Mostly this is regarding MS vs. Slam.. but in PvE is it really worth double the rage cost for another 50-100 damage? I've tried two different rotations so far.
First is Bladestorm on CD, Rend up, slam spam until Overpower/Sudden Death, if I get both at the same time I execute-overpower in case my 90% crit overpowers proc another execute.
The second is Bladestorm on CD, Rend up, MS on CD, venting rage with slam until procs, etc.
I've noticed, after about an hour on the 70 training dummies in IF.. that the first does noticeably more damage (to the tune of 150-200 dps) than the second. Not only that, but I was using more GCD's and spending less time sitting around scratching my *** with the first rotation, and was seeing more Overpowers simply because I was getting more hits (potential crits-deep wounds for TFB procs/Sudden Death procs.)
So... yay, our 31 point talent is next to useless in PvE except as a rage dump? This can't be right, and I'm fairly confused. (this is with axe spec)
Edited, Oct 25th 2008 10:14pm by Banatu
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Slam delays your next white attack by the cast bar duration. While MS is more damage, it is 2x the rage and a longer cooldown.
Slam is actually very nice, but I'd keep MS on cooldown, overpower when you can, upkeep rend, execute when you can (glyph it). Slam is nice when your just ... waiting. All your CD's are cooling, and you havn't had a proc yet. Then slam.
Slam is nicely improved, as you don't need a auto attack swing timer anymore. You just have to watch your ability cooldowns.
Slam is actually very nice, but I'd keep MS on cooldown, overpower when you can, upkeep rend, execute when you can (glyph it). Slam is nice when your just ... waiting. All your CD's are cooling, and you havn't had a proc yet. Then slam.
Slam is nicely improved, as you don't need a auto attack swing timer anymore. You just have to watch your ability cooldowns.
Which.. really doesn't answer my question. You're recommending that I keep MS on cooldown and drop my dps by 100+? Sweet.
It might be the fact that sans raid buffs, I don't have the rage generation to keep MS on cooldown.. I'll test it again tonight or tomorrow with an enhancement shaman.
Edited, Oct 26th 2008 11:06pm by Banatu
It might be the fact that sans raid buffs, I don't have the rage generation to keep MS on cooldown.. I'll test it again tonight or tomorrow with an enhancement shaman.
Edited, Oct 26th 2008 11:06pm by Banatu
Banatu wrote:
Which.. really doesn't answer my question. You're recommending that I keep MS on cooldown and drop my dps by 100+? Sweet.
It might be the fact that sans raid buffs, I don't have the rage generation to keep MS on cooldown.. I'll test it again tonight or tomorrow with an enhancement shaman.
It might be the fact that sans raid buffs, I don't have the rage generation to keep MS on cooldown.. I'll test it again tonight or tomorrow with an enhancement shaman.
Actually he did answer your question ... MS is more damage ... which is why you should use it as often as it's available. And I'm not how using MS over Slam would drop your DPS ...
Slam should be used when Overpower / Execute haven't proc'd and MS is on cooldown.
If you're noticing a DPS decrease because you're waiting to build rage in order to use MS, then rage would be your problem.. although I'm not sure why - practicing on the 70 training dummies, I noticed an abundance of rage, and enough for MS whenever it was available.
However, I'll give your figures the benefit of the doubt, and try a spam slam rotation, see how that compares to a rotation where I use MS when available.
If you don't have the rage to keep MS on cooldown while still slam spamming with TFB and SD procs then it's better to forgo it. It's a proven fact that slam has a much better rage to dmg ratio than MS, period. However raid buffed I have had no trouble keeping it on cooldown along with my slam spam and TFB/SD procs.
Truth be told I actually have more trouble dumping rage.
Truth be told I actually have more trouble dumping rage.
Jimpadan wrote:
Truth be told I actually have more trouble dumping rage.
That's the bottom line ... you shouldn't be having rage problems ... seriously, not even if you aren't raid buffed.
Well.. I don't get it, then, though I'd agree that I'm more than a little rage starved. I just don't get why >.<
Armory Linkz My gear isn't terrible, even though it's a PvP/PvE clusterfcuk at the moment.
Armory has me in battle.
And sorry for getting snippy earlier. >.<
Edited, Oct 27th 2008 10:49pm by Banatu
Armory Linkz My gear isn't terrible, even though it's a PvP/PvE clusterfcuk at the moment.
