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Upcoming post-release feral changesFollow

#1 Nov 04 2008 at 1:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
ARMOR
We are changing the way bear armor works so that bonus armor on items does not receive the bear armor multiplier. Specifically this means that trinkets, rings, necks and cloaks with bonus armor will not be multiplied by the bear bonus. The normal armor on leather will still be multiplied by this bonus. We are also going to remove bonus armor from Feral staves. You’ll get your bonus armor from the leather you acquire.

Examples:
1) A ring that grants 100 bonus armor will now grant a bear 100 armor (not ~470 armor).
2) Leather legs with 253 armor will still grant a bear ~1190 armor (not 253 armor).
3) A feral staff will now grant 0 armor.

We are making this change because armor is such a good stat for bears that it makes taking pieces with bonus armor a non-decision and we don’t want acquiring these pieces, which tend to not be common, to be so much of a barrier to a druid who wants to tank a raid.

This change will NOT be in effect when Lich King ships. We are letting you know this now so that you don’t go through heroic efforts to acquire items like the Badge of Tenacity, or Defender’s Code. Defender’s Code, with 850 armor, will still be a good trinket. But it won’t be an insanely good trinket for a bear.

We will adjust the bear armor modifiers so that your net mitigation does NOT go down with these changes. Let me repeat: this is not a nerf to Feral armor. It is a change to the amount of armor you get from gear with bonus armor.

MANA
We are adding an effect to a deep Feral talent (something like Primal Tenacity) to further reduce the cost of shapeshifting into cat or bear by 50%. This talent will stack with Natural Shapeshifter for a total cost reduction of 80%. PvP-focused druids can get both talents to shift easily and often despite, no longer having Int on gear at level 80.

PROTECTOR OF THE PACK
We are removing the group requirements from this talent. The new tooltip will say: “Increases your attack power by X and reduces the damage you take in Bear Form and Dire Bear Form by Y.” The values of X and Y themselves are not changing.

Again, these changes will NOT be in Nov 13 for Lich King’s launch. We will add them in a patch that will come out sometime before the major Ulduar content patch. We're letting you know now so that you can choose quest rewards and loot drops accordingly.


link

Interesting changes, very happy about the new reduced shapeshifting talent. The changes to armor will take some getting use to and I'll have to rethink how I weigh tanking stats. Protector of the Pack change I don't care too much about but I may try to work it into a PvP build for arena.
#2 Nov 04 2008 at 2:07 PM Rating: Decent
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Silly druid. GS posted these changes in the other Changes thread.

Good effort though. The community does need to know everything as soon as possible. I don't know why we need to know as soon as possible but I certainly feel compelled to know these things.

Damn.

I really need to find my tinfoil hat. They are putting these compulsions in my brain.
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#3 Nov 04 2008 at 4:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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Horsemouth wrote:
Silly druid. GS posted these changes in the other Changes thread.

Harsh!

Sorry, I felt compelled to say that since every time I say something remotely unappreciative or sarcastic I get ripped for being harsh. I for one had missed the other post about this change and appreciated it being brought to the forefront. And regardless, SirJac has enough credit/karma here in the alla-drood-forum that he should have be-called-silly-munity for life.

Horsemouth wrote:
I don't know why we need to know as soon as possible but I certainly feel compelled to know these things.

In this case I think their stated reason for early notification is totally valid...such a dramatic change to the multiplication of bonus armor will impact the value of items so you don't pick something that's better today but will be inferior tomorrow.



Edited, Nov 4th 2008 4:22pm by JeeBar
#4 Nov 04 2008 at 4:32 PM Rating: Good
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LAWL

JeeBar you crack me up on a near daily basis. Keep it up.

Yeah the feral weapons with no armor will hurt the most. The trinket, ring, cloak and neck thing they had talked about before. I had seen some comments where they were going to remove bonus armor from those slots so we don't crave them because they are precious.

They really want us to stop praising armor above all. This is their method.

The PvP talent will be welcomed by all feral PvPers. Good call on that one.

As for the PotP change.... About f*&^%ing time. The party member mechanic was stupid.

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#5 Nov 04 2008 at 5:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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haha thanx for the support JeeBar :D

I'm curious how they will change the existing tanking weapons though when this all goes through. Will there be enough difference that we still have a tank and dps weapon or will we end up just using a single weapon for all roles? Also will the boost to the modifier of base armor values be simply put into baseline bear form or will it it be added to one of the existing tanking talents to keep it out of the hands of balance and resto druids in PvP?

Edited, Nov 4th 2008 6:02pm by SirJac
#6 Nov 04 2008 at 5:38 PM Rating: Good
Quote:
Yeah the feral weapons with no armor will hurt the most.


Yeah that is a fair bit of armor disappearing, luckily GhostCrawler also said :-

Quote:
We will adjust the bear armor modifiers so that your net mitigation does NOT go down with these changes.



So hopefully our current armor will not drop by too much (although our other stats will improve - Angelista's Ring becomes better than the Violet Signet of the Great Protector!)


