I want to make a half-bear, half-dps build and I've figured out a 0/41/16 build so far, but what would be best to spend the other 4 points in?
Natural Reaction?
Protector of the Pack?
King of the Jungle?
something else? (imp LotP? infec wounds?)
My goal is to primarily be dps (questing or in 5-man groups) while also tanking if needed (offtank in 10-mans, or MT if our pally pal isn't around)
I was thinking just put one point in each and call it good, but obviously that's not "best," so -- any suggestions or ideas? Which of those three or five skills are "awesome if you have them" and which are "useless in most situations"?
Thanks
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- Feral build - NR, PotP, KotJ?
Feral build - NR, PotP, KotJ?Follow
Note that I'm happiest off-tanking, so that's the direction I lean talent-wise. If you'll be DPSing as a kitty >80% of the time, maybe this is all moot. The way you describe what you want to do I guessed/assumed that you're pure as DPS 40% of the time, OT 40% of the time, and fill-in MT 20% of the time.
To be able to OT and occasionally MT 10-mans (assuming you're talking about regular-strength instances and not the recently-nerfed TBC stuff) I'd think you'd reeealy want 3/3 points in both PotP and NR. Those 6 points net you 6% dodge, 6% AP boost, 12% damage reduction, rage-on-dodge...very well-spent points in my book.
You've got 4 points free so to do that you only need 2 more. It's a shame you can't just take them out of Natural Shapeshifter, because for what you want to do those points aren't valuable. You had to spend there to get Master Shapeshifter which has nice features for cat and bear. But for bear form, PotP's 6% AP boost should offset the loss of Master Shapeshifter's 4% increase physical damage (don't know the math, might not be close, but it's the same idea). Losing the 4% crit boost in cat is unfortunate, but that's where I'd personally take the points from to make me a much more capable tank.
Oh hey, on that note of losing cat crit, the good news is once you pull 2 out of Master Shapeshifter there's not much reason to keep 3 in Natural Shapeshifter so you've got 3 more points to spend. Since DPS is your "primary" role I'd dump them in Rend & Tear. I think a 12% increase to Shred damage on bleeding targets (and aren't they all, really?) would more than offset that loss of Master Shapeshifter's cat form crit boost.
To be able to OT and occasionally MT 10-mans (assuming you're talking about regular-strength instances and not the recently-nerfed TBC stuff) I'd think you'd reeealy want 3/3 points in both PotP and NR. Those 6 points net you 6% dodge, 6% AP boost, 12% damage reduction, rage-on-dodge...very well-spent points in my book.
You've got 4 points free so to do that you only need 2 more. It's a shame you can't just take them out of Natural Shapeshifter, because for what you want to do those points aren't valuable. You had to spend there to get Master Shapeshifter which has nice features for cat and bear. But for bear form, PotP's 6% AP boost should offset the loss of Master Shapeshifter's 4% increase physical damage (don't know the math, might not be close, but it's the same idea). Losing the 4% crit boost in cat is unfortunate, but that's where I'd personally take the points from to make me a much more capable tank.
Oh hey, on that note of losing cat crit, the good news is once you pull 2 out of Master Shapeshifter there's not much reason to keep 3 in Natural Shapeshifter so you've got 3 more points to spend. Since DPS is your "primary" role I'd dump them in Rend & Tear. I think a 12% increase to Shred damage on bleeding targets (and aren't they all, really?) would more than offset that loss of Master Shapeshifter's cat form crit boost.
I agree. Taking the 5 points out of NS and MS would probably be a good choice. I'd say you def want KotJ. It will help with both tanking and dpsing. Also, with the changes in armor for druids, if you're going to tank. you'll definately want PotP. The 6% dodge you get for NR is almost too good to pass up if you're doing any tanking at all. If you take the 5 points out of the resto tree you'll have 9 total.
3/3 KotJ
3/3 NR
3/3 PotP
The only thing you'll lose as bear is beserk and infected wounds(maybe?). The only thing you'll lose from kitty is a bit of crit from MS(.75% crit/point spent) and the RaT ability. Not a bad trade off for being able to dps and tank.
3/3 KotJ
3/3 NR
3/3 PotP
The only thing you'll lose as bear is beserk and infected wounds(maybe?). The only thing you'll lose from kitty is a bit of crit from MS(.75% crit/point spent) and the RaT ability. Not a bad trade off for being able to dps and tank.
So as a "best of both worlds" build (er, "pretty good of both worlds"), I've come up with this 0/50/11 build - but now the question is:
- 2 pts in Imp MotW, 3 in furor
- 5 in furor
?
Thanks for the help/suggestions. :)
- 2 pts in Imp MotW, 3 in furor
- 5 in furor
?
Thanks for the help/suggestions. :)
ParaThor wrote:
- 2 pts in Imp MotW, 3 in furor
- 5 in furor
?
