD or the SSO badge vendor in Shat next to the portal to QD). Rings are tougher to come by, and the 60-badge ring is better than the violet-eye exalted ring from repeatedly doing Kara, and is also better than the tanking rings that drop in Kara.
With your current stats, you could easily run 3-6 heroics per night with a decent group (assuming you have the time) and upgrade whatever you want to before the expansion just for fun. It won't last you forever, but it WILL make the first 5-7 levels of WOTLK even easier.
Primal Nether and Nether Vortex and Badge Gems are getting dumped on the market like crazy while people blow their badges now, so you might as well just get some better equipment to make levelling even easier. I plan on loading up on whatever badge gear that I am missing over the next week just because I am having fun mauling heroics now.
This http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?witem=34675;source=live is still considered to be one of the best Paladin Tanking shields (until you get a better one from raids or WOTLK anyway) so if you have (or can get) the SSO rep for it, get it.
If you have badges to spend, upgrading your gear isn't going to hurt at all, it just isn't going to last forever (maybe level 75-78 at most), but at this point, you might as well spend your badges on something. I would recommend the 60-badge ring from the SSO badge vendor (the smith on IoQD or the SSO badge vendor in Shat next to the portal to QD). Rings are tougher to come by, and the 60-badge ring is better than the violet-eye exalted ring from repeatedly doing Kara, and is also better than the tanking rings that drop in Kara.
With your current stats, you could easily run 3-6 heroics per night with a decent group (assuming you have the time) and upgrade whatever you want to before the expansion just for fun. It won't last you forever, but it WILL make the first 5-7 levels of WOTLK even easier.
Primal Nether and Nether Vortex and Badge Gems are getting dumped on the market like crazy while people blow their badges now, so you might as well just get some better equipment to make levelling even easier. I plan on loading up on whatever badge gear that I am missing over the next week just because I am having fun mauling heroics now.
to make sure im understanding Theophastus correctly, after 102.4% avoidance, im better off dropping block rating and stacking dodge/defense/parry rating, and if i cant get the sso shield the badge shield would be a good upgrade?
These guys have it right.
Avoidance doesn't need to be any higher than 102.4%. Yes, they bumped it up to +4 bosses, but you don't want to see it drop and be struggling to get it back up when you hit WotLK bosses. Again, anything higher is a waste of pts. If you can swap avoidance pts around, I believe that order of importance is block rating (to block those blows, kicking off our HS and Blessing of Sant), Parry (hey, threat is threat even if it's white damage and the extra hits add up on your Hands) then dodge (best not to get hit if you can't do the other 2).
I believe what he means by this is, anything above 102.4% is pointless. If you can swap things around and stay above that, more power to you.
Just get the SSO shield. With dailys and instance it's really easy to do, honest. And yes, Stam. I believe that the new Def # for lvl 80 is 540 (though I'm not sure... memory bad... have read it somewhere here though...) And I think the new conversion is 5pts Def Rating= 1pt Defence... or close to that as when I took a ring off that had 10 Def Rating (and stam), it dropped my Def by 2 pts... but don't quote me on it.
And I recomend keeping your gear up. I agree with jerom, it won't last forever (avout lvl 78 from what I've read), but it will get you through the new instance till you can upgrade it.
Good Luck.
Avoidance doesn't need to be any higher than 102.4%. Yes, they bumped it up to +4 bosses, but you don't want to see it drop and be struggling to get it back up when you hit WotLK bosses. Again, anything higher is a waste of pts. If you can swap avoidance pts around, I believe that order of importance is block rating (to block those blows, kicking off our HS and Blessing of Sant), Parry (hey, threat is threat even if it's white damage and the extra hits add up on your Hands) then dodge (best not to get hit if you can't do the other 2).
Quote:
-Once you're above 102.4% avoidance+block, extra block rating does absolutely nothing (there are no regular hits left to block, everything is already dodged, parried, missed, or blocked). If you can stay at 102.4% and trade some block for some avoidance (most likely def rating or dodge rating), you're taking less damage. In this case, you're further ahead of 102.4% than the block that your shield gives you, so it would be a humongous upgrade going to the badge shield.
I believe what he means by this is, anything above 102.4% is pointless. If you can swap things around and stay above that, more power to you.
Quote:
...and if i cant get the sso shield the badge shield would be a good upgrade?
Just get the SSO shield. With dailys and instance it's really easy to do, honest. And yes, Stam. I believe that the new Def # for lvl 80 is 540 (though I'm not sure... memory bad... have read it somewhere here though...) And I think the new conversion is 5pts Def Rating= 1pt Defence... or close to that as when I took a ring off that had 10 Def Rating (and stam), it dropped my Def by 2 pts... but don't quote me on it.