#7 Nov 04 2008 at 5:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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SirJac wrote:
haha thanx for the support JeeBar :D

No problemo, I just haven't seen ya on here lately and wanted to let you know you're still respected 'round these parts. Horsemouth has been an exceptional addition to the community, but I suspected maybe he didn't know you were a "made guy" in here.


SirJac wrote:
I'm curious how they will change the existing tanking weapons though when this all goes through. Will there be enough difference that we still have a tank and dps weapon or will we end up just using a single weapon for all roles?

Man I hope they don't take it that far. I appreciate the bagspace of the spelldamage change, but I like having one weapon I equip for raw mitigation/avoidance and one that does more for my threatgen, i.e. my DPS weapon. Hopefully we'll be presented with Stam/Agi/Dodge weps for tanking and Agi/Str/AP/Crit weps for DPS.


SirJac wrote:
Also will the boost to the modifier of base armor values be simply put into baseline bear form or will it it be added to one of the existing tanking talents to keep it out of the hands of balance and resto druids in PvP?

I can't imagine they would make the armor modifier a feral talent since our moonykin brethren get the same armor boost. Oh wait...new thought...with all the talk about moonkin DPS rivaling or surpassing clothy caster damage maybe Blizz would decide they need to nerf their armor. I mean, really, how well should feathers stand up to axes and swords anyway?
#8 Nov 04 2008 at 6:21 PM Rating: Good
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I have been thinking about the armor changes. While I liked having the armor on tanking weapons, overall I like it I think. Makes us have to think more about what will work better for various tank sets, DPS sets and why.

Stamina will be more prized for tanking overall, especially on mitigation sets. Agility and strength will also have places for threat and avoidance sets. Hit, ArP and expertise will be valued for all sets. With hit more valued for threat and expertise on more defensive oriented sets for the parry reduction. We will actually maybe use dodge rating stuff.

This will cause different druids in the same progression level to actually have different gear. Crazy, I know. More choices being valid will help with a wider variety of gear choices. This will take up some of that bag space I was starting to enjoy. I mean come on we should only have 20 or so open bag slots we are druids after all.

Strangely, the changes will also cause us to have more gear options which I greatly like as farming drops is tedious.

I want to see how they re-buff up our armor. Will they also give it to feather druids? Will it be form based or a talent or possibly added on to a tank talent? What will my Earthwarden's armor turn into is another question. Also when will Quor finish acing his finals and start up the druid history again?

So many questions, so much speculation, so little time. Aint it great. :)

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#9 Nov 05 2008 at 2:46 AM Rating: Decent
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I mean, really, how well should feathers stand up to axes and swords anyway?


well the saying goes " the pen is mightier than the sword". In the old days they used feathers to write with aka pens so i guess pretty strong. trick isyou have to hit the beak. It's our weak spot. : P
#10 Nov 05 2008 at 8:34 AM Rating: Good
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JeeBar wrote:
SirJac wrote:
haha thanx for the support JeeBar :D

No problemo, I just haven't seen ya on here lately and wanted to let you know you're still respected 'round these parts. Horsemouth has been an exceptional addition to the community, but I suspected maybe he didn't know you were a "made guy" in here.


Yes, since classes started again its cut alot into my WoW time unfortunately. Anyways, it's good to see a new upstanding member of the druid forums :)

On the topic of changes to tanking weapons, perhaps they will reitemize them so that they focus primarily on stamina, dodge, agility and expertise. If they sacrifice some of the feral AP on the weapons to boost more defensive stats then I think that might make enough of a difference to still have a tanking and dps weapon, although ferals wouldn't be as harshly penalized if they tank with a dps weapon.

The reason I brought up the possibility of the buff to base armor modifier in bear form is that it is being balanced so that a druid with armor accessories and a tanking weapon will still have the same amount of armor after the change. Resto and moonkins generally don't equip those items and so don't have the same armor value in bear form as a tanking feral. If they simply change the base armor modifier for bear form, then this will be a significant buff to druids of other specs since they will then have rough as much armor in bear form as a feral in tanking gear does now. This could have a significant effect in PvP where bear form is already a powerful defence mode and allowing non-feral druids to have that much more armor on top of what bear form already gives could have unintended effects on class balance.
#11 Nov 05 2008 at 10:18 AM Rating: Good
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I honestly think they will bake it into a bear talent. Just for the reasons SirJac stated. It would cause too much QQ from the PvPers to have it baked back into bear form. As we all ready went from a 400% modifier down to 370%.

Additionally, I think they will do it with a bear talent to further differentiate the two feral sub-trees.
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#12 Nov 05 2008 at 10:35 AM Rating: Good
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I am not sure I understand what they mean about the change to Protector of the Pack. Are they saying that there will be a base amount of damage reduction, or that the percentage will be based raid wide as opposed to just group wide?

My thinking is that if its the first and they don't increase the percentage value Protector of the Pack just lost its appeal as a tanking talent.

I'm interested in whats going to happen to the feral weapons too. Last night while running heroic Bot I picked up Feral Staff of Lashing which was a nice upgrade to the staff I was using before. I'm wondering the change will effect it.

