I did 45 marks worth of Eye of the Storm today, and several AB's, as it was today's daily. I got 8k honor today from just EotS and AB. I don't know how to play my Rogue anymore. Pre-update, with my current, not-so-good gear, I was typically always in the top 10 DPS. I could do ok against some classes, bad against others. I took pride in my rogue and had a lot of fun playing it.
But now? I don't know. As ShS, going 18/0/43, my top damage was 2.5k-3.5k Evis's. If I crit. Hemo does about 1.2-1.4k to non-plate crit (for me).
But..These druids wearing not so good gear, can prance around me spamming 2k regular attacks in tiger form, shamans can shoot me for 2.1k uncrit lightning bolts, warriors can 6.4k crit execute me, mages can spam instant cast 2.5k spells, shamans can throw me off cliffs, paladins just own everybody anyways, Warlocks have this retarded stun thing that stuns you for 3 sec's and does 1.4k damage.
I basically just run in and die now. I never, ever, EVER had that problem pre-update. I can maybe get lucky enough to pop some damage on someone before someone else recognizes me and starts spamming 2-3k regular non crit attacks.
Rogues that get me in stunlock don't even kill me in 10 seconds, usually. Why? Because Rogue is terrible now. They can't go ShS and get *ANY* form of spike damage at all. The basic form is in hemo, which crit doesn't even break what other classes are hitting for normally. Ambush sucks just as bad as it did, so that's not really any form of spike damage I can use.
I've tried Muti (Crappy daggers so I can't really use this as a viable build yet), I've tried Combat, i've tried sub, i've tried all sorts of crap. Probably spent about 300 gold respecc'ing now, when I was at the 15G respec to begin with. The best build i've found is Combat, which usually puts me in 10th or 11th in the DPS out of 30. Which sucks.
Shadow Dance blows. I'd rather have 2% more poison proc then that crap.
So. What the hell? What are we supposed to do? Is muti with epic daggers really the *ONLY* way to PVP now? Or is getting S5 S6 gear the only way to go?
I've only seen ONE rogue past the 5th DPS spot today in every BG i've been in.
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Hume male, Zafire, Server: Sylph
50DNC, 50SMN, 50BRD, 50SAM, 50DRG, 50WHM, 52THF, 52COR, 52MNK, 58BST, 60WAR, 67PLD, 69PUP, 75RNG, 75SCH, 75BLM, 80NIN, 80DRK, 85BLU, 85RDM
Retired since February 2011.
All SJ's capped for LVL99!
50DNC, 50SMN, 50BRD, 50SAM, 50DRG, 50WHM, 52THF, 52COR, 52MNK, 58BST, 60WAR, 67PLD, 69PUP, 75RNG, 75SCH, 75BLM, 80NIN, 80DRK, 85BLU, 85RDM
Retired since February 2011.
All SJ's capped for LVL99!
rogue is no longer about run around and roll your face on the keyboard, you need to be very sneaky and smart with your actions and cooldowns now.
Thus far in BG's I have been having good success with VARP.
That's not a combat spec, that's a hybrid spec.
Specifically, VARP (Vitality/AR/Prep).
I've been using fist/dagger with it for the SS glyph. Swords are lackluster considering I have 100+ DPS fist/dagger weapons.
So Theo, is this the best non-dagger PvP build right now?
IMO, yes, for burst teams. It has the most survivability, best mobility (ShS is weak post-patch) for the kind of damage it has. 0/18/43 is the other spec I'd do (Imp Sprint is almost required after the nerf to ShS), but it lacks damage.
With the move of Relentless Strikes, VARP is a lot more powerful than HARP ever was.
And I take it back, I've been playing VARP swords, and it's pretty nice. That's considering I have 103 DPS swords vs 100 DPS fists.
Overlord Theophany, from the sticky wrote:
Makaro wrote:
Overlord Theophany wrote:
deanonoze wrote:
Theo...trying to pull up you rogue armory and all im getting is combat sword spec 0/34/27, which actually looks pretty good. But i noticed its a pretty old spec and wondered if you had actually switched to a mut. build as you had previously planned on doing??..thanks.
