my feral dps just owned a 70...Follow

apparently feral is OP because i just took down a 70 tank druid, and humiliated a hunter, along with a warrior friend of mine and so on. instant 1k mangles and 2-3k ferocious bites...and my gear is green and bits of blues. you guys think that they are actually OP or did i just gear him right(considering my lvl)? if so do you think we will get nerfed in next patch?

oh yeah and know that some of my gear has hit rating, but i dont care i like not missing those instacrits :)

Sorry, I don't get your logic. You're suggesting that feral druids may be OP because a level 66 (per armory) feral druid took down a level 70...feral druid?

OK you technically said "tank druid" but dps and tank aren't quite separate trees yet. You must just mean they had more tank-centric talents than you do which I guess would mean you think you have a more dps-focused build (which I would disagree with based on no Naturalist and no Omen of Clarity). Or that they stayed in bear form for the whole fight, lol, which would be dumb. Regardless, I'd guess that most DPS- and Tank-focused feral druids have 80% of the same talents (just a guess, don't count or quote me on that, I'm making a point...) so you beating a level 70 despite the huge level difference (and everybody knows 69 to 70 is the biggest jump of all as it opens up a whole WORLD of purple gear) indicates that you rule and they suck. Simple as that, in my book.

You mentioned humiliating a hunter too, but then said it was "with your warrior friend and so on" and I don't know what that means. Just says to me there's other factors in the fight. If you're "humiliating" ANY level 70 toon at level 66 then either you are OP, or your opponent needs to L2P.

I will say that I feel like I've been doing better in PvP action since the patch, though, so do think the changes have benefitted us ferals in that regard. The new talents gave us improved burstiness, control, and survivability. Yay for us, but I don't think anybody considers feral druids anything near OP in 1:1 PvP.


P.S. By the way, I don't think I'm the only fellow feral that would shake their head at a few things in your spec, namely 0/5 Furor and 5/5 Feral Aggression coupled with 0/5 Ferocity. Frankly such build "decisions" make me doubt your ability to look at a spec and decide that a given feral druid, for example, is a "tank druid." I'm just sayin.

Edited, Oct 24th 2008 9:20am by JeeBar

Compared to Rogue

Considering the only way a rogue can hit over 1k on a normal Combo Point ability is if he crits, and 3k is out of the question unless an evis or envenom crit.

Tiger/cat druids get 60% perma movement speed, which rogue can only get 70% for 15 seconds. Druids can pop bleed effects, and movement impairing effects, and can also stun for a pretty long time. They can shapeshift whenever they want, pop instant-heals and heal 10k in about 5 seconds. They can stealth, they can move faster in stealth.

In general, yeah, i'd say Druid is OP.

LOL, this isn't the first post of mine that's generated that kinda response -- I think maybe need to go over to roll a rogue so I can go over their famously nasty forum and vent my sarcasm and nastiness so i can be a fulltime carebear in here. : )

Really, though? I can't believe I got a "harsh" about a response in which I said with no sarcasm at all the the original poster "rules" and is "overpowered." I was actually just trying to answer his question. Thanks for at least pointing out that I made some points, lol.



It's been my experience that resilience makes a HUGE difference in PvP. Now that I'm pushing 300 I live a gazillion times longer than I used to. Note that the OP has zero resilience and should be easy prey for any level 70 toon. So to reiterate or maybe more clearly state my point: Something was imbalanced or "not right" about that fight in which a 66 druid pwned a 70.

Seacrest out.

I'll join the RetPally chorus!

In AV I tried full PvP gear (350 or so resil) and full tanking gear (halfway through Hyjal & BT) both in bear form and several times got smashed by ret pallys 1v1 in under 5 seconds. I hit mangle and don't get a chance for a 2nd mangle :(

Just crazy/ridiculous. Other times it took them longer to kill me but I don't think I ever saw a ret pally killed with less than 3 players attacking them. Just crazy!

dude lol the one that you posted had 3/3 Natural Reaction....why would i pick that trying to be dps???or am i missing something?

Umm... We are trying to help. Sloniah scolded JeeBar for being slightly mean as that is not the way of the druid fourms. You are being confrontational for no reason, which for a new comer is not a good idea.

Your attitude sucks, much like your spec. You seemed unsure why people said as much. Well I will tell you.

Lets start with what you should have at level 66. I am assuming judging from your gear that you mainly solo play as the armory tells when gear is from instances and you only have one such piece. This matters for DPS as solo and instance DPS differ in how they work. Level 66 DPS spec for a mainly solo play feral.

Ferocity(5/5): Makes your primary attack, Mangle, cheaper. This will enable faster combo point generation. Which leads to faster kills.

Furor (4/5): Enables you to have energy as soon as you switch into cat form. Only 4/5 due to the new energy mechanic. The other point goes into Imp Mark to make you buff stronger. More so because the 5th point is less effective than the other 4 and it can be spent else where to better effect.