And I recomend keeping your gear up. I agree with jerom, it won't last forever (avout lvl 78 from what I've read), but it will get you through the new instance till you can upgrade it.
Good Luck.
OMGEverythingIsTaken wrote:
to make sure im understanding Theophastus correctly, after 102.4% avoidance, im better off dropping block rating and stacking dodge/defense/parry rating, and if i cant get the sso shield the badge shield would be a good upgrade?
This is correct. If you can drop block for dodge or parry and keep 102.4%, you're taking less damage (dodge takes precedence over block, so if you're at, say, 103.4%, you have 1% block that's not doing a thing for you).
OMGEverythingIsTaken wrote:
I believe that order of importance is block rating (to block those blows, kicking off our HS and Blessing of Sant), Parry (hey, threat is threat even if it's white damage and the extra hits add up on your Hands) then dodge (best not to get hit if you can't do the other 2).
The amount of extra threat we get from parry is absolutely minimal, but it takes about 25% more parry rating for 1% parry than dodge rating (for 1% dodge). Blocking only mitigates about 500-1k (obviously depending on your block value) of a hit vs. potentially 5-10k avoided by a dodge. Better than nuffin, but not nearly as good for damage reduction. I gear for defense (to 490/540) > block (to 102.4%) > dodge > defense (still get some avoidance after 490/540) > parry > block.
If you have enough avoidance to be at 102.4% with holy shield up WITHOUT using the libram of repentance (and it looks like you do), you may want to run Heroic Blood furnace and try for http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?witem=27484;source=live which is a cute way to add to your threat every time you judge.
I got it about a week ago, and I love the extra threat generation.
I have heard that the defense cap at level 80 for uncrittable is actually going to be significantly higher than 540, but I will have to look this up and try to verify the stat conversions at 80.
Edited, Nov 7th 2008 10:38am by jeromesimina
I got it about a week ago, and I love the extra threat generation.
I have heard that the defense cap at level 80 for uncrittable is actually going to be significantly higher than 540, but I will have to look this up and try to verify the stat conversions at 80.
Edited, Nov 7th 2008 10:38am by jeromesimina
jeromesimina wrote:
If you have enough avoidance to be at 102.4% with holy shield up WITHOUT using the libram of repentance (and it looks like you do), you may want to run Heroic Blood furnace and try for http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?witem=27484;source=live which is a cute way to add to your threat every time you judge.
I got it about a week ago, and I love the extra threat generation.
I have heard that the defense cap at level 80 for uncrittable is actually going to be significantly higher than 540, but I will have to look this up and try to verify the stat conversions at 80.
Edited, Nov 7th 2008 10:38am by jeromesimina
I got it about a week ago, and I love the extra threat generation.
I have heard that the defense cap at level 80 for uncrittable is actually going to be significantly higher than 540, but I will have to look this up and try to verify the stat conversions at 80.
Edited, Nov 7th 2008 10:38am by jeromesimina
Uncrittable vs +3 level mobs is ALWAYS +140 defense skill over base, from level 1 to level 80 (25 defense per 1% crit reduction, and all mobs have 5% crit rate, so that's 125, + 5 per level difference, so another 15, for a total of +140). Base defense at 80 is 400 (5x80), so the defense skill for uncrit at 80 is 540. The amount of defense RATING required for uncrittable is 140x4.92 (the conversion of rating to skill is 4.92 at 80) for a required rating of 689.
(And I use the Tome of the Lightbringer (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=32368) which will be super happy fun times at 75 with Shield of Rightousness, but that's obviously not an option for everyone)[/i]
Edited, Nov 7th 2008 10:39am by Theophastus
Thanks Theophastus. It was the 689 defense rating i was remembering. It looks like with the tempered saronite set available at around 78, defense rating won't be too tough to come by for tanks who are gearing up for initial 80 raids at least.
Edited, Nov 7th 2008 12:11pm by jeromesimina
Edited, Nov 7th 2008 12:11pm by jeromesimina
jeromesimina wrote:
Thanks Theophastus. It was the 689 defense rating i was remembering. It looks like with the tempered saronite set available at around 78, defense rating won't be too tough to come by for tanks who are gearing up for initial 80 raids at least.
Edited, Nov 7th 2008 12:11pm by jeromesimina
Edited, Nov 7th 2008 12:11pm by jeromesimina
From what I recall reading on maintankadin, you need a decent kit of rep/dungeon drop/crafted blues to hit uncrittable, but the gear requirement to start doing Naxx is essentially just to be uncrittable, so you'll be good to start raiding after putting a reasonable amount of effort into your gear (which is good by me).
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