I just reached 70 with my first toon, and the alla rogue forums have been great in helping me (although I've often ignored the advice - stupid me). But I need more direct help...
I ran the sethekk halls and shadow labyrinth instances with some guildies and a non guild hunter and the overall dps looked like this:
Hunter c700
Tankadin c690
Shammy (elemental i think) c650
Me (combat rogue) c490
Resto druid c4 :)
I could top 700 with blade flurry up (hitting two mobs) tho.
what am i doing wrong? I figure I should be at least up there in the high 600s - even given the shammy's burst dps (chain lightning crits for 2800 or so), and the hugely OPd paladins.
armoury - here (there are problems atm i think - i have 3 parts opportunist (head, chest, hands) and assassination shoulders; ring of blood reward fist and ced's carver).
I was opening with CS>SnD>spam SS>evis on trash mobs; garrote>spam SS>Snd>spam SS>rupture repeat with evis when low health on bosses. Deadly on OH, instant on MH. Admittedly, SnD not always up - I know it should be constantly up.
I've been invited to run kara next week to get purpled up for WoTLK; but I don't wanna make an idiot of myself and come last in the damage tables (even if kara is easy now...)
Any advice greatly appreciated!
Edited, Nov 5th 2008 8:03pm by spasmorr
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Since I can't see your armory at the moment, I'll just go ahead and tell you what I can.
First off, you shouldn't be using CS on trash mobs, it hurts the tank's ragew generation by a bit and you can sneak in some more damage with Garrote (or even just an SS if the guy won't last long enough.)
You should make a greater effort to keep SnD up at all times, it can be tedious but it's worth it.
The reputation PvP gear is very poor for PvE DPS, It's too stam and Crit heavy (not to mention itemization wasted on resilience) to really put out anything for PvE. You should spend an evening cleaning out the scourge for the Blessed gear of Undead Slaying, it's very heavy with the haste and AP and has a fairly decent amount of agility. It will probably do much better than anything else you have access to for now. (not to mention that kara is absolutely ridden with undead which makes for a hellacious set bonus)
As for your weapons, I'd make an effort to get a faster OH (1.6 speed and lower) as well as a harder hitting MH (I actually think some 70 greens will do more than the quest reward you have now, though I may be mistaken)
You shouldn't worry about sucking the charts in kara, as long as you're doing the most damage your gear will let you I doubt anyone will be bothered.
Most of this information is in one sticky or another, but I hope I was of some help.
First off, you shouldn't be using CS on trash mobs, it hurts the tank's ragew generation by a bit and you can sneak in some more damage with Garrote (or even just an SS if the guy won't last long enough.)
You should make a greater effort to keep SnD up at all times, it can be tedious but it's worth it.
The reputation PvP gear is very poor for PvE DPS, It's too stam and Crit heavy (not to mention itemization wasted on resilience) to really put out anything for PvE. You should spend an evening cleaning out the scourge for the Blessed gear of Undead Slaying, it's very heavy with the haste and AP and has a fairly decent amount of agility. It will probably do much better than anything else you have access to for now. (not to mention that kara is absolutely ridden with undead which makes for a hellacious set bonus)
As for your weapons, I'd make an effort to get a faster OH (1.6 speed and lower) as well as a harder hitting MH (I actually think some 70 greens will do more than the quest reward you have now, though I may be mistaken)
You shouldn't worry about sucking the charts in kara, as long as you're doing the most damage your gear will let you I doubt anyone will be bothered.
Most of this information is in one sticky or another, but I hope I was of some help.
opportunist gear is awful.
if you're combat you need a LOT of hit rating. you will literally see your DPS go up leaps and bounds w/more hit, especially in raids.
Check a spreadsheet for which hand to put poisons on. mine says to have DP on main and WP on offhand. WP is > than TP if you aren't speccing assassination.
right now raid stuff dies too fast to have a strong rotation, but SnD should NEVER be down.
as for CS at the start of fights, its really a toss up. garrote and ambush have positional requirements, and ambush has the weapon requirement. for chain pulls and trash opening with a CS for 2 CPs to start your SnD rotation can be better for DPS.