I'm glad to see these changes also because I kept an eye on the AH to try and get the Badge of Tenocity for my tanking gear. I'll probably stop doing that now. There are other thing I need to spend my gold on.
#13 Nov 05 2008 at 10:51 AM Rating: Good
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The Protector of the Pack will now grant +2/4/6% AP and 4/8/12% damage reduction in bear form. They might shuffle the damage reduction numbers but that is what it currently does assuming a full party. They are removing the party requirement only, I don't think they are buffing it or anything like that.

That staff is a good staff. Depending on how my Earthwarden changes I may use it for tanking.

I will also stop hunting for a Badge of Tenacity. Seems pointless now that other trinkets are way better. Will stick will my double beer mugs from brew fest for now.
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#14 Nov 05 2008 at 2:11 PM Rating: Good
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That is what PotP will be as above assuming they don't give it tweaks to account for the armor nerf.

They can't just bake it back into bear form as it would jump from 370% -> 700%, which would completely imbalance PvP. Gathered this info from the elitistjerks thread. They have been speculating they will give us a str or AP --> armor modifier which has draw backs as is to buff based in a raid setting. To buffing the heck out of TH and switching it with NI in the tree so caster druids can't get access to the talent.

Will be interesting to see how they do this. Some wild speculation that it could result in the removal of feral AP, which they have acknowledged as a bad thing.

A change is coming...

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#15 Nov 05 2008 at 2:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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the part of me that still lives from the old FF11 warrior forums is disgusted by this quickly-resolved "argument" that somehow managed to avoid anything remotely resembling a hurtful comment.

but then the part of me that is a druid is damn proud we can resolve **** better than any other class board.

its an interesting dichotomy.
#16 Nov 05 2008 at 2:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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It's the pack mentality, Quor. ::nods sagely::
#17 Nov 05 2008 at 3:05 PM Rating: Good
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We all share the same goals. We can all hearth to the same home. We all face the same issues and trials as we progress through this game. We are one of the most nurturing and protective of all classes.

Why would we fight?

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#18 Nov 05 2008 at 5:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quor wrote:
the part of me that still lives from the old FF11 warrior forums is disgusted by this quickly-resolved "argument" that somehow managed to avoid anything remotely resembling a hurtful comment.

but then the part of me that is a druid is damn proud we can resolve sh*t better than any other class board.

its an interesting dichotomy.


Ditto on the dichotomous disgustedness, dawg.

I try to spice things up by being a little caustic/sarcastic every once in a while--usually when some apparent troll posts a poorly-thought-out or clearly-not-researched question with a lack of formatting that makes my eyes bleed. I'm always surprised at how quickly even moderate sarcasm nets me a response something like "Jeebar makes some good points, even if he was a jerk about it. Let's all remember this isn't the rogue forum, please. Now would anybody like to join me for a spot of chamomile tea? Remember...pinkies out!"

I'm admittedly sarcastic in real-life, and I struggle to stay within the bounds of this board's very narrow band of politeness. But whenever I think we could stand to be a bit less genteel I realize how nice it is to know you can slip up and take risks and occasionally say something dumb without worrying about being made to feel like a jackarse.

Keep up the good work, jerks.
#19 Nov 05 2008 at 5:53 PM Rating: Good
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JeeBar wrote:
I'm admittedly sarcastic in real-life


I am very sarcastic and kind of an a$$hole in real life. I am nice on the druid forums and to the girl friend.

I feel you on the pinkies out comment (I made little tee hee hee noise) but at the same time we are very productive here. A great source for information and encouraging of new people to try and speculate or make contributions with out getting sub-defaulted for asking a newb question. The attitude is kind of refreshing but unsustainable beyond posting in class=6.

Now if you'll excuse me I require some chamomile tea and crumpets.

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#20 Nov 05 2008 at 7:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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somehow, and i havent yet figured out how to replicate it, i was able to be a pretty big **** on the war forums of old, and still get a lot of positive **** done. it had to be something about the climate of the game and the class at the time, and everything just fell into place i suppose. but man, i started up some pretty crazy **** in my heyday. i remember one post i made spawned no less than a dozen threads across three different websites, including alla, the IGN forums and killingifrit.

man those were good times.

Quote:
It's the pack mentality, Quor. ::nods sagely::


probably. we all exude a pheromone that keeps us from savagely mauling each other.
#21 Nov 05 2008 at 9:41 PM Rating: Excellent
I can be friendly to all because I have convinced myself that you are all noble Taurens. You see, I hate alliance druids with a passion - probably because being owned by one just points out to me how bad I am at PvP :)

If I ever lose that tauren illusion, you may start to see some snarl Smiley: madSmiley: madSmiley: mad (but somehow I doubt it ;)


#22 Nov 05 2008 at 11:21 PM Rating: Good
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Friar RareBeast wrote:
I can be friendly to all because I have convinced myself that you are all noble Taurens. You see, I hate alliance druids with a passion - probably because being owned by one just points out to me how bad I am at PvP :)

If I ever lose that tauren illusion, you may start to see some snarl Smiley: madSmiley: madSmiley: mad (but somehow I doubt it ;)


/uhoh

/changesig
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