What to leave out of 70 ret build?Follow

Is this build for pvp, or pve?

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sZ0xZxfbtbIucMsgzAo

I'd use this.

You can literally ignore Benediction, because Judgements of the Wise grants endless mana. Deflection will lower downtime because you're taking less damage. Vindication is a pvp talent, so those points go into Impreoved judgement instead. More judges = more damage and more mana regen.

I don't think improved ret aura adds a lot of damage, so i shifted those points to Pursuit of Justice. 15% less time running around means faster leveling, or grinding etc. That one is probably more a matter of personal opinion though.Everything else is just the same! Sheath of Light is good for soloing; in a pure dps raid environment i'd put those points into swift retribution for the haste boost.

Edited, Oct 15th 2008 6:37am by ArtemisEnteri

That is a problem. If you're in a good guild, and guaranteed a raid spot as dps, i say sacrifice a little personal dps and take it. Tankadins probably need those 5 points for utility more than a ret needs them for dps.

You can rely on Seal of Blood/the Martyr, so Command isn't a must (since you wont get the bonus damage from stuns on bosses). Maybe take the other 4 out of Sanctified Seals and Crusade?

edit: Actually ***** it, let someone else pick up the tab :P

We're already giving Imp. BoMight



Edited, Oct 15th 2008 10:00am by ArtemisEnteri

What makes Deflection a PvE talent and Vindication a PvP talent?

I realize that Vindication doesn't work on some, if not all, bosses, but Squirrel said


Vindication is awesome. It lowers your target's health and damage output. I'd say it's a more reliable downtime reduction than 5% chance to parry.

Here's the build I'm going for. I'm a casual solo player who divide his time between questing, doing instances and messing about in Battlegrounds. You can pull some points out and place in Improved Blessing of Might if that's your thing. Dump the points in Blessing of Kings and put them in Divine Strength for maximum attack power sexiness.

Edit: That build is a level 80 build, but my level 70 build is pretty much the same, minus all the points in Protection.

Edited, Oct 16th 2008 1:45am by Mazra

Ruen, then we start out at 70 with no Eye for an Eye, but Divine Strength and Pursuit of Justice instead.

I took the two points from Improved Judgements and put them into Improved Blessing of Might. Two seconds on the judgements probably won't mean a lot while leveling, anyway. I'm guessing it only really shows in end-game raiding.

Upon leveling up, I suggest ending somewhere like this.

I ended up with this 0/5/56

As far as a level 80 builds go:
80 PvP - 0/18/53
80 PvE 5/5/61

As far as a level 70 PvP goes... I think I will stick with a small variation on my PvE build. 70 PvP - 0/5/56 . The reason I didnt go deeper in Prot is because I lose to much from ret at level 70. Not sure if imp HoJ makes enough of a difference to compensate.

Whoops - I actually took Vindication - just linked wrong build 0/5/56

Only difference is 2 points in imp ret aura into vindication. I don't see 3% haste being huge at the moment and we have another ret pally who took that anyway. Sanctified Wrath is awesome - 20% damage 33% more of the time? yes please :D - would probably take it over vindication as it has the + 50% crit on hammer (awesome for PvP since my hammer crits for about 2.5k).

Just a fun aside. I ran a kara yesterday with my guild with me running a dungeon as ret for the first time.

We had 4 pallies - 2 ret, 1 holy, 1 prot. The top 3 dps were the 3 pallies and I came 2nd putting out 1600 Sustained dps through the run. We killed Prince in 47 seconds and he took the longest by far of all the bosses.

45 minute Kara runs ftw :P

Battle Shout will overwrite BoM now. They no longer stack which gives BoK worth for a Ret pally.

Looking at Ruen's build, if you were to drop the points out of Imp BoM and Swift Retribution you could take Imp Kings.

I kind of like the fact there is some play here as you can sacrifice a little utility for extra dps. Nice change from what it was pre-patch.

A few questions, i am 49 palidan leveling!