I personally dont like using garrote and ambush outside of boss fights since mobs move around a hell of a lot, especially with war and druid tanks because of swipe/shockwave positioning. (i know i move mobs around a ton now on my war to get positioning set up).
anyways, dont worry a whole lot now, like i said stuff dies way too fast now.
also your weapons arent listed. thats the very first thing you should get if you want to do competitive dps. i was weaing 1/2 'oppornoobist' battlegear in my first kara run but i had the S1 swords and my DPS remained somewhat competitive. combine that with the upgrades and i ended up with around 700 dps average. dont worry a whole lot about it now and just work on skill and have fun, LK is out in a week
if you're combat you need a LOT of hit rating. you will literally see your DPS go up leaps and bounds w/more hit, especially in raids.
Check a spreadsheet for which hand to put poisons on. mine says to have DP on main and WP on offhand. WP is > than TP if you aren't speccing assassination.
right now raid stuff dies too fast to have a strong rotation, but SnD should NEVER be down.
as for CS at the start of fights, its really a toss up. garrote and ambush have positional requirements, and ambush has the weapon requirement. for chain pulls and trash opening with a CS for 2 CPs to start your SnD rotation can be better for DPS.
I personally dont like using garrote and ambush outside of boss fights since mobs move around a hell of a lot, especially with war and druid tanks because of swipe/shockwave positioning. (i know i move mobs around a ton now on my war to get positioning set up).
anyways, dont worry a whole lot now, like i said stuff dies way too fast now.
also your weapons arent listed. thats the very first thing you should get if you want to do competitive dps. i was weaing 1/2 'oppornoobist' battlegear in my first kara run but i had the S1 swords and my DPS remained somewhat competitive. combine that with the upgrades and i ended up with around 700 dps average. dont worry a whole lot about it now and just work on skill and have fun, LK is out in a week
Oh, Shadow Labs.... "Time for fun" indeed.... grrrrr.... anyhoo....
In instances/grouping Cheap Shot is generally only used at the request of the tank. All tanks convert being hit into threat one way or another and rage-starving your warriors and druids or wasting Holy Shields because of your stun is terribad. Never CS in a raid unless asked to crowd control by stun-lock. Your tanks will appreciate it.
For trash I find I rarely open from stealth as you will get 1-2 more attacks on the mob by just running up and hitting your combo point generator (Mutilate, Sinister Strike, Hemo). Trash doesn't usually live long enough for bleeds to be effective anyway. More damage equals faster clears, more or less. This is especially true in chain pulls.
For bosses, Garrote offers a softer initial threat curve than opening with something that can crit. It can also be glyphed for, so keep that in mind. Combat specs must never let SnD drop and Mutilate specs must never let SnD and HfB drop while in a boss fight. All other rotation considerations are secondary. (Yes, even Rupture).
Gear stat weights for Combat generally prioritize as Expertise > Hit > Agi/AP > Crit until you are nearing either (or both) the Ex and Hit caps. For Mutilate it's similar but Hit loses some weight to Agi after the poison cap. This is covered more in-depth in Theo/Noobles sticky here and Elitist Jerks roguecraft thread.
In Kara you will be mid-chart for the first third of the instance. Those AOE pulls on the stairs don't favor single-target DPS. Don't worry too much about the meter, worry about doing your best. Meters are best used as analytical data after the fight, don't look at them during. I really wish more people would treat them this way. And, I honestly wish people would stop spamming meters in raid chat when I'm trying to do loot. F'in noobs. =D
Basic grouping/raiding tactics are based around keeping on target, optimizing DPS uptime and efficiency. Keep these things in mind and you'll do well.
Happy hunting out there!
In instances/grouping Cheap Shot is generally only used at the request of the tank. All tanks convert being hit into threat one way or another and rage-starving your warriors and druids or wasting Holy Shields because of your stun is terribad. Never CS in a raid unless asked to crowd control by stun-lock. Your tanks will appreciate it.
For trash I find I rarely open from stealth as you will get 1-2 more attacks on the mob by just running up and hitting your combo point generator (Mutilate, Sinister Strike, Hemo). Trash doesn't usually live long enough for bleeds to be effective anyway. More damage equals faster clears, more or less. This is especially true in chain pulls.
For bosses, Garrote offers a softer initial threat curve than opening with something that can crit. It can also be glyphed for, so keep that in mind. Combat specs must never let SnD drop and Mutilate specs must never let SnD and HfB drop while in a boss fight. All other rotation considerations are secondary. (Yes, even Rupture).
Gear stat weights for Combat generally prioritize as Expertise > Hit > Agi/AP > Crit until you are nearing either (or both) the Ex and Hit caps. For Mutilate it's similar but Hit loses some weight to Agi after the poison cap. This is covered more in-depth in Theo/Noobles sticky here and Elitist Jerks roguecraft thread.
