Band Of The Swift Paw Old
317 Armor
31Stam
22Agi
21Str
10Int
Yellow Socket (2Str)
Was 4th Best on Emmerald's List
Band Of The Swift Paw New
177 Armor
31Stam
22Agi
26Str
10Int
Yellow Socket (2Str)
Yet, Vindicator's kept same stats (no alterations to armor), making what used to be 5th and 6th best easily better than what was 4th best. Why didn't they increase the Band's Agility (defensive aspect) as opposed to Strength like they did for...
Nordrassil Handgrips Old
514 Armor
40 Stam
27 Agi
35 Str
18 Int
Nordrassil Handgrips New
262 Armor
40 Stam
36 Agi
35 Str
18 Int
Yet, Brutal didn't lose any stats and now is imo a lot better than just ~20 points better than Nordrassil for PVE. The Armor stayed at 368 (550 more than Nordrassil in bear), the +13hit rating, and the Maim effect, 8 more stam, 7 more Int and otherwise same Str & Agi as the new Nordrassil Handgrips.
More amazing to me, is how a Blue Trinket has more armor than my T5 Hands now.
Scoping things out to see what their overall procedures were with these gear changes I noticed cleft; Why didn't they change Clefthoof chest from 25 defense to something else? They made it a point to allow crit immunity without gear and then turn around and strip the armor off cleft and then do nothing with the now mostly worthless defense rating?
I realize some things could have been overlooked, and then too things will be moving into a whole new direction with the intro of the expansion, at which time most of this stuff won't even matter anymore, but I get this overall feeling like PvP gear is now a lot better for PvE than it used to be relative to PvE options. Footwear rings a bell.
Some how, the changes in gear, and how varying pieces of gear compare to each other, doesn't sit well with me compared to how they were relative to one another prior to this update.
Someone could probably quote me something from the patch notes, or argue about moving toward Agility, or the changes to the talent tree, but it won't change the opinion I hold about gear relativity prior to this update and now.
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What I don't like about this update (Feral Perspective)Follow
Torzak of Carbuncle(Moved To Asura)
yeah i see what your saying. lowering the armor that much seems like we are gonna be kinda spikey damage even with the 12% damage reduction if we are full group from tallent. i havent been able to get on my server but i'm dreading to see what happened to my tanking gear since i am only t4/badge minus ssc trash staff.
I lost armor on my belt, bracers, boots, and pants. Things I farmed or used my badges on will now be sold to a vendor. How sad.
Quote:
lowering the armor that much seems like we are gonna be kinda spikey damage even with the 12% damage reduction if we are full group from tallent
Honestly, I'm not worried about any of that. I have no doubts even without having tanked a thing since this update (freakin' addons) that druid won't have any problems tanking things with the lower armor rating assuming you're specced/geared appropriately. I could probably tank most heroics in full DPS gear right now with the way it's setup, but I may be overestimating to say that. The overall idea of these changes was specifically to close the gap in gear required between dps druid and tank druid. Or, in other words, make it more possible to use the same gear set in both cat and bear.
I just don't like how what used to be #4(PvE), #5(PvP), and #6(PvP) flip flopped such that #5 and #6 are now #4(PvP) and #5(PvP) and what used to be #4 is now #6(PvE) as only one example looking at wrist options. I just keep thinking to myself how PvE gear should be better for PvE play compared to PvP gear (unless severely out item leveled [Ex. Brutal Vs T4]). And before this update, the PvE piece was better for PvE play according to emmerald's list and I think it could be debated which was actually better because they were so similar really, but no longer, and by a hefty margin I think.
Hands used to hold the higher relative armor rating compared to trinkets and yet that has reversed when you look at a Lv70 blue druids have worn as an option for all too long. Somewhere along the way it just doesn't make sense for a trinket to have more armor than hand armor, regardless of how bear druids will favor agility over armor now. It just doesn't make sense gear slot compared to gear slot. If they changed the armor rating on the trinket in this update and accommodated this change with everything else, it probably wouldn't pop out at me as much as a glaring wtf.
