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#52 Oct 22 2008 at 1:31 PM Rating: Decent

Zafire

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Seriously, aside from Puncturing Wounds, ANYTHING adds more DPS then 6% poison proc chance. Especially on other rogues, you wÃll occassionaly be using rupture. 6-sec burst is nice, but you can't play ALL 6-sec. Imp EA allows you to start off a fight with a 5 point EA and a reasonable amount of energy left, which will ocassionaly be good as well. And Remorseless... is actually a lot more effective in the BG's now than it used to be. I've had killing streaks of more than 2 players pretty much every BG I've joined so far. Remorseless would've given me about 60% crit chance on my next mutilate... Which in is an extra combo point as well.

Well, I dumped vile and went 5/5 Imp Poisons. Like I said, Imp EA murders burst damage. Only time i'd ever consider using EA is on a warlock, so their 600% armor transformation sucks. At least, i'd imagine it would. Or on a priest that turns into that shadow ball and takes pretty much no physical damage, EA then vanish, open with CS then assault. But why 2 talent points so EA can do 10 energy less? I'm going to recover all my energy waiting to CS the priest.

Remorseless Attacks isn't there everytime I want it to be, Imp Poisons is. I might consider Blood Splatter for warriors/other rogues, but in GENERAL Imp Poisons can add some nice damage in a 6 second assault. The normal rotation is Cheap Shot - Hemo Hemo, Cold Blood Evis, spam hemo until 5 pt's or out of energy. Not doing that greatly hurts the damage I am doing. I can do 6k~8k to a non prot warrior like that in 10~ seconds.

I did post the wrong spec on my above link, forgot to go to "Link to this build". Whoops. it's fixed now.

Edited, Oct 23rd 2008 1:19am by Zafire

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Hume male, Zafire, Server: Sylph
50DNC, 50SMN, 50BRD, 50SAM, 50DRG, 50WHM, 52THF, 52COR, 52MNK, 58BST, 60WAR, 67PLD, 69PUP, 75RNG, 75SCH, 75BLM, 80NIN, 80DRK, 85BLU, 85RDM
Retired since February 2011.
All SJ's capped for LVL99!

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#53 Oct 23 2008 at 4:15 AM Rating: Excellent

__DEL__1591861898581

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but in GENERAL Imp Poisons can add some nice damage in a 6 second assault.

What do you consider 'nice damage'? If you put FIVE points in it it gives a 10% increased proc chance for about 200 damage. In a 6-sec burst, it's safe to assume it only procs once. And heck, that's being royal... 10% chance on 6 attacks /=/ 1 'guaranteed proc'.

Using those 5 points like this gives you
A) 30% damage on rupture and garotte. Even when assuming your gear is so sucky a 5 point rupture only deals 1200 damage (is that even possible?) you'd still add 0.3 * 1200 = 360 damage to your rupture, which is more than a poison proc.
B) A 20 energy EA, which definitely has it's uses
AND C) Remorseless, which should be active quite a lot in an avarage BG, giving you a 40% higher chance to deal at least 800 extra damage on your next Mutilate.

I seriously can't see how a 10% poison proc weighs up to all that. On avarage it's at most 600 damage and that's assuming the battle lasts half a minute; and if it does, you will be using either Rupture or EA.

Edited, Oct 23rd 2008 2:16pm by Mozared

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#54 Oct 23 2008 at 11:27 AM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1624234677071

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Mozared is right in this case. Imp Poisons has no place in PvP.

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#55 Nov 01 2008 at 6:14 AM Rating: Decent

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Thanks for all of the comments everyone, it's been really useful getting your thoughts.

As an update for anyone that's read this thread and is wondering how it panned out:
I went with Zafire's build (his last one, minus Imp Poisons), and it worked really well for me. Imp Eviscerate along with Cold Blood were where most of my damage came from, and I got a few crits of over 4k damage on some badly geared clothed classes. Fleet footed was also useful for catching hunters and warlocks that were trying to kite me. Deadly Brew is good because it effectively gives you 3 poisons instead of 2. It was pretty much a case of opening CS, spamming Hemo and following up with Evis, and I found myself rarely using much other than these, even KS was not used that often. This worked well in terms of doing more damage in BGs and getting more kills (compared to my previous ShS build), which is pretty much what I wanted. I've since accumulated a few more bits of S2 PVP gear, and am only a few short of full epics.

I've decided now to give VARP a go. I've seen Theo's link to the top rated rogues, and they all use similar, so it's got to be worth a try. I've only just respecced (yesterday); I had a quick go and I need to give it some time, but I may or may not come back and leave my thoughts.

Thanks again for the advice people.

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#56 Nov 01 2008 at 7:09 AM Rating: Good

__DEL__1593369802602

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Mozared wrote:

I seriously can't see how a 10% poison proc weighs up to all that. On avarage it's at most 600 damage and that's assuming the battle lasts half a minute; and if it does, you will be using either Rupture or EA.

Edited, Oct 23rd 2008 2:16pm by Mozared

Zaph has repeatedly said he doesn't use EA. And he doesn't have the talents in blood spatter b/c he probably doesn't understand how to 5-8 a warrior, and probably hadn't thought about stopping a vanish w/ rupture against another rogue. Zaph you're throwing away damage left and right w/o DWS. You've obviously never really tried mutilate, I have more energy than I know what to do with. With relentless strikes, I can bust out 2 mutilates and an pretty much guaranteed 5pt eviserate, and STILL have about 50 energy left (with vigor and 4pc glad bonus). You're an idiot.

There's about 10 things I wanted to reply to in this thread, but it's early and don't want to f*ck up the rest of my day.

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