I initially titled this post as "Tanking weapon speed", but I realised that's not exactly what I'm asking. Prot is now no longer a simple tanking tree, it's a pretty decent solo / leveling tree, as well as a viable PvP tree as well. And, oh yeah, you can do a bit of decent tanking as prot as well ;-)
My question is, will an ultra fast weapon still be the weapon of choice for a prot warrior. The way I saw it, is that the faster the weapon, the more HS's .. more HS's meant more threat.
With all the really cool threat generators around now (SS, TC, SW), I see HS's role as being less important. The fact that devistate is weapon damage based also waves the flag for the higher damage weapon, not higher speed.
So, I have 2 "tanking weapons" on my warrior, neither are fantastic, but neither are utter trash either (Grom'Tors, and Inuuro's Blade). The thing is, from my pre 3.0 fury days, I have the Wicked Edge of the Planes, which seems to be a vastly better option with the new prot tree than either of the other 2 weapons.
My perspective ... I plan to level as prot (well, still haven't decided that 100% yet) and do the occasional instance. This current gear issue is really only applicable to about level 75, when I'm pretty sure I'll have picked up something better. The overall conceptual question still remains ... Faster speed, or higher damage for tanking.
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Prot weapon speedFollow
with glyph of revenge, you get free hs's after a successful revenge. I'd say faster weapons are more useful now than when we they where before 3.0.2.
Just for grinding; I don't get hit very often in prot gear soloing, and I need rage, I end up using revenge over devastate from rage desire. and then i get a free SS and a HS.
Shield slam is going to be our biggest inherent threat. with revenge on the sword and board list, and doing phenomenal damage as well, your weapon plays little role in tanking for threat.
But, the stats on the weapon DO matter.
You want your revenge's SS and HS to hit, so hit, expertise, are going to be more valuable than pure dps/slow weapons for devastate.
Just for grinding; I don't get hit very often in prot gear soloing, and I need rage, I end up using revenge over devastate from rage desire. and then i get a free SS and a HS.
Shield slam is going to be our biggest inherent threat. with revenge on the sword and board list, and doing phenomenal damage as well, your weapon plays little role in tanking for threat.
But, the stats on the weapon DO matter.
You want your revenge's SS and HS to hit, so hit, expertise, are going to be more valuable than pure dps/slow weapons for devastate.
devioususer wrote:
with glyph of revenge, you get free hs's after a successful revenge. I'd say faster weapons are more useful now than when we they where before 3.0.2.
Just for grinding; I don't get hit very often in prot gear soloing, and I need rage, I end up using revenge over devastate from rage desire. and then i get a free SS and a HS.
Shield slam is going to be our biggest inherent threat. with revenge on the sword and board list, and doing phenomenal damage as well, your weapon plays little role in tanking for threat.
But, the stats on the weapon DO matter.
You want your revenge's SS and HS to hit, so hit, expertise, are going to be more valuable than pure dps/slow weapons for devastate.
Just for grinding; I don't get hit very often in prot gear soloing, and I need rage, I end up using revenge over devastate from rage desire. and then i get a free SS and a HS.
Shield slam is going to be our biggest inherent threat. with revenge on the sword and board list, and doing phenomenal damage as well, your weapon plays little role in tanking for threat.
But, the stats on the weapon DO matter.
You want your revenge's SS and HS to hit, so hit, expertise, are going to be more valuable than pure dps/slow weapons for devastate.
Can I simplify (ie, put it in my own remedial language ;->).
From a Threat Perspective : Weapon is largely irrelevant (speed or damage wise), as Shield slam / conc blow / shockwave is Power (str / ap, etc) based.
From a Rage Perepstive : Faster is better, mainly due to the HS (better with faster weapon) proc from revenge, and revenge costing less than devistate.
From a stats perspective : Hit / Expertise > all (as usual).
So essentially, what I'm reading is that I'd be better off with a pure "tanking" weapon with a prot build than an all out damage weapon, regardless of how I intend playing the spec (solo or instancing). Inuuro's is looking like a good bet.
*sniff* ... oh well, my wicked edge served me well when I was 1h fury (which I can never go back to, having experience TG which, despite the nay-sayers, is the only way to play DW fury)
Assuming you're not using a dagger, weapon stats nd DPS are going to be the most important stuff. But the "one free HS every six seconds" actually benefits slow weapons, not fast ones.
Hi
Yeap I ve tried the I innuro too. Very-very nice sword for soloing-tanking.
71.8 damage is nice
+Expertise
+Stamina
+hit rating
+Def rating
Speed: Dagger-fast sword!!
(As for Heroic Strikes hm...You mean on boss fights-right? I just use it (rarely) when rage builds +80 on boss encouters and everything else is on cooldowns-need to learn more about this? I mean even If I dont do HS 's at all I still have boss on me)
What could possible one ask of a tank sword ?? ( Throw a potency :+20 strength perhaps?) - I havent put Moonglose on Innuro cause its more expensive and i m a bit low on Strength
I simply love this sword and will have a tough time to replace it later...
Wicked Edge of the Plane : looks very nice but I havent tested in so I cant really say if it would suit for tanking purposes.If I had it i would take it out for a spin and look how cool it is :))
The nice thing about innuro is that it doesnt really do massive damage (criters) by itself rather than decreasing mobs chance to avoid our High threat-high damage moves :like SS and devastates (wich now have improved dps!!).