Mazra: why do you in a few builds pass up the talent to reduce judgement cooldown in a few of your builds? Is it unnecessary at 70 for raiding and dungeons?

Several: I'm using imp retribution aura right now to level as I can grab a ton of mobs and use it to help kill them down, also it seems to help kill enemies a bit faster. Is retribution aura a no-no for 70 content (dungeons primarily) and imp just crap? I compare it to thorns for druids and how they can help tanks out.

To All: With the new Patch, I am debating whether I should be using the improved might over regular wisdom. Due to Judgements of the Wise, I get WAY MORE THAN ENOUGH mana per judge than I feel I should. With this, this my reasoning for keeping the talents in imp judgement.

For the curious, this is my build at 49, should be 50 plus tonight :)

Also, should I be getting Sanctified Wrath? I currently use the instant flash heal combination with increased crit chance to give myself some more survivability, especially if a pull gets nasty.

Thanks!



In case the link I tried posting for my build fails, here is the URL http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/paladin/talents.html?tal=000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000052301512033010322133000000

This is the build I'd go with for PvE DPS 0/5/56(edit1&2: learn to link).

This is a build for raids.

Swift Retribution might not be the talent that adds the most personal DPS, but it is a large increase in the entire party/raid performance.

As arthoriuss stated, Battleshout does not stack with Blessing of Might (both granting the same amount of attack power and both can be talented for another 25% bonus), but now grants attack power to everyone (not just melee). Meaning Improved Blessing of Might is an option, depending on your group set up, I'd take it if there was no Fury Warrior in my raid group.

If there are 2 Retribution Paladins in your raids you can decide that one goes with this build and
the other switch Improved Blessing of Might for Improved Retribution Aura, which should help the tanks a little.

If you decide you need Seal of Command on your build I'd take a PERSONAL DPS talent point for that, like Righteous Vengeance. Same goes for Pursuit of Justice.
If Improved Judgement hurts your rotation and you feel you need less points in it, great, you now can pick Improved Blessing of Might (If no Fury Warriors are in your raid group) or anything else that makes you all warm inside.

A word about Vindication, from soloing perspective.
I am currently leveling my Paladin (53 at the moment) and I noticed that Vindication reduces the MAXIMUM hit points of the enemy, not their current, that's a huge deal IMO, enough for me not to take it. The other aspect of it (damage reduction on mobs) is irrelevant to me, I can shrug off almost all the damage mobs do to me with procs of Judgement of Light and The Art of War.

I'll try to explain the thing with numbers I usually see (roughly).

Let's assume a mob has 3000 hit points, I open up with a normal melee and hit it for 300 immediatly followed by Vindication proc.

So now the mob is at 2700/3000 from the melee hit, and then Vindication kicks in, reducing it's maximum health to 2400/2400.
Great! I just got 300 "free" damage on the mob.
The thing that is harder to spot right on is that you can now only cast Hammer of Justice is at 840/2400 instead of 1050/3000 (excuse me if I did the numbers wrong). For the former you need another 1560 damage and for the latter 1650, only 90 points of damage difference there, with 50% increased crit chance on Hammer of Wrath, chances are it'll kill the mob either way, so I consider it only as a 100 (rounded) damage difference.
Another thing to remember is that I chose the most "friendly" fight for Vindication and I assumed optimal conditions which I'm yet to test. Obviously if I critted my first attack the mob would go down to 2400/3000 and then Vindication would take it to 2400/2400, I earned nothing and postponed the point in which I can use Hammer of Wrath. Bad in my opinion. I also don't know what happens if Seal of Command proc on my hit (is the damage considered before Vindication or after?) same goes for opening with Crusader's Strike (do you get both attacks first? With or without their procs of Seal of Command?).

OK, that was a long word. :)

Thanks for reading so far,
Yuval.

Edit 1&2: Linking problems which messed with the build, changed it abit and therefore some content of the message as well, hope that didn't confuse anyone.
Edited, Oct 25th 2008 2:58am by YuvalR

Edited, Oct 25th 2008 3:08am by YuvalR