In Kara you will be mid-chart for the first third of the instance. Those AOE pulls on the stairs don't favor single-target DPS. Don't worry too much about the meter, worry about doing your best. Meters are best used as analytical data after the fight, don't look at them during. I really wish more people would treat them this way. And, I honestly wish people would stop spamming meters in raid chat when I'm trying to do loot. F'in noobs. =D
Basic grouping/raiding tactics are based around keeping on target, optimizing DPS uptime and efficiency. Keep these things in mind and you'll do well.
Happy hunting out there!
I read Theo's post on hit mechanics. I have a question regarding crits. He indicates a 57% crit cap. Is one able to simply go into the character info screen and say that the crit listed in there is how much total crit one has or are there certain talents (or other stats) missing from that calculation such as malice (or is everything included there)? I am only sitting at about 20% crit right now, so this would seem like a long way to go to get anywhere close to 57%.
IronhideBismarck wrote:
I read Theo's post on hit mechanics. I have a question regarding crits. He indicates a 57% crit cap. Is one able to simply go into the character info screen and say that the crit listed in there is how much total crit one has or are there certain talents (or other stats) missing from that calculation such as malice (or is everything included there)? I am only sitting at about 20% crit right now, so this would seem like a long way to go to get anywhere close to 57%.
Your paperdoll crit is your current crit, including talents and procs (when they're active).
You should also read the mechanics more closely; the crit cap I was talking about is assuming you're hit capped, which for rogues is 363 hit (including Precision).
You're also not factoring in WEx (talent, and any gear you may have). That's going to reduce the dodges you get.
Nowhere did I say that the crit cap is 57%. I may have used it in an example, but that's with my gear, my hit, and my groups.
Yours will be substantially different. Go back and read again.
Also, it's next to impossible to get to the crit cap. Feral druids have a much easier time getting to it, but even in near full T6, my brother hasn't hit it yet.
just a quick Q on the crit cap.
Does that effect specials the same way it does melee attacks.
I'm asking because i do remember some odd things regarding specials having a 2nd combat table roll for crits and it being uncomfirmed. If they do get capped the same way or similary that means arms warrior's overpower is crit capped.
Does that effect specials the same way it does melee attacks.
I'm asking because i do remember some odd things regarding specials having a 2nd combat table roll for crits and it being uncomfirmed. If they do get capped the same way or similary that means arms warrior's overpower is crit capped.
If you have capped specials hit (9% on bosses?), and capped expertise, the special crit cap is 100%.
I believe you're thinking of poisons which are treated as spells and have a 2-roll system (one for resists). Melee attacks have a 1-roll system.
Concerning ourselves about the "crit cap" is kinda pointless. I don't see any practical way in which you could get close. More important are the various Hit caps and the Expertise cap, which are far more heavily weighted stats (regardless of build) and these caps are possible with the right gear/gems/enchants.
Concerning ourselves about the "crit cap" is kinda pointless. I don't see any practical way in which you could get close. More important are the various Hit caps and the Expertise cap, which are far more heavily weighted stats (regardless of build) and these caps are possible with the right gear/gems/enchants.
**Wrong thread**
Edited, Nov 7th 2008 9:56am by MrTalos
Edited, Nov 7th 2008 9:56am by MrTalos
Scholar
16 posts
All,
Thanks for the advice. I've just finished getting the undead slaying stuff - good fun to get, and has made a fair old difference to my dps :) i respecc'd to include killing spree (liking that in combo with blade flurry), and am now hitting more dps (6-700 or so, although i topped out at just >1000. admittedly against undead, with the +170AP argent dawn sharpening stone, and 3/4 undead slaying kit... but still... i was happy :) )
Distinct lack of descent weapons on my server atm (khadgar eu); but never mind. Kara awaits (tuesday) and we shall see how we get on.
cheers again
Thanks for the advice. I've just finished getting the undead slaying stuff - good fun to get, and has made a fair old difference to my dps :) i respecc'd to include killing spree (liking that in combo with blade flurry), and am now hitting more dps (6-700 or so, although i topped out at just >1000. admittedly against undead, with the +170AP argent dawn sharpening stone, and 3/4 undead slaying kit... but still... i was happy :) )
Distinct lack of descent weapons on my server atm (khadgar eu); but never mind. Kara awaits (tuesday) and we shall see how we get on.
cheers again
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