Cleft looks like a joke laughed at and thrown to the curb side. I don't even see the point of it anymore, at all. The chest/legs were pretty much the most viable option
Edited, Oct 15th 2008 3:45am by Torzak
Torzak of Carbuncle(Moved To Asura)
Quote:
I lost armor on my belt, bracers, boots, and pants
Do you mind to post what gear options would be trashed and in favor of what?
Torzak of Carbuncle(Moved To Asura)
I have noticed the massive loss of armor and clefthoof having defense.
I think I am going to try and shave 2 off of SotF. I think it might be worth it as will have 2 extra points to throw around. Do something like this .
Especially since they haven't done the PI nerf yet so it is very OP so I want it and I can get 2 points in IW now that would have gone in SotF.
If they nerf PI soon then I will definitaly go 3/3 SotF until until then I am gonna only 1/3 for the extra points.
The worst part is that Outfitter doesn't work so it will be a PITA to gear for it. It is easily the best druid add-on ever. I don't know how I lived without it.
I need Outfitter to druid. Is that bad?
I think I am going to try and shave 2 off of SotF. I think it might be worth it as will have 2 extra points to throw around. Do something like this .
Especially since they haven't done the PI nerf yet so it is very OP so I want it and I can get 2 points in IW now that would have gone in SotF.
If they nerf PI soon then I will definitaly go 3/3 SotF until until then I am gonna only 1/3 for the extra points.
The worst part is that Outfitter doesn't work so it will be a PITA to gear for it. It is easily the best druid add-on ever. I don't know how I lived without it.
I need Outfitter to druid. Is that bad?
Hellbanned
idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
punkspider, ****** Superhero wrote:
lowering the armor that much seems like we are gonna be kinda spikey damage even with the 12% damage reduction if we are full group from tallent.
More or less armor doesn't make damage any more or less spiky, armor is a flat melee dmg reduction, you will be taking more damage from normal hits but with the removal of crushing blows it should all come out in the wash, in fact you will likely be ahead of where you were, on boss fights at least.
dcushley wrote:
punkspider, ****** Superhero wrote:
lowering the armor that much seems like we are gonna be kinda spikey damage even with the 12% damage reduction if we are full group from tallent.
More or less armor doesn't make damage any more or less spiky, armor is a flat melee dmg reduction, you will be taking more damage from normal hits but with the removal of crushing blows it should all come out in the wash, in fact you will likely be ahead of where you were, on boss fights at least.
This. Not sure why they left the armor on the PvP gear, though. If it's a mistake and gets patched in, great. If not, I see us tanking in a lot of PvP gear in WotLK.
so they took crushing blows out of kara then?? i didnt read that all i knew was the expansion wasn't gonna have crushing blows on raid bosses unless you was like 4+ lvls lower than the boss. if what i heard was right. i've been trying to read as much as i could on druid that i may ahve missed the part where it said crushing blows was removed with this patch.
Horsemouth wrote:
The worst part is that Outfitter doesn't work so it will be a PITA to gear for it. It is easily the best druid add-on ever. I don't know how I lived without it.
Actually there is a new version of Outfitter (a beta ver) out there. Work fine with the patch. Like you I think its a must have for a druid.
The worst part is that Outfitter doesn't work so it will be a PITA to gear for it. It is easily the best druid add-on ever. I don't know how I lived without it.
Actually there is a new version of Outfitter (a beta ver) out there. Work fine with the patch. Like you I think its a must have for a druid.
Quote:
The worst part is that Outfitter doesn't work so it will be a PITA to gear for it. It is easily the best druid add-on ever. I don't know how I lived without it.
There are actually a few add-on's like Outfitter.
Personally I like ItemRackv2, it's been updated for 3.0 and WotLK (Link) (You may ned to register for WoWInterface, it's been having cache issues.)
There is also one called Closet Gnome but I'm unsure of it's stage of development for WotLK.
Edited, Oct 15th 2008 12:41pm by GryphonStalker
punkspider wrote:
so they took crushing blows out of kara then??
I'm pretty sure they did. Don't worry -- if they didn't then Warrior tanks are screwed too (Shield Block changes).
I'm having similar concerns, but I'm hoping all the other mechanics changes will nullify my concerns.