Armory has me in battle.
And sorry for getting snippy earlier. >.<
Edited, Oct 27th 2008 10:49pm by Banatu
Ok, a few points I picked up ...
- you don't have trauma - but that's only a buff do bleed damage, and subsequently overall DPS ... but that's not what you're asking about.
- You haven't taken Strength of arms, the extra str would increase damage dealt, which would improve rage gen. The expertise would help eliminate dodges and parries - both of which would affect rage gen ... can't hit - can't generate rage.
- Most importantly, however, imo, is the lack of blood frenzy .. aside from the damage buff ... it's also a haste buff - and haste is very definitely a contributing factor to rage gen.
Now I understand you're PvP spec'd, and can appreciate that you may have forgone these pure DPS talents to get the PvP ones ...but it's those little dps talents (especially SoA and BF) which could be the difference between decent rage gen and rage starvation ... re-iterate ... COULD be.
Another thing .. your AP is a touch low, if you don't mind me saying .. SoA may fix that a little, but with AP that low, you're also going to struggle with Rage gen. As a comp .. my crit is 37% (zerker) with a shade over 2k AP ... and that's crafted Blues and Epics, quested Blues and a green (for shame) and S1 PvP epics. Again, I accept that's necessary for PvP (You'd probably sacrifice Sta for any extra AP ... my Health pool is a LOT lower than yours), but it could be a reason you're struggling.
- you don't have trauma - but that's only a buff do bleed damage, and subsequently overall DPS ... but that's not what you're asking about.
- You haven't taken Strength of arms, the extra str would increase damage dealt, which would improve rage gen. The expertise would help eliminate dodges and parries - both of which would affect rage gen ... can't hit - can't generate rage.
- Most importantly, however, imo, is the lack of blood frenzy .. aside from the damage buff ... it's also a haste buff - and haste is very definitely a contributing factor to rage gen.
Now I understand you're PvP spec'd, and can appreciate that you may have forgone these pure DPS talents to get the PvP ones ...but it's those little dps talents (especially SoA and BF) which could be the difference between decent rage gen and rage starvation ... re-iterate ... COULD be.
Another thing .. your AP is a touch low, if you don't mind me saying .. SoA may fix that a little, but with AP that low, you're also going to struggle with Rage gen. As a comp .. my crit is 37% (zerker) with a shade over 2k AP ... and that's crafted Blues and Epics, quested Blues and a green (for shame) and S1 PvP epics. Again, I accept that's necessary for PvP (You'd probably sacrifice Sta for any extra AP ... my Health pool is a LOT lower than yours), but it could be a reason you're struggling.
Winfury!
LotP or Rampage!
Unleashed Rage!
These things make arms warriors pve friendly.
LotP or Rampage!
Unleashed Rage!
These things make arms warriors pve friendly.
This spec is what I was using when I did the testing, after that I went pvp to try to hack it in some skirmishes.. but apprently clicker mage + rusty warrior = failure.
Going to try to get a feral and an enhancement shaman to do testing.. just hard to get them both online at the same time rofl. Also, no sunders on the target. I'll put them up then start the meter, and see if it makes a difference (refreshing them every 30 seconds wouldn't undo the rage gains over those 30 seconds, I'm thinking.)
I'll try to log out in my pve set tonight, I had a few extra pvp pieces on for battleground zergfests.
Edit: okay, stats.
AP: 2040
Crit (battle): 37.9%
Hit: 143 (9.07%)
ArP: 8%
Expertise: 2.75%
S2 axe with savagery, I'd put executioner on it but.. meh, wrath is just around the bend >.<
Edited, Oct 28th 2008 5:50pm by Banatu
Going to try to get a feral and an enhancement shaman to do testing.. just hard to get them both online at the same time rofl. Also, no sunders on the target. I'll put them up then start the meter, and see if it makes a difference (refreshing them every 30 seconds wouldn't undo the rage gains over those 30 seconds, I'm thinking.)
I'll try to log out in my pve set tonight, I had a few extra pvp pieces on for battleground zergfests.
Edit: okay, stats.
AP: 2040
Crit (battle): 37.9%
Hit: 143 (9.07%)
ArP: 8%
Expertise: 2.75%
S2 axe with savagery, I'd put executioner on it but.. meh, wrath is just around the bend >.<
Edited, Oct 28th 2008 5:50pm by Banatu
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