More Paladin Nerfs.Follow

no one said anything about making it a 30 sec CD,

shared CD is something completely different. its more like a 30 sec Global CD for the other power when the opposite is used.

Edit: actually, after reading this again . . .



. . . i've come to realize you have no idea what you are talking about . . . at all.

Edited, Nov 6th 2008 1:33pm by RuenBahamut

Edit 2: to explain . . .


i dont know how you came up with that, really. not only would it never be like this, but it was never mentioned to be like this.



no . . . its not. they are their own powers. Divine shield already has a rank 1, its called Divine shield, its just 8 seconds long.



No . . . it doesnt. its been stated alread that forberance is not the intended solution, its mearly a hotfix untill they figure out something better. once AW is off forberance, it will most likely only share a CD with Divine shield, NOT Divine protection. so your tanking will be fine.

Edited, Nov 6th 2008 1:39pm by RuenBahamut

I took the time to read all the posts, I'm not stating anything ground breaking but I do have experience as 1) S3/S2 geared rogue...S1/S2 geared mage, and all greens ret pally (all 70). (Best arena rating is 1750 ish on the rogue)

Lucky me, I can comment on how 2 of the currently "OP" classes in the game, and the always griped about rogues, stack up.

Currently I think the REAL gripe is not concerning 1v1 ret dominance, it is along the lines of 3v1 ret dominance. As of now, the fact that a ret can no skill faceroll with one button and kill (I say no skill because having a macro go /use 13 /use 14 (both are atp trinkets as I am a human) /cast DS /cast CS) someone is weak.

At least as a rogue, you may be very dominant one v one, but a good stunlock on people who know what they are doing is not CS/KS win. Muti is huge right now on damage, but take a frost mage and he should own that muti rogue save some phenomenal pillar humping. In addition, for a rogue to be very dominant on 1 v 1 it hinges on a good opener. If going for multiple kills, you dont have that opener (or u have 1 vanish as muti but then lose a CC out) and it becomes a very different fight. A stun lock becomes even harder to "10 second kill" someone as something besides muti as well. There are few, if any, instances where a ret cant feasibly kill every spec now one after another.

Before nerfs my green ret pally, I repeat GREEN, topped damage charts (in BG's) if no other ret pallies were there, that was absurd. I like the concept of ret being able to actually use its heals, but as is right now AFTER nerfs, a retri still provides comparable burst damage to a muti rogue with far increased survivability. They need to have one or the other, not both, so that they can fulfill ONE desired roll well. If they should have both to fit a hybrid, neither should be as strong as another "pure blood" or why even have that "pure blood" class at all?

My suggestion: lower the burst (as a hybrid they should not out burst/dps pure dps classes) and let them be survivors as they always have been. Let their heals be very mana efficient and keep good mana efficiency all around, so that a ret paladin does more of a wear them down type of PvP style. This prevents stun/faceroll but will allow the pally to effectively play a roll in arena/BG providing good solid damage and all its utility. On an added bonus, they would still be very tough if patiently played one on one. I could see making BoFreedom undispellable/stealable when on the pally to compensate for lack of burst (or something to let them close the gap). Increase the proc chance to allow more instant cast flash heals maybe would help set them far above where they were, but at a more fair and, what I think, is class designed place; super durable damage dealer. I mean come on; who here that is trying to be fair things that a ret pally should out damage a rogue/warr/mage? It just does not make sense to me.

The arcane mage is maybe a bit strong, but not when fighting any healing class. Healing classes played well and surviving that one big Pom/fireball can do well. Nothing much here.

Forwald, you're retarded.

I'm sorry, I'm not usually this blunt, but seriously. You are very dumb.

A shared cooldown is what happens when you hit a trinket. It means that if you hit AW, it will put Divine Shield on a separate 30 second cooldown, and vice versa. AW will remain on its 3 minute cooldown, and vice versa. Do you understand?

Edit: I think perhaps I may not be totally clear here, so I will resort to a helpful series of scenarios.

A: I hit Divine Shield. Divine Shield starts its five-minute cooldown, and to prevent me also hitting Avenging Wrath, its thirty-second shared cooldown is also started.
B: Thirty seconds afterwards, I hit Avenging Wrath, while Divine Shield still has four and a half minutes left. It starts its three-minute cooldown, and Divine Shield stays where it is, because its remaining cooldown is longer than thirty seconds.
C: Instead of B, I wait until Divine Shield is fifteen seconds off cooldown to hit Avenging Wrath. Divine Shield's cooldown is now set back to thirty seconds, and Avenging Wrath starts its three-minute cooldown.