Naturalist (5/5): Gives you 10% more damage. That is a huge increase for the amount of points spent. You take it and go for it as soon as you get Mangle.

Omen of Clarity : This talent is a far greater increase in DPS than Berserk for a DPS build. If you don't believe me go to elitistjerks.com they do math. They are not as nice as us but if you doubt me try find the reference or post there and ask.

The wasted points. These are points that just don't help DPS that much at all compared to points spent elsewhere.

Imp Mangle: The points can have a greater impact on personal DPS elsewhere. The effect is far stronger for bears. The energy cost reduction is weak considering how deep in the tree it is.

Feral Aggression, SotF, RnT, Berserk. Its isn't so much any one of these just that the combo of all of them doesn't let you take the DPS gold in the resto tree. Plus many of them are more instance DPS or bear oriented. As they relate to Maul and Shred rotations.

The spec I listed gives you the increases from 3 points in Feral Aggression; as I assuming you love dumping big energy into Ferocious Bite. Which is a DPS loser unless it kills the mobs outright and there are no more mobs to kill before all that energy regenerates. Which is why the points in Rend and Tear are not very well spent. Especially if you are not using Shred all time in an instance DPS rotation.

Seriously, your spec is seeming like it wants to be a level 80 DPS spec but is missing points and a definite rotation plan. You are guessing and trying to figure things out. That is good. But mechanics are immutable. Ferocious Bite is a DPS loser when done with over 35 energy if I recall in any serious rotation and feral DPS rotations will be complex at a high level with the addition of Savage Roar at level 75.

Ferocious Bite has good burst. That combined with the resilience nerf is why you are winning duels. Duels are not a good measure of DPS. If you are trying to PvP then again your spec is weird. You want Primal Tenacity and Natural Shapeshifter for a serious PvP build. A PvP build would be more based on keeping up bleeds and burst with good survivability. This is what I would do for a level 70 generic PvP build . PvP is not my game so I could be off on that one.

Yes, druids tank as bear form. They also have different specs than cat druids. With some differences in gear selection as well. Ferocity as previously stated is for all feral specs. Primal Tenacity is a PvP oriented talent, more so now that the tree is bigger with less extra points to spend on electives. Other points where made in other parts of this post.

But hey that's just my opinion.

/rogue-off

in all seriousness i dont understand how natural reaction is for dps...i dont use bear form at all, and as far as i know im not gearing bear side, im not trying to be offensive, im just trying to understand your point of view

Look man, this is in general a pretty nice place to come get answers. You weren't asking, you were bragging and that rubs people the wrong way. Especially when experienced people look at your gear/spec and know that five things were possible in your pvp escapade.

1. Player was AFK.
2. Player was in horrible gear
3. Player is very unskillful.
4. You mean Dueling which is the most horrible possible version of PVP.
4. Combination of the above.

I don't know how to make that sound less harsh than it does, so if it upsets you, sorry.



Personal decision vs tried, tested and true fact means that people are going to tell you that you need to do this. Your personal decision to not do it means either you don't care about being better or you already think you're the best you can be. Either way you are/were wrong.



This really comes into play with that whole dueling thing. Dueling is a horrible version of PVP. Real PVP comes into play when you're defending/attacking a node, carrying a flag, hauling **** across a map and get knocked off your ride. That's when Furor is king. You aren't always going to be stealthed and have an opportunity to get the jump on your enemies.



Again, if you are killing people with FB in less than 10 seconds, then they are in HORRIBLE gear. I can't say anything else. I could do the math, but a S3 rogue took a good 45 seconds to kill me in AV a few days after patch when I was still feral and in my dps gear. I just don't see a 66 with decent gear nuking a 70 in decent (70)! gear in 10 seconds. Just doesn't happen.



Good call on the respec. I see you've done some work since this last post. The people are here to help you. If you don't want help or can't take constructive criticism, don't bother boasting on our forum.

Well, you didn't mislead anyone. But I'll let you take that step back into humility.

If you had come here for leveling advice, you would have done it at 36, not 66. Now that we've shown you a better way to do things, hopefully that WILL give you the advantage in not only pvp, but also pve and maximizing your dps in cat form.

We can only give you the tools to succeed, you have to actually put the effort into using them. Telling us "it's my discretion, I don't THINK that makes it a non dps spec" is fine. You're right, it is your choice and your enjoyment at stake. We can only give you advice. But don't forget :P right is right.

I mangle spammed mobs unless they were 3 levels above me or higher. Just pull with FFF and spam mangle. It's much more time efficient than, stealth, pounce, Mangle, Shred, mangle....

Now that second part is what I do if they are 3 levels or higher above me. That way I don't take much damage and get a good chunk out of the way before they have a chance to hit me.

If you plan on doing any end game raiding with this toon, then please, come back and ask why it's energy inefficient to use FB more than on the last mob of a pull.

Edited: spaaaaling failure!

Edited, Oct 27th 2008 7:29am by Galenmoon