- 5 in furor
?
I personally think this decision mostly boils down to PvP/PvE...
For me Imp. MotW is a luxury you can afford if you're focused almost entirely on PvE DPS or PvE Main tanking.
I actually like the build you've got there a lot, I'm going to try out a slight variation. I'm going to move all 3 Predatory Instincts points to Rend & Tear, lose all 3 points of SotF for now since I'm critproof through def/resilience, sacrifice OoC, and use all those points to grab 5/5 R&T + Berserk. R&T is rockin' for PvE DPS with the Shred boost on bleeding targets, and in PvP I find an FB crit closers better than Rip. Berserk rocks for threatgen when tanking, and in PvP where it adds more burstiness and has that fear break.
Whoo, been a while since I've been here...
Imp. Mark gets pretty beefy once we get the L80 spell; 1050 armor, a whopping 51 points to stats, and 75 resist. Like JeeBar says, I don't know that having rage/energy on the spot when shifting is *that* crucial outside pvp, so I'd be happy with 2 Imp Mark and 3 Furor.
I'm not impressed by King of the Jungle, Enrage is bad for your armor;;. Might be decent for caster bosses I guess, or periods where you're just not getting hit? I don't recall that happening that often if ever though. Energy back on Tiger's Fury is nice at least, give us another reason to use the skill heh. But I think it would mess up CP rotations a bit, bunch of energy and nothing to use it on! (Though I guess you could use it to spam a few extra CP and get a Ferocious Bite in if your Rip timer is still high...otherwise you're wasting ticks, ya?)
I don't pvp (not much, at least, and generally stuck to healing when I did...) so I opted to drop Feral Charge in my respec. Here's what I have now, but thinking again I'm inclined to drop Imp LotP in favor of PotP. I also see more value in Master Shapeshifter over Predatory Instinct.
My 2c :)
Edit: For sh*ts and giggles, I think this is where I'll end up at 80.
Edited, Oct 31st 2008 12:12pm by Norellicus
Imp. Mark gets pretty beefy once we get the L80 spell; 1050 armor, a whopping 51 points to stats, and 75 resist. Like JeeBar says, I don't know that having rage/energy on the spot when shifting is *that* crucial outside pvp, so I'd be happy with 2 Imp Mark and 3 Furor.
I'm not impressed by King of the Jungle, Enrage is bad for your armor;;. Might be decent for caster bosses I guess, or periods where you're just not getting hit? I don't recall that happening that often if ever though. Energy back on Tiger's Fury is nice at least, give us another reason to use the skill heh. But I think it would mess up CP rotations a bit, bunch of energy and nothing to use it on! (Though I guess you could use it to spam a few extra CP and get a Ferocious Bite in if your Rip timer is still high...otherwise you're wasting ticks, ya?)
I don't pvp (not much, at least, and generally stuck to healing when I did...) so I opted to drop Feral Charge in my respec. Here's what I have now, but thinking again I'm inclined to drop Imp LotP in favor of PotP. I also see more value in Master Shapeshifter over Predatory Instinct.
My 2c :)
Edit: For sh*ts and giggles, I think this is where I'll end up at 80.
Edited, Oct 31st 2008 12:12pm by Norellicus
KotJ is purely for cat DPS. The energy boost for cats is great especially since you get it right when your AP gets cranked up. There are not enough points for a serious bear to take it; just like Intensity, which I miss.
PI only works in cat form. It has no place in a bear build. Points here can be justified for an OT build but would be after other goodies not before.
The NS-MS combo has no place in a non PvP build at this point due to a lack of points for other better stuff.
RnT is great damage for bears and cats as rage is plentiful so the Maul damage helps.
ILotP is a nice talent but can be sacrificed for points easier than others. While I would recommend respeccing it for leveling, that isn't for 2 weeks.
IM is the sh*tznit for bears and strong for cats if the points are there.
BI is a good tank talent simply because of the reduced CD for the interrupt. Blizz has stated it should work when stuns don't. If this ends up not being implemented then I would move the points. Otherwise it is more a leveling talent.
Going 2/2 IMotW 3/5 Furor will become more common, with a 1/2 IMotW and 4/5 Furor for more cat oriented builds. As the energy regen mechanics cause a steep diminishing return on the 5th point.
SotF should be taken to the extent that you need the crit immunity. This is especially valid now as for both JeeBar and many others the best available gear we have has resilience and defense enough to give some good anti crit. I only have 2/3 with my current set up.
PP is a great talent as it directly adds to Expertise. It does not add rating it add rating that is converted. Therefore it is great until you are capped.
As always, remember what is good for now might not be good for later. Leveling talents may suck at end game and end game talents may suck while leveling.
Here is what I am doing now .
Here is my plan for 80 as of now.