That's not a combat spec, that's a hybrid spec.
Specifically, VARP (Vitality/AR/Prep).
I've been using fist/dagger with it for the SS glyph. Swords are lackluster considering I have 100+ DPS fist/dagger weapons.
So Theo, is this the best non-dagger PvP build right now?
IMO, yes, for burst teams. It has the most survivability, best mobility (ShS is weak post-patch) for the kind of damage it has. 0/18/43 is the other spec I'd do (Imp Sprint is almost required after the nerf to ShS), but it lacks damage.
With the move of Relentless Strikes, VARP is a lot more powerful than HARP ever was.
And I take it back, I've been playing VARP swords, and it's pretty nice. That's considering I have 103 DPS swords vs 100 DPS fists.
I copied a mut spec on here from somewhere and its doing very well. Im decently geared (S3/S2 with badge daggers and 300-340 resi)
I find myself playing more defensive since my stealth sucks and running after people as muti is a impending death.
As for hemo, even pre patch, i focused more on my white dmg than my hemo crist and such. Popped on Ruptures and garrotes, stun locked and a 1pt SnD with hemos in the mix.
With almost all the classes now having viable burst abilities, Muti helps combat that with its own burst and crazy CP generation. Being able to put on 3-5 point ruptures, Expose Armors, Eviscerate/Envenoms becomes a fluid instead of a chore to try and load enough CPs.
As i have read though, all the talents, traits, and abilities are made for the 80's and as 70's we dont have the hp, armor, and any other attributes to combat all this new dmg.
In my short time of playing, i have dueled and bg'd about every class. Ret pallie are a nice new fight, more action and quick thinking involved. Dismantle is mandatory.
Druids are about the same, just a few new tricks but same layout.
Disc Priests I burn through quickly, all the mutilates and Dots I land cause them to seize.
Mages are the same, just that new thing where im frozen and blow up in a nice ice cloud is something to CoS/Trinket out of.
Locks are still easy till they pop demon, then jsut vanish and wait.
Warriors, same just more stuff for us to die by or run away from.
Shaman, still lol, unless they are resto then bleh.
Holy Pally are OP when geared and specced right. I dont think its even holy, its a ret holy mix. They cant kill you fast but they never run out of mana. So its a slow, slow.... slow death.
Other rogues is just a who finds who, who uses what, and trinket game.
In all, get geared or wait. Do some raids or anything else so you wont be pvp fodder, or be fodder and get all the S2 quick since all BGs give crazy honor now, 600 from one WSG win.
Edited, Oct 17th 2008 2:04am by EziNewDream
I find myself playing more defensive since my stealth sucks and running after people as muti is a impending death.
As for hemo, even pre patch, i focused more on my white dmg than my hemo crist and such. Popped on Ruptures and garrotes, stun locked and a 1pt SnD with hemos in the mix.
With almost all the classes now having viable burst abilities, Muti helps combat that with its own burst and crazy CP generation. Being able to put on 3-5 point ruptures, Expose Armors, Eviscerate/Envenoms becomes a fluid instead of a chore to try and load enough CPs.
As i have read though, all the talents, traits, and abilities are made for the 80's and as 70's we dont have the hp, armor, and any other attributes to combat all this new dmg.
In my short time of playing, i have dueled and bg'd about every class. Ret pallie are a nice new fight, more action and quick thinking involved. Dismantle is mandatory.
Druids are about the same, just a few new tricks but same layout.
Disc Priests I burn through quickly, all the mutilates and Dots I land cause them to seize.
Mages are the same, just that new thing where im frozen and blow up in a nice ice cloud is something to CoS/Trinket out of.
Locks are still easy till they pop demon, then jsut vanish and wait.
Warriors, same just more stuff for us to die by or run away from.
Shaman, still lol, unless they are resto then bleh.
Holy Pally are OP when geared and specced right. I dont think its even holy, its a ret holy mix. They cant kill you fast but they never run out of mana. So its a slow, slow.... slow death.