My druid is on the newer end of 70 as it's my 3rd 70. So, gear level wasn't great, but it was decent, with about 17k health and 22.5k armor. With the patch, I lost about 5500 armor. This is a 24.4% drop, so the 12% damage reduction from group still leaves a big gap. I understand the other changes are supposed to make this a wash, but it does concern me at this point...until I have a chance to tank something and see how it works out.
Oh well, time to re-examine Emmerald's lists and see how I can improve in the short run.
My druid is on the newer end of 70 as it's my 3rd 70. So, gear level wasn't great, but it was decent, with about 17k health and 22.5k armor. With the patch, I lost about 5500 armor. This is a 24.4% drop, so the 12% damage reduction from group still leaves a big gap. I understand the other changes are supposed to make this a wash, but it does concern me at this point...until I have a chance to tank something and see how it works out.
Oh well, time to re-examine Emmerald's lists and see how I can improve in the short run.
The only thing I am not sure about is where to put my talents.
For now I have passed up Beserk and went for OOC. I've never been good at choosing talents because figuring out what works best with what confuses me big time.
I know it will take time to see which is the better route to go but I am wondering if anyone else has skipped Beserk for OOM and do you think that is the bets way to go?
At the time I was thinking if I can't get OOM I would just put the talents in Feral to maybe get more tank talents in my DPS build. Now that I have had time to think about is I could still get Furor and the damage increase (forgot the name of the talent atm) and still have Beserk.
Any input would be appreciated.
I wish I would have put in some time to figure this out before but instead I have been trying to level my priest like crazy.
For now I have passed up Beserk and went for OOC. I've never been good at choosing talents because figuring out what works best with what confuses me big time.
I know it will take time to see which is the better route to go but I am wondering if anyone else has skipped Beserk for OOM and do you think that is the bets way to go?
At the time I was thinking if I can't get OOM I would just put the talents in Feral to maybe get more tank talents in my DPS build. Now that I have had time to think about is I could still get Furor and the damage increase (forgot the name of the talent atm) and still have Beserk.
Any input would be appreciated.
I wish I would have put in some time to figure this out before but instead I have been trying to level my priest like crazy.
I did this . For now. Didn't get a chance to play much last night. Add on issues prevented some play time. Was also writing macros for a while.
Wanted to test Berserk, seems cool for bear form. I really want to play with my new abilities. Have to find the working Outfitter, so if anyone has a link that would be excellent.
Wanted to test Berserk, seems cool for bear form. I really want to play with my new abilities. Have to find the working Outfitter, so if anyone has a link that would be excellent.
Hellbanned
idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
Horsemouth wrote:
I did this . For now. Didn't get a chance to play much last night. Add on issues prevented some play time. Was also writing macros for a while.
Wanted to test Berserk, seems cool for bear form. I really want to play with my new abilities. Have to find the working Outfitter, so if anyone has a link that would be excellent.
Wanted to test Berserk, seems cool for bear form. I really want to play with my new abilities. Have to find the working Outfitter, so if anyone has a link that would be excellent.
http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addons/details/outfitter.aspx
there is a beta version for the new patch. haven't tried it yet so I'm not sure how it is working.
I think that is the one I have. At work but remember noticing the 3 months since last update. Maybe I am doing something else wrong. Will be the first thing I check out WoW-wise when I get home.
Thanks.
edit: I am not the only one with Outfitter issues it seems.
I wiped both my Addons and WTF folders after the patch so that can't be it.
Edited, Oct 15th 2008 4:06pm by Horsemouth
Thanks.
edit: I am not the only one with Outfitter issues it seems.
Mundocani (the developer) wrote:
Hm, I'm not sure what's going on then. Could you try deleting the old Outfitter folder from your Addons before copying the new one? I don't know that it'll help, but I'm not sure what's causing Outfitter to fail so horribly for some people.
I wiped both my Addons and WTF folders after the patch so that can't be it.
Edited, Oct 15th 2008 4:06pm by Horsemouth
Hellbanned
idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
Cunk wrote:
The only thing I am not sure about is where to put my talents.
For now I have passed up Beserk and went for OOC. I've never been good at choosing talents because figuring out what works best with what confuses me big time.
I know it will take time to see which is the better route to go but I am wondering if anyone else has skipped Beserk for OOM and do you think that is the bets way to go?