(With this sword and the neclase -shield from the Shattar Offensive rep and Nightstrike-band of determination form mgt our hits are difficult to be avoided)
Totally agree :))
I suppose we should make a combo macro for theese 2 babes when we equip the spesific glyph?
So totally agree :))
Yeap I ve tried the I innuro too. Very-very nice sword for soloing-tanking.
71.8 damage is nice
+Expertise
+Stamina
+hit rating
+Def rating
Speed: Dagger-fast sword!!
(As for Heroic Strikes hm...You mean on boss fights-right? I just use it (rarely) when rage builds +80 on boss encouters and everything else is on cooldowns-need to learn more about this? I mean even If I dont do HS 's at all I still have boss on me)
What could possible one ask of a tank sword ?? ( Throw a potency :+20 strength perhaps?) - I havent put Moonglose on Innuro cause its more expensive and i m a bit low on Strength
I simply love this sword and will have a tough time to replace it later...
Wicked Edge of the Plane : looks very nice but I havent tested in so I cant really say if it would suit for tanking purposes.If I had it i would take it out for a spin and look how cool it is :))
The nice thing about innuro is that it doesnt really do massive damage (criters) by itself rather than decreasing mobs chance to avoid our High threat-high damage moves :like SS and devastates (wich now have improved dps!!).
(With this sword and the neclase -shield from the Shattar Offensive rep and Nightstrike-band of determination form mgt our hits are difficult to be avoided)
Quote:
My perspective ... I plan to level as prot (well, still haven't decided that 100% yet) and do the occasional instance. This current gear issue is really only applicable to about level 75, when I'm pretty sure I'll have picked up something better.
Totally agree :))
Quote:
with glyph of revenge, you get free hs's after a successful revenge. I'd say faster weapons are more useful now than when we they where before 3.0.2.
I suppose we should make a combo macro for theese 2 babes when we equip the spesific glyph?
Quote:
From a Threat Perspective : Weapon is largely irrelevant (speed or damage wise), as Shield slam / conc blow / shockwave is Power (str / ap, etc) based.
From a Rage Perepstive : Faster is better, mainly due to the HS (better with faster weapon) proc from revenge, and revenge costing less than devistate.
From a stats perspective : Hit / Expertise > all (as usual).
From a Rage Perepstive : Faster is better, mainly due to the HS (better with faster weapon) proc from revenge, and revenge costing less than devistate.
From a stats perspective : Hit / Expertise > all (as usual).
So totally agree :))
RPZip wrote:
Assuming you're not using a dagger, weapon stats nd DPS are going to be the most important stuff.
Fair enough, but ... ignoring speed ... What's better for overall prot effectiveness .... 97 dps, 48 AP, 23 Crit, or 71 dps, 13 def, 8 hit, 11 expertise, 21 sta.. Edit ... After reading this back to myself, I think I have my answer anyway. Everything's so much clearer in hindsight, innit. Maybe I should try and farm Mech heroic for a SuneaterOne weapon is clearly purely damage dealing based, one is clearly purely tanking based, and there would be absolutley no doubt in my mind which one to use as a tank pre-3.0. I'm just a little confused as to whether the same general rules apply, or if they've changed as dramatically as prot itself has changed.
RPZip wrote:
But the "one free HS every six seconds" actually benefits slow weapons, not fast ones.
You know, I cannot actually believe I didn't realise this. HS is based on weapon damage, which faster weapons give you less of. Revenge has a cooldown, so any advantage of having a faster weapon (HS Spam) is totally negated, because you can't spam it.
p.s. I guess it's time I started checking out glyphs as well, huh ? ;-) I avoided them like the plague on all my characters, as it adds more complexity than my little brain can cope with right about now ;-D But now that I've sorta settle down with specs and plans going foward ... glyphs can now take a place in my focus.
Edited, Oct 20th 2008 1:09pm by robertlofthouse
I find myself using HS or cleave at least 75% of the time now, maybe as much as 85-90%. That said, getting rage down is very hard. Without needing to spam shield block I have a lot more rage available, and combining new shield block + berserker's rage (usable in def stance now) my rage spikes to 100 and I can't do anything about it. (shield specialization gives you 2 rage per block, shield block is 100% block rage).
Anyways, fast weapons have steadier rage generation and are faster at making you spend excess rage. the way things are looking right now you want the fastest weapon you can get. Yes higher dps weapons give you more dps on devestate and HS, however you arent going to be devestating as much, the bonus damage on dev makes up a large component of it, and the excess rage issue (now that I'm not using CC anymore) can only be allieviated through fast weapons. not to mention HS still gives bonus threat which is huge.
anyways, glyph of revenge (free HS after revenge) + glyph of heroic strike (10 rage after critting on HS) + incite and cruelty + HS Rage reduction from arms tree = ridiculous rage efficiency
Anyways, fast weapons have steadier rage generation and are faster at making you spend excess rage. the way things are looking right now you want the fastest weapon you can get. Yes higher dps weapons give you more dps on devestate and HS, however you arent going to be devestating as much, the bonus damage on dev makes up a large component of it, and the excess rage issue (now that I'm not using CC anymore) can only be allieviated through fast weapons. not to mention HS still gives bonus threat which is huge.
anyways, glyph of revenge (free HS after revenge) + glyph of heroic strike (10 rage after critting on HS) + incite and cruelty + HS Rage reduction from arms tree = ridiculous rage efficiency
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