Other rogues is just a who finds who, who uses what, and trinket game.
In all, get geared or wait. Do some raids or anything else so you wont be pvp fodder, or be fodder and get all the S2 quick since all BGs give crazy honor now, 600 from one WSG win.
Edited, Oct 17th 2008 2:04am by EziNewDream
Tried deep combat and I did very well against anyone with low mobility - priests, warlocks and warriors, especially the latter - I turned a Warrior friend with better gear into patte once I made him waste Disarm. So not much changed, really.
Going to try out "VARP", only with NoS over Deadliness as NoS is amazing.
Going to try out "VARP", only with NoS over Deadliness as NoS is amazing.
That was Theo's build. I personally took sword spec instead of close quarters and weapon expertise over deadliness.
Makaro wrote:
That was Theo's build. I personally took sword spec instead of close quarters and weapon expertise over deadliness.
The one he's using, certainly, although I wouldn't really say he pioneered modified HARP (and thus I am not going to call it "Theo's build" :P). Mine is a bit different, though, with parry and riposte over hit, NoS over deadliness and yeah, sword spec over close quarters.
Combat is actually kinda bloated at the moment.
I'm really enjoying combat right now it seems very viable for PVP and PVE. What weapons are you using?
Kavekk wrote:
Makaro wrote:
That was Theo's build. I personally took sword spec instead of close quarters and weapon expertise over deadliness.
The one he's using, certainly, although I wouldn't really say he pioneered modified HARP (and thus I am not going to call it "Theo's build" :P). Mine is a bit different, though, with parry and riposte over hit, NoS over deadliness and yeah, sword spec over close quarters.
Combat is actually kinda bloated at the moment.
I play double DPS so I try to squeeze as much damage potential as possible out of my build.
2 posts
if it makes u feel any better i had the same exact reaction when i first went into BG's after the patch. I've got decent gear too. (393 resil, S2 swords) From what i'm reading it seems Shadowstep is pretty much worthless now. Cant use it while rooted??? are you ******** me? welcome back to the days of getting kited endlessly. The thing that really kills me is all the time and honor i spent getting my S2 swords because i finally gave up on daggers. Now it seems mutilate is the best option, so back to daggers! thanks Blizz!! I'm doing less dmg and taking more dmg, that's fair. Why does it seem every class gets great new abilities, does much more dmg, but we get nothing PLUS a nerf?? Grated i'm going to respec and see how things change but, fer christsake, why did you have to ***** us so bad?
Yea, same here busted my but to get my S2 swords, and now its all about daggers! I am gonna try to spec Combat today when I get home from work. I had used the free patch spec for Sub, cause I hadn't really read anything about the Shs nerf.
thinking about this spec:
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/rogue/talents.html?tal=00000000000000000000000000002510520022050152031005212004300232100000000000000000000
Combat Talents - 46 point(s)
Improved Sinister Strike - rank 2/2
Dual Wield Specialization - rank 5/5
Improved Slice and Dice - rank 1/2
Precision - rank 5/5
Endurance - rank 2/2
Improved Kick - rank 2/2
Improved Sprint - rank 2/2
Aggression - rank 5/5
Blade Flurry - rank 1/1
Sword Specialization - rank 5/5
Weapon Expertise - rank 2/2
Vitality - rank 3/3
Adrenaline Rush - rank 1/1
Combat Potency - rank 5/5
Unfair Advantage - rank 2/2
Surprise Attacks - rank 1/1
Savage Combat - rank 2/2
Subtlety Talents - 15 point(s)
Relentless Strikes - rank 4/5
Master of Deception - rank 3/3
Dirty Tricks - rank 2/2
Camouflage - rank 3/3
Elusiveness - rank 2/2
Ghostly Strike - rank 1/1