At the time I was thinking if I can't get OOM I would just put the talents in Feral to maybe get more tank talents in my DPS build. Now that I have had time to think about is I could still get Furor and the damage increase (forgot the name of the talent atm) and still have Beserk.
Any input would be appreciated.
For now I have passed up Beserk and went for OOC. I've never been good at choosing talents because figuring out what works best with what confuses me big time.
I know it will take time to see which is the better route to go but I am wondering if anyone else has skipped Beserk for OOM and do you think that is the bets way to go?
At the time I was thinking if I can't get OOM I would just put the talents in Feral to maybe get more tank talents in my DPS build. Now that I have had time to think about is I could still get Furor and the damage increase (forgot the name of the talent atm) and still have Beserk.
Any input would be appreciated.
I did the same thing (OoC instead of Berserk) and regretted it within minutes. We passed up on an awesome new ability that breaks fear and unleashes mad damage in favor of one that invisibly grants a free attack every once in a while. Between a full energy every time I pop into cat form (new furor FTW), the continuous energy build instead of ticks, and reduced energy cost of Mangle, I found myself unleashing special attacks pretty much as the GCD expired every time, so I'm willing to sacrifice OoC for the fun new toy of Berserk for now. Especially because most of my time is spent in BGs or grinding out my ten losses/week in arena -- can't pass up a fear break in PvP.
So while I found a few other things I will change in my spec, I'm basically gonna spend the 20g to respec so I can swap OoC for Berserk.
Granted, from the looks of it, I'm not as far along into my Druid, but then again I've only been playing since August.
I was (key word) a Feral Druid, and now I think I'm about to spec "Retired" for my Druid. The reason why is that for a guy like me, who was just building honor to try and start getting gear, I just got slapped with a huge nerf. I don't like healing, Balance was ok, but I loved Feral because I loved to tank. I liked the fact that even with my gimpy gear, I could go into a BG, and not be dead in less than a second if two people attacked me. Tonight, I logged in and decided to do EoS, and felt more useless than ever because I can't even function as a distraction anymore!
To give you guys an idea.
Bear Form HP (old): 17k
Bear Form HP (new): 14k
Bear Form Armor (old): 16.5k
Bear Form Armor (new): 11k
I mean, I understand I don't have the experience or time playing under my belt as you guys do, but being a noob in WoW, this hurt. Some DPS got damage upgrades (I heard Rogues in my guild bragging about their numbers), and with my nerfed armor, I just feel terrible. I never thought I'd get as frustrated with Blizzard as I had been with Square Enix, but I guess I was wrong. Blizzard just made something that I knew was going to be a tough climb even tougher.
I was (key word) a Feral Druid, and now I think I'm about to spec "Retired" for my Druid. The reason why is that for a guy like me, who was just building honor to try and start getting gear, I just got slapped with a huge nerf. I don't like healing, Balance was ok, but I loved Feral because I loved to tank. I liked the fact that even with my gimpy gear, I could go into a BG, and not be dead in less than a second if two people attacked me. Tonight, I logged in and decided to do EoS, and felt more useless than ever because I can't even function as a distraction anymore!
To give you guys an idea.
Bear Form HP (old): 17k
Bear Form HP (new): 14k
Bear Form Armor (old): 16.5k
Bear Form Armor (new): 11k
I mean, I understand I don't have the experience or time playing under my belt as you guys do, but being a noob in WoW, this hurt. Some DPS got damage upgrades (I heard Rogues in my guild bragging about their numbers), and with my nerfed armor, I just feel terrible. I never thought I'd get as frustrated with Blizzard as I had been with Square Enix, but I guess I was wrong. Blizzard just made something that I knew was going to be a tough climb even tougher.
The only reason your bear form health should have dropped would be if you didn't get Heart of the Wild and Survival of the Fittest again. The loss of armor sucks, but PvP gear actually still has increased armor (I believe). Right now, some classes are OP, some are weak. Blizz is still balancing things in Beta, and they're doing it based on level 80 PvP.
Honestly, with all the new feral talents, there's no reason to not like PvP right now. We have interrupts in Cat and Bear from melee and from range. We shift out of snares, we have a fear break, we have a snare and 2 charges to close distance with. Nature's grasp is baseline now. If things don't change a lot from now to beta, I might start PvPing again in LK.
