Sword PvP Build?Follow

Hemo under Overkill is 25 energy.
Mutilate under Overkill is 50 energy.

Learn2Overkill

Theo's right. Hemo is effectively 35 energy for 1 combo point. Mutilate is 60 for 2, aka 30 for 1. Hemo under overkill = 25 energy per combo point. So is muti under overkill. Combine that with the higher DPE and the fact that you've got other options when you need a quick strike/combo (I use Shiv, but perhaps SS would be better) and the matter is pretty much settled.

The idea of the spec is nice, but some things strike even me as pointless. I recently specced out of Vile Poisons because I found I really don't need it anymore. Not to mention I really don't think 6% increased poison chance gives you bang for your bucks... I'd pick Remorseless over that, tbh.

Sticking with an OHP build made purely for an opening burst, I'd probably go with something like this... And cry about the loss of 5/5 Relentless. Alternatively you could simply continue to a Mut/Prep build without prep... (This rather, but the other one's what I got). I urge you to simply give it a try. Missing prep hurts, but that's about it. Focused Attacks gives you loads of bang for your bucks, and so does Mutilate. Apperantly especially with off-hand spec. It plays pretty much the same, but it does the job better.

I'm not even sure if that's possible. I haven't got the maths on it (I hate maths in fact, I'll leave that to Theo), but I really can't remember ever having a Mutilate on which 1 hit crit and the other didn't.



Focussed Attacks. It's actually not uncommon for me to have gained 6 to 10 energy out of it by this time.



How much do your Hemo's hit/crit for? On cloth? On plate?



That is one of the three reasons why I picked the spec with Serrated and Elusiveness over the one with Dual Wield spec. Dual Wield spec would be better for pure burst, however.

This build (with Elusiveness) is pretty much THE Mutilate build. Taking anything else doesn't make much sense. I don't understand which horrible Mut specs that you're seeing without it.


Edited, Oct 21st 2008 5:12pm by ACEJester

I introduced the 41/5/15 build (to this particular thread, not as my brainchild; not trying to take credit where it is not due) and I definitely had elusiveness in mind, so that was not an issue.

I like to see people thinking outside the box, thats what Zaf has done and it is always necessary for discovering new and improved techniques. However, due to the responses on this forum (or the drinks ive had during happy hour) I would say most people are going away from the dubbed "Overkill Prep" combo.

All I can say is try both in arena and in BG, whichever you enjoy most, and see what happens.

P.S. Muti even without Prep is so effective against druids (1700 bracket rogue/rogue because its my brother, so im not UBAR LEET, but I wouldn't say I am very sh*tty either). With 50% proc on crip poison effectively and adding an escape artist (yea yea gnome QQ but humans aren't UBER FTW anymore=P) and that muti DPS they dont do so hot=)

Now, what to do about those damn ret paladins when im caught out of stealth, or even in it sometimes!

Edited, Oct 21st 2008 10:01pm by Zisikpus

I couldn't disagree more with this point. Gear does not make you a good player. Gear enhances good players, but it doesn't make 'em. I've been smoked by weaker-geared players and destroyed better-geared ones (I'm mediocre at PvP, at best). Gear helps, but that's it.

Also, given the same time commitment I think (and please someone correct me if I'm wrong here) that you can score enough arena points to get, say, an off-hand as you can with honor points to get a lesser quality off-hand. To clarify: Given 2 players of average skill, one does arena 5 hours a week, the other does BGs 5 hours a week. I think they would both earn enough of their respective points to get their PvP off-hand weapon at very close to the same time. The only difference is that the arena-point weapon has much better stats than the honor-point one. Again, someone please correct me if this view is in error.

Not trying to start any fires here, just pointing out some what I feel are important details.

A simple way to end this debate is to put that simply a spec in a battleground is merely either for experimentation or for fun, for example I've seen a couple of rogues with brutal shoulders who are Premed/Seal Fate in BG's just because they find it more fun.

I don't believe that Zafire is trying to convince us all that his spec is superior to mutilate for arenas or PvE, but simply that he prefers it in BG's as it is either fun to play as or, from his perception, "better"

I'm honestly done with this thread. Zafire is obviously too stupid and enamored with his build to see logic, reason, and math pointed out to him.

I've tried the build. It's fun. It does decent up front damage, much like a weaker mutilate.

But it sucks if you seriously consider it for anything. Mutilate is better than it for BGs. VARP is better than it for arena.

End of story; I'm done replying to Zafire. I'll continue to rate down every retarded post he makes, but I won't reply. He's obviously not doing the math.

It's not that overkill prep is a bad build for battlegrounds or duels (if you don't have daggers), if that's your thing, it's more that Zafire's version isn't the best version of that build. There are some really stupid point decisions, like imp poisons and not maxing out relentless.

Well, what else can you spec?

3 in Improved Evis
3 in Ruthlessness
1 in Vigor
5 in Lethality

That's 17 talent points. That leaves you with:

Remorseless Attacks
Blood Splatter
Improved Expose Armor
Puncturing Wounds
Vile Poisons
Imp. Poisons

To spend 3 talents on. Imp EA isn't a good idea, because you should be using evis when you get 5 combo points. Blood Splatter isn't good, because you should be opening with Cheap Shot for 3 combo points and using evis, not rupture or garrote. Puncturing Wounds doesn't do anything for you, and Remorseless Attacks isn't effective in ANYTHING outside grinding.

That leaves Vile or Imp. Poisons. The only thing that will add damage is Imp. Poisons. You could always do vile over Imp. Poisons, but if you choose vile you'd have to put 2 combo points into Imp. KS or Quick Recovery, neither which help a 6-second burst build (with swords). So I just chose 5 imp. poisons.

I was also considering this:

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fhe0oxgoV0oZZe0rbhhkdG

Gives 10% damage for 6 sec's. 2% more damage then my current build, more increased stealth, plus adds 4% attack. But I lose Deadly Brew, and my second evis wouldn't have the % damage increase unless I vanish'd.



Well what are you supposed to do when your 2v2 partner isn't on? Or he's doing something else? Exactly..you do BG's. And VARP isn't good for BG's. It's really, really not. Maybe if you get someone that's on all the time and likes to arena a lot, I suppose. But again - Being at the mercy of your partner isn't exactly something you can rely on. The average player isn't like the average player on allakhazam.



That still wouldn't do too good. My build has more surviablity through Heightened Senses, faster mobility through Camouflage, Dirty Tricks, and Initiative. A Rogue with my build would roll the floor with someone of that Mut build, simply because you're restricted to one vanish, and you are at a disadvantage for the first hit. Theo also agree's that:



It's like a weaker mut with more tools, mobility, and survivability then a regular mut build. I agree, VARP is better for arena and mut is better for BG's. Overkill prep is STILL the most viable sword build as it stands for BG's, and it does decently in arena. At least, it does better then Mut in arena.

I really don't see how this build is "retarded", because it's very effective in any situation PvP. A hybrid sword spec, I guess.



Edited, Oct 22nd 2008 5:04pm by Zafire