any sugestions. I figure it would be decent for grinding dallies as well as BG's
Edited, Oct 18th 2008 3:40pm by deanween
thinking about this spec:
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/rogue/talents.html?tal=00000000000000000000000000002510520022050152031005212004300232100000000000000000000
Combat Talents - 46 point(s)
Improved Sinister Strike - rank 2/2
Dual Wield Specialization - rank 5/5
Improved Slice and Dice - rank 1/2
Precision - rank 5/5
Endurance - rank 2/2
Improved Kick - rank 2/2
Improved Sprint - rank 2/2
Aggression - rank 5/5
Blade Flurry - rank 1/1
Sword Specialization - rank 5/5
Weapon Expertise - rank 2/2
Vitality - rank 3/3
Adrenaline Rush - rank 1/1
Combat Potency - rank 5/5
Unfair Advantage - rank 2/2
Surprise Attacks - rank 1/1
Savage Combat - rank 2/2
Subtlety Talents - 15 point(s)
Relentless Strikes - rank 4/5
Master of Deception - rank 3/3
Dirty Tricks - rank 2/2
Camouflage - rank 3/3
Elusiveness - rank 2/2
Ghostly Strike - rank 1/1
any sugestions. I figure it would be decent for grinding dallies as well as BG's
Edited, Oct 18th 2008 3:40pm by deanween
I just discovered you can get Overkill and Prep. This is my build i'm using now.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fhxboeGoVroMZZI0fdhhzd
For the FIRST time I was #4 in DPS. Managed to kill 3 mages rezzing from graveyard at FRR today back to back. It DOES grant a lot less survivability, but the offense it gives is just amazing.
Overkill = 25 energy hemo's and 25 energy evis's
Vigor, 120 energy for me
Deadly Brew, do double instant poison and it'll add crippling too. Double instant isn't ideal, but it is pretty nice for damage. Especially with a 26% proc
Cold Blood = 4k evis's whenever you want them
Preperation cools down Cold Blood
Still get 2min vanishes and 1min CoS
Still get Malice and Lethality
2 talents in Murder and 2 in Find Weakness for 8% damage increase
My gear is pretty bad for a 70, since I hit 70 two weeks ago, but this build makes me feel awesome. I encourage you to try it.
I'm a Night Elf though, so i'm not sure if it'll work for everyone. Shadowmeld is now an instant return-to-stealth ability for me if someones attacking me from range.
No Imp. Sprint but with all the extra spike damage i'm doing, I don't really care.
Edit:
Just realized Overkill makes cheap shot cost 30 energy with this build too! ^_^
Edited, Oct 18th 2008 10:58pm by Zafire
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fhxboeGoVroMZZI0fdhhzd
For the FIRST time I was #4 in DPS. Managed to kill 3 mages rezzing from graveyard at FRR today back to back. It DOES grant a lot less survivability, but the offense it gives is just amazing.
Overkill = 25 energy hemo's and 25 energy evis's
Vigor, 120 energy for me
Deadly Brew, do double instant poison and it'll add crippling too. Double instant isn't ideal, but it is pretty nice for damage. Especially with a 26% proc
Cold Blood = 4k evis's whenever you want them
Preperation cools down Cold Blood
Still get 2min vanishes and 1min CoS
Still get Malice and Lethality
2 talents in Murder and 2 in Find Weakness for 8% damage increase
My gear is pretty bad for a 70, since I hit 70 two weeks ago, but this build makes me feel awesome. I encourage you to try it.
I'm a Night Elf though, so i'm not sure if it'll work for everyone. Shadowmeld is now an instant return-to-stealth ability for me if someones attacking me from range.
No Imp. Sprint but with all the extra spike damage i'm doing, I don't really care.
Edit:
Just realized Overkill makes cheap shot cost 30 energy with this build too! ^_^
Edited, Oct 18th 2008 10:58pm by Zafire
Hume male, Zafire, Server: Sylph
50DNC, 50SMN, 50BRD, 50SAM, 50DRG, 50WHM, 52THF, 52COR, 52MNK, 58BST, 60WAR, 67PLD, 69PUP, 75RNG, 75SCH, 75BLM, 80NIN, 80DRK, 85BLU, 85RDM
Retired since February 2011.
All SJ's capped for LVL99!