This is what GC has proposed in a blue post regarding the subject, which is why Ruen was talking about it.


Edited, Nov 7th 2008 4:43am by zepoodle

ty zepoodle... and fowold... um, you're digging yourself deeper and deeper each post. slow down. breathe in... 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 ok, breathe out... calm yet? if not repear... now, reread what ghostcrawler and ruenbahamat and, even more clearly, what zepoodle have written.

does it make a little more sense yet? they don't share their cooldowns completely. noone is talking about being able to use either DS or AW every 30 seconds. as much fun as that would be, noone in their right mind would think there would be any way to balance that...

some of us here aren't the brightest maybe, but at the very least you'd do well to realize that ruen bahamat knows pallies well enough that he wouldn't be a complete idiot about this. zepoodle may have his math problems, but his knowledge of pallies is good. 95% of the time these 2 will know what they're talking about. argueing vehemently with them won't help your credibility here.

1) I call BS on your green ret pally topping damage in BG's, as if there were a mage or boomkin (as the other OP classes) or a decent shammy, lock or hunter who in all probability would be in epics of some description there then you would have no chance in being anywhere near the top. My pally has purples in every slot plus all enchants plus all gems and I have been top of damage once or twice. You are exagerating. IF you were in T6/S4 then fine but BS on your green geared pally with prob 1k AP, 7k hp 5k mana, 15% crit, against the rest in BG's....NO

2) You sound a bit like a dictator when you are on about 'Pure blood'.

3) You by your own admission have a green geared pally, which indicates that you have spent the most minimal amount of time on him which further indicates that you have not had sufficient experience of the class as a whole let alone a spec to actually be able to speak with any authority on anything regarding a ret pally. In other words, shush you QQing rogue whiner (meant nicely so don't take offence).

4) What about shamans and Druids? both can put out some awesome damage (BOOOOMKIN!) and heal and the drood can tank as well. This further indicates point 3 where you really have no idea and are getting a bit stressed that pallies can kick a bit of **** (they could before but you had to be legendary really to be very successful)

5) I happen to have a rogue and it is funny wandering around sapping people for a laugh and watching them AOE the hell out of the place, I also know that you can lolstun practically anything from 100-0 really easily especially clothies and have so many get outs that its not really funny.

I think that there was a lot of exaggeration about pallies, granted they were a bit too powerful (for other players to handle) and so many classes were used to having 90% of pallies as a free HK (the 10% were the hard ones and not retnoobs) and all of a sudden they get spanked and all of a sudden there are lots of 'OMG a nude ret pallaz with a stick solo'd sunwell then solo'd an AV and he topped damage healing and HK's as well as winin! '

Lastly your crap about a ret pally shouldn't do the same damage as a warrior/rogue/mage. STFU and go and grow some balls, Boomkins do far more damage than any of them and more than a ret pally ever did (and they are hybrids tooo waaa waaa)

Get out of the pally forum and never come back, you are just a whinging noob and you spout crap as well. Get your pally epiced up, get SOLID, GOOD experience of tanking , healing and DPS as a pally and get more then 50 days played then we may listen to you.

Now go cancel your account, cancel your contract with your ISP, leave home quit your job and go live in a mountain somewhere.

Edit: Some typo's and stuff


Edited, Nov 7th 2008 6:01pm by SamwiseTheBrave

\o/

This bugged me >.>



I'm trying to figure out how? Any raid I've been in the tanks pull mobs far enough away from sheep mobs so they can do their own AoE to tank...Therefore a melee AoE damage spell is not ever going to break a sheep. And you really think that AoEing trash is just going to leave in the expansion? Soon as people are geared 10 man nax they will easily be able to tank full trash pulls and AoE down everything. We'll probably sheep healers in packs at most. I simply don't see how you can hit a CCed mob outside of a 5 man, and even if you do how 1 more mob is gonna hurt the tank so terribly bad (or losing a mage because the tank couldn't grab it before killing said mage) is gonna wipe a raid. Just my thoughts on this~