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Unbreakable Armor versus Toughness for dps frostFollow

#1 Nov 04 2008 at 6:42 PM Rating: Decent
OK I'm going to re-post a conversation I had on MMO because I so rarely do math, I figured someone might benefit from reading this.

Dilbrt wrote:
@OP I'm probably going this for dps:
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=jfVMVZGxxxhxdRhoV0sxb

and this for tanking:
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=j0xMZGxxzhed0hRVostcgM


Someone replying wrote:
HAHA success!

I found a flaw in your spec. Not only do you not have Unbreakable Armor, you wasted 5 points in Toughness.

Although Toughness give you more armor (the reason you put it there for more dps is bc you have 5/5 in Bladed Armor), the points could be better spent in other places.

I did some work! A DK in full Hateful Gear, 2nd Tier of the new Arena sets, Would have +14992.55 armor.
Divide that by 180 and you get 83.29, multiply that by 5 and you get a meeezly 416.45 attack power.
Which might i mention is PUNY in WotLK, maybe like 10 dps lol. WOOOOT...


Dilbrt wrote:
I intentionally didn't take unbreakable. You want to take numbers? OK let's use your numbers.

Converting AP into dps
416.45 / 14 = 29.75 dps (14 attack power = 1 dps)

Let's say 5 minute boss fight.
5 * 60 * 29.75 = 8925 damage during a 5 minute boss fight

1 minute cooldown on UA, 20 second duration
5 * 20 = 100 seconds of up time during 5 minute boss fight

To do the same damage you would need the following
8925 / 100 = 89.25 dps

Converting into attack power
89.25 * 14 = 1249.5 AP

Converting into strength (2 AP per str)
1249.5 / 2 = 624.75 strength

Multiplying by 10 since UA uses 10% of your strength
624.75 * 10 = 6247.5

So to achieve the same damage done with UA as taking toughness (assuming your AP count was correct, I started with your numbers), you would need to have 6247.5 strength for a 5 minute boss fight.

I think my math is right, but you can check it.
#2 Nov 05 2008 at 7:52 PM Rating: Good
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8,779 posts
14 AP = 1 DPS.

140 AP = 10 DPS.

~416 AP = ~30 DPS.

so, firstly, the guy doesnt know what hes talking about just within that first sentence.

secondly....if youve gotta do a DPS frost spec, then i certainly think the synergy of toughness and bladed armor helps.

im inclined to say that dropping chill of the grave and vicious strikes and grabbing UA with death rune mastery is likely a better choice however. more runic power from certain skills seems to pale in comparison to an extra 20% AP from str with UA as well as more death runes from obliterate, at least in terms of a pure dps standpoint. it pretty much ensures youll always have a way to keep your necessary rune-based skills going in your rotation.
#3 Nov 06 2008 at 12:18 AM Rating: Decent
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2,717 posts
Toughness + Bladed Armor do synergy, but not very well. If you assume 15k armor from items, then Bladed Armor would give ~417 AP (actually slightly more if that's just armor from items, but we'll go with that). That's not a bad increase in AP for 5 talent points, especially because it will likely scale with gear. Adding toughness throws your armor up to 17.25k armor from items, or an extra 2.25k armor - totalling in an extra 62.5 AP. So yes, it is a DPS boost, but not as much (since both are 5 point talents, compare 417 AP to 63 AP, and obviously toughness is inferior as a pure DPS talent).
That being said, if you sacrifice 1 point in toughness to get UA, that means that you will lose approx 12 AP in order to gain that cooldown. I'd say that is worth it.

Also, 14 AP does NOT equal 1 DPS. It equals 1 DPS to your auto-attack, before haste/hit/crit/dodge/parry is factored in. It adds various other amounts to your DPS via abilities as well. It is likely more than 1 DPS (probably about 4 AP - 1 DPS if you figure how little of our damage is auto-attack, but that's just a guesstimate), so obviously it is MORE in your favor that AP is good.

EDIT: DRM wouldn't necessarily be the greatest choice for a frost DK, since only frost or unholy runes can turn into death runes when it is used, not blood runes that were turned into death runes via blood of the north. And I don't see a need to use blood strike over obliterate.

Edited, Nov 6th 2008 12:20am by skribs
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