Both are very bear oriented. I plan on AoEing mobs down to level. Gather up a 4-6 quest mobs and Swipe them down. Heal, skin them and move on.
edit: try use the mmo-champion talent calculator the descriptions are always more up to date then any where else.
Edited, Oct 31st 2008 2:43pm by Horsemouth
PI only works in cat form. It has no place in a bear build. Points here can be justified for an OT build but would be after other goodies not before.
The NS-MS combo has no place in a non PvP build at this point due to a lack of points for other better stuff.
RnT is great damage for bears and cats as rage is plentiful so the Maul damage helps.
ILotP is a nice talent but can be sacrificed for points easier than others. While I would recommend respeccing it for leveling, that isn't for 2 weeks.
IM is the sh*tznit for bears and strong for cats if the points are there.
BI is a good tank talent simply because of the reduced CD for the interrupt. Blizz has stated it should work when stuns don't. If this ends up not being implemented then I would move the points. Otherwise it is more a leveling talent.
Going 2/2 IMotW 3/5 Furor will become more common, with a 1/2 IMotW and 4/5 Furor for more cat oriented builds. As the energy regen mechanics cause a steep diminishing return on the 5th point.
SotF should be taken to the extent that you need the crit immunity. This is especially valid now as for both JeeBar and many others the best available gear we have has resilience and defense enough to give some good anti crit. I only have 2/3 with my current set up.
PP is a great talent as it directly adds to Expertise. It does not add rating it add rating that is converted. Therefore it is great until you are capped.
As always, remember what is good for now might not be good for later. Leveling talents may suck at end game and end game talents may suck while leveling.
Here is what I am doing now .
Here is my plan for 80 as of now.
Both are very bear oriented. I plan on AoEing mobs down to level. Gather up a 4-6 quest mobs and Swipe them down. Heal, skin them and move on.
edit: try use the mmo-champion talent calculator the descriptions are always more up to date then any where else.
Edited, Oct 31st 2008 2:43pm by Horsemouth
Hellbanned
idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
I don't really understand your logic behind PI being only useful for a cat; how is reducing aoe damage by 30% not a good thing as a tank? >_> Plus, with as much Agility we bear tanks have for Dodge purposes, our crit rate is still pretty respectable, and any increase to that damage (and thus, threat) can't be a bad thing, ya?
Additionally, Infected Wounds just screams 'PVP', as I can't shake the feeling that the attack speed decrease won't apply against the hard stuff where it really counts (bosses, heavy hitting trash where the speed would give healers time to breathe)... do we know one way or the other? If it does, hot ****, sign me up.
I like Rend and Tear as a raid talent but usefulness pre-raid is severely limited, I think. Between keeping Lacerate ticking and Mangle, especially with the improved cooldown, I'm not finding myself casting Maul *that* often.
Additionally, Infected Wounds just screams 'PVP', as I can't shake the feeling that the attack speed decrease won't apply against the hard stuff where it really counts (bosses, heavy hitting trash where the speed would give healers time to breathe)... do we know one way or the other? If it does, hot ****, sign me up.
I like Rend and Tear as a raid talent but usefulness pre-raid is severely limited, I think. Between keeping Lacerate ticking and Mangle, especially with the improved cooldown, I'm not finding myself casting Maul *that* often.
Someone who doesn't read patch notes wrote:
I don't really understand your logic behind PI being only useful for a cat
patch notes wrote:
Predatory Instincts no longer works on Bear Form or Dire Bear form and now reduced damage by 10/20/30% (Source )
Horsemouth wrote:
PI only works in cat form.
It would be nice if PI worked in bear form, tremendously OP but nice. Why would any one any other tank for AoE heavy encounters? It got nerfed for good reason, only works for kitties now.
IW worked in Kara lasted night on all the bosses we fought. I expect this trend to continue. As it is a disease and if bosses are immune to disease Death Knights are screwed. I doubt Blizz would do that and they have said they wont.
As for RnT, while I don't currently have it I have noticed on any pull with more than 3 mobs or any sort of boss or mob that hits hard I have to use Maul or I sit at 100 rage till most of the mobs are dead. I Maul often and with the glyph it hits 2 targets.
Sorry if I came off sounding harsh.
Hellbanned
idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
Ah, well there you go. Good reasoning all around, thanks for the insight :)
And yeah, I didn't read the notes thoroughly, way too much to absorb, especially having been out of touch for a while :p
Edited, Oct 31st 2008 6:11pm by Norellicus
And yeah, I didn't read the notes thoroughly, way too much to absorb, especially having been out of touch for a while :p
Edited, Oct 31st 2008 6:11pm by Norellicus
I have 5/5 RnT and while swipe spamming in Kitty gear last night in SSC, I was spamming maul as well and getting crits for 3.5k! Now that is nice threat generation :)
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