Honestly, with all the new feral talents, there's no reason to not like PvP right now. We have interrupts in Cat and Bear from melee and from range. We shift out of snares, we have a fear break, we have a snare and 2 charges to close distance with. Nature's grasp is baseline now. If things don't change a lot from now to beta, I might start PvPing again in LK.
Yeah, with the same talents and gear, your health should not have dropped at all. The armor yes, but health no.
Try playing more in kitty - We have kitty charge which dazes our target as well as NOT BREAKING OUR STEALTH so you can still go straight in with your pounce opener! This + beserk + tigers fury make kitty form a lot more fun in BG's. We actually have some excellent burst damage now. Sure, rogues & warriors are actually a challenge now (but don't forget barkskin & natures grasp) but overall, a definite buff in PvP.
Try playing more in kitty - We have kitty charge which dazes our target as well as NOT BREAKING OUR STEALTH so you can still go straight in with your pounce opener! This + beserk + tigers fury make kitty form a lot more fun in BG's. We actually have some excellent burst damage now. Sure, rogues & warriors are actually a challenge now (but don't forget barkskin & natures grasp) but overall, a definite buff in PvP.
To anyone who got OOC over berserk...don't. It just rocks. I was putting out 3k threat per second (by my threat meter) when I popped that and enrage, and spammed mangle and maul. And the mangles were also hitting two other people. Mangle and Maul hit much harder now, btw, I would estimate about 40% harder (and then you add the mangle debuff to maul!). I was getting 2.2k maul crits with mangle debuff up. No raid buffs but GotW and Battle shout. All in all, I was happy with tanking, despite the armor nerfs. Threat generation is through the roof.
For tanking, Beserk is much better than OOC.
For DPS, OOC is much better than Beserk.
At the end of the day, pick which ever one you want to try out and suits your playstyle - there is no wrong answer.
Edited, Oct 16th 2008 11:27pm by RareBeast
For DPS, OOC is much better than Beserk.
At the end of the day, pick which ever one you want to try out and suits your playstyle - there is no wrong answer.
Edited, Oct 16th 2008 11:27pm by RareBeast
I really miss all the armor I used to have. I went from 32k to 21k, but I think it will be ok once 80 comes around. Everyone seems to forget that everything will be more equal after the xpac and everyone levels. It is weird seeing a prot warrior do 600 dps though.
I miss looking at the high number too, but I'm enjoying the changes, outside of my gear relativity issue of course.
I was able to fix my UI a little bit. It's no where near what I wish it was and with ace's website down it's just tough luck for the immediate future for some of the stuff I suppose.
A really fast Tip for macros though, they changed Mangle cat and bear such that you need a tac<sp> between Mangle and type/rank in macros. Example: /cast Mangle - Cat(Rank 3)
I was thinking macros took a serious turn for the worse after noting my powershift macros being useless, but turns out it wasn't as bad as I had it in my head, just took a lot of time and scratching my head before I realized the change in the spell/ability book.
Anywho, I'm enjoying the changes, so much so, that a Heroic UB run I did earlier today, with zero glyphs and before realizing the mangle macro change, was fast as greased lightning. It was just constant one set of opponents and moving to the next set without even fully finishing the first set. My Mangle/Maul hybrid macro was out of commission so I didn't even use Mangle the entire instance except 3 times on the last boss and those were because I was using it straight from the book. We were moving so fast though, I didn't want to waste the time trying to figure out what was wrong with Mangle in my macro, so I just kept spamming the same macro but only got Maul out of it.
After that instance I did take the time to figure out what was wrong and got my macro back into action. It took me a while as I said above though. To the point that I actually went with two separate action buttons for Maul and Mangle for a short while earlier.
But by the time I figured that out, got myself the maul glyph amongst others and took on a shout for a kara pick-up run...