50DNC, 50SMN, 50BRD, 50SAM, 50DRG, 50WHM, 52THF, 52COR, 52MNK, 58BST, 60WAR, 67PLD, 69PUP, 75RNG, 75SCH, 75BLM, 80NIN, 80DRK, 85BLU, 85RDM
Retired since February 2011.
All SJ's capped for LVL99!
You SERIOUSLY took 3/3 in Initiative over maxing out Relentless Strikes?
Are you that stupid that you've missed that EVERY ROGUE has it maxed?
Are you that stupid that you've missed that EVERY ROGUE has it maxed?
Quote:
You SERIOUSLY took 3/3 in Initiative over maxing out Relentless Strikes?
Are you that stupid that you've missed that EVERY ROGUE has it maxed?
Are you that stupid that you've missed that EVERY ROGUE has it maxed?
Yes, because 3 hemo's -> evis takes more time then 2. With Overkill energy is NO problem for 6 seconds. I have a hard enough time Cheap Shot Hemo Hemo -> Evising, because even with all my abilities key binded I can barely do that all in 4 seconds. Relentless Strikes is nice, but for PVP i'm just about doing damage as fast as I can, not so much about getting that extra 25 energy. I can get 5 combo points twice against one player before I run out of energy with this build. That's spamming abilities nonstop
It's my preference. Guess i'm a nab
Edited, Oct 19th 2008 1:31am by Zafire
Hume male, Zafire, Server: Sylph
50DNC, 50SMN, 50BRD, 50SAM, 50DRG, 50WHM, 52THF, 52COR, 52MNK, 58BST, 60WAR, 67PLD, 69PUP, 75RNG, 75SCH, 75BLM, 80NIN, 80DRK, 85BLU, 85RDM
Retired since February 2011.
All SJ's capped for LVL99!
50DNC, 50SMN, 50BRD, 50SAM, 50DRG, 50WHM, 52THF, 52COR, 52MNK, 58BST, 60WAR, 67PLD, 69PUP, 75RNG, 75SCH, 75BLM, 80NIN, 80DRK, 85BLU, 85RDM
Retired since February 2011.
All SJ's capped for LVL99!
The funny thing here is, as the game stands now, he actually has a point. Burst damage is king and an example spec that picks up ShD and leaves you spamming Ambush DOES actually win you battles.
But yeah, as soon as the Unreal Tournament aspect gets taken out of the game (I'm quite sure it will lessen from what it is atm), you're going to want a new spec.
But yeah, as soon as the Unreal Tournament aspect gets taken out of the game (I'm quite sure it will lessen from what it is atm), you're going to want a new spec.
I'm considering this, a "6 second build"
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fhxboeGoV0oZZe0fdhhzdAzV
10% damage increase, 10 less energy for 6 seconds.
Pre-med comes with this build, so can open with a 5-point evis
115% hemo's, +10% attack and +15% agility. It looks pretty good. But only time will tell
Edited, Oct 19th 2008 4:36pm by Zafire
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fhxboeGoV0oZZe0fdhhzdAzV
10% damage increase, 10 less energy for 6 seconds.
Pre-med comes with this build, so can open with a 5-point evis
115% hemo's, +10% attack and +15% agility. It looks pretty good. But only time will tell
Edited, Oct 19th 2008 4:36pm by Zafire
Hume male, Zafire, Server: Sylph
50DNC, 50SMN, 50BRD, 50SAM, 50DRG, 50WHM, 52THF, 52COR, 52MNK, 58BST, 60WAR, 67PLD, 69PUP, 75RNG, 75SCH, 75BLM, 80NIN, 80DRK, 85BLU, 85RDM
Retired since February 2011.
All SJ's capped for LVL99!
50DNC, 50SMN, 50BRD, 50SAM, 50DRG, 50WHM, 52THF, 52COR, 52MNK, 58BST, 60WAR, 67PLD, 69PUP, 75RNG, 75SCH, 75BLM, 80NIN, 80DRK, 85BLU, 85RDM
Retired since February 2011.
All SJ's capped for LVL99!
That'll only work if burst damage stays the same as it is now in tBC, which it won't, althoough it is still more agressive than old live in beta atm.
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