A few folks I just ran kara with seemed quite interested in the glyphs I chose (not like there's really a lot to choose from, but I guess the whole outside class looking in /shrug) and just overall trying to figure out I guess what was going on... because I just averaged 750DPS for the entire instance as 100% Tank/Bear without exchanging any pieces of gear for DPS items, which I could have easily done. The Shade fight is the only fight I did change gear and played cat. Before this update though 410/420 would be expected while tanking just about anywhere with my highest dps numbers for a heroic topping out at usually 435 in a 100% tank roll/100% tank gear.
I've noticed no real downsides to the decreased armor, but I'm thoroughly enjoying the faster paced fights.
Edited, Oct 17th 2008 3:32pm by Torzak
I was able to fix my UI a little bit. It's no where near what I wish it was and with ace's website down it's just tough luck for the immediate future for some of the stuff I suppose.
A really fast Tip for macros though, they changed Mangle cat and bear such that you need a tac<sp> between Mangle and type/rank in macros. Example: /cast Mangle - Cat(Rank 3)
I was thinking macros took a serious turn for the worse after noting my powershift macros being useless, but turns out it wasn't as bad as I had it in my head, just took a lot of time and scratching my head before I realized the change in the spell/ability book.
Anywho, I'm enjoying the changes, so much so, that a Heroic UB run I did earlier today, with zero glyphs and before realizing the mangle macro change, was fast as greased lightning. It was just constant one set of opponents and moving to the next set without even fully finishing the first set. My Mangle/Maul hybrid macro was out of commission so I didn't even use Mangle the entire instance except 3 times on the last boss and those were because I was using it straight from the book. We were moving so fast though, I didn't want to waste the time trying to figure out what was wrong with Mangle in my macro, so I just kept spamming the same macro but only got Maul out of it.
After that instance I did take the time to figure out what was wrong and got my macro back into action. It took me a while as I said above though. To the point that I actually went with two separate action buttons for Maul and Mangle for a short while earlier.
But by the time I figured that out, got myself the maul glyph amongst others and took on a shout for a kara pick-up run...
A few folks I just ran kara with seemed quite interested in the glyphs I chose (not like there's really a lot to choose from, but I guess the whole outside class looking in /shrug) and just overall trying to figure out I guess what was going on... because I just averaged 750DPS for the entire instance as 100% Tank/Bear without exchanging any pieces of gear for DPS items, which I could have easily done. The Shade fight is the only fight I did change gear and played cat. Before this update though 410/420 would be expected while tanking just about anywhere with my highest dps numbers for a heroic topping out at usually 435 in a 100% tank roll/100% tank gear.
I've noticed no real downsides to the decreased armor, but I'm thoroughly enjoying the faster paced fights.
Edited, Oct 17th 2008 3:32pm by Torzak
Torzak of Carbuncle(Moved To Asura)
AstarintheDruid wrote:
The only reason your bear form health should have dropped would be if you didn't get Heart of the Wild and Survival of the Fittest again.
Not to pick on you, as looking at everything if anything health should rise (3->6% on SotF yields a little more stamina, some of the armor loss seems to have been replaced by stam on our old gear), however there is one thing you are leaving out.
If I remember correctly the Tauren health bonus Toughness was set to no longer scale along with gear or buffs, but be a flat amount based upon having ~ green quality equipment. I could be wrong and that nerf isn't till WotlK is released, but I do remember reading it.
Our guild's MT for ZA last night did have less health than he usually did, so I'm thinking this might be a Night Elf <--> Tauren issue. One of the things miffing me most right now is:
Night Elf- Shadowmeld buffed, dodge % buffed, 10 nature resist-->3% resist
Tauren- Toughness nerfed, nature resist 10-->2% resist.
Besides that, yea the PVP gear being better bit is mildly annoying (especially if you skipped out purchasing it because you got T4 drops/etc), but beyond those two little pet peeves I'm loving the patch.
30% less AOE damage on catform (well, +30% less boss damage) = tons more surviability for AOE heavy fights. Increased OOC procs, the new tiger's fury, Glyph of Rip mean you can actually do a 2-finisher rotation sometimes. Ferocious bite's energy consumption scaling with AP is massive win.
Oh, and we can actually farm Zul'jin and Hex with no wipes now. /cheer
Edit: I fail at spelling.
Edited, Oct 17th 2008 12:51pm by Riftaru
Edited, Oct 17th 2008 12:51pm by Riftaru
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