So Apparently Nobody Likes Us Anymore. :(Follow

Here's a thread where a BETA forum administrator gives some insight about the new changes and what may come.
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=11228403882&sid=2000

I've not been able to test the new changes right away but here's my take: Whether or not the new changes are OP is debatable but c'mon RET paladins have been looked down upon for months now. It's their turn to own in PvP. Let them have a little bit of fun before any changes.

Last night my Paladin died because he pulled three buzzards in a row, being out of mana and health on the third.

Even if this is going to get nerfed, or scales poorly, it's worth everything. The fact that I can go out and kill stuff without having to sit and drink after each fight... it's amazing. I was killing off a group of mobs when a Rogue popped out of the shadows to gank me. I killed him before I could shuffle through my spellbook for Divine Shield. And for a pretty long while I was trying to cast Righteous Defense on him instead of Divine Storm.

The Judgement system has got to be the best change to the Paladin class ever! With Judgement of the Wise (talent) and Fanaticism, it's just sexified awesomeness.

Edit: I went out to test my newfound powers on some mobs. I've gained half a level by just grinding mobs.

Edited, Oct 16th 2008 1:20am by Mazra

let me give some anecdotes:
1. solo'd ramps in 20 mins(no drinking)
2. solo'd a Fel Reaver w/o using LoH
3. got my Wrecking Ball achievement(34KBs in that WSG, 0 Deaths)
4. got my Damage Control achievement in an 8min AV
5. almost 1500dps on training dummy w/ only BoM(i've never broken 1k raid buffed)

the main problem i see atm is people trying to take on pallies toe-to-toe. everyone thinks their own spec just got super buffed so that queue up BG to melt some faces and forget how to play their own class(does anyone even take defensive talents anymore?)

the secondary problem is there is no way to counter a pally coming at you. everything is instant, hard hitting, and comes in combos. you silence one thing, he hits with melee. you disarm, he stuns you. im kickin out some retarded dmg in BGs atm and i havent even figured out a normal rotation yet(those insta-heals always seem queued up tho).

i imagine when lvl 80 hits and HP and Resil are topped off, the longer fights will test the pally's abilities. until then i will 3 shot everything.

next stop Ony by phase 1. brb.
Edit: got her to 89%. i need a healer.

Edited, Oct 15th 2008 11:49pm by tommyguns

I love the pallie just the way they are right now, I feel like I`m ontop of the world, I did shadow labs last night with my undergeared druid healer, I played tank and DPS, that was a blast. As everyone says, if one class once another dead, it will happen, once people learn what makes a ret pally tick, they will fall more often, its only cause ret pallies got the biggest change that it will take the longest to learn the ins an outs. Most people that I beat in duels seem to understand that ret pallies may get a small nerf, but may not, they also understand that its got more to do with gear and resilience and skill than anything else. Askilled warrior can kick a ret pallies ***** Pretty unlikely, but can happen, I still see about half of the classes kicking my ***** most being, locks, hunters, mages, and some rogues, However I watched an under geared rogue kill himself from 100% to 1% in a duel on my aura. lol. that was fun.

So, what, none of them healed each other, CCed you, dispelled your stun/repentance, or ran out of sight?

If just one of them was a priest, paladin, rogue, or druid, and had any idea what they were doing, you could not have killed any of them.

Others have covered it but here it is again.

We are beta testing Wotlk mechanics right now. As another said it is imbalanced as all hell due to the fact that we aren't level 80. As another said when 2.0 was released pre-bc we saw the exact same thing, example Felguards on Mages. This is pretty straight forward stuff. We are already seeing where blizzard is responding to the beta testing, the changes to Art of War in upcoming patch for example. If you think we will handle the same at 80 as we do at 70 then your ability to think rationally and come to logical conclusions can be assumed to be nil.

The sky is not falling, things are going to change drastically even before Wotlk arrives (patch 3.0.2)

Same time I saw a paladin MT Illidan and Funwell content this week. As a Holy Paladin I am not so much estatic that my healing is through the roof (cause once again how it plays out at lvl 80 is questionable since I havent touched beta) but because I have Holy Shock, LoH, a divine favor in conjunction with Holy Shock, Beacon of Light as well as Hand of Salv and Sacrifice to play with which is a nice change from what I had before which was starting to get stale as hell.

Ok, I've not been posting for the last few weeks cause I got a new phone and it absolutely sucks to read alla forums and is even worse for posting (at the moment I'm typing blind because it won't even let me see what I'm typing). However, I missed the forums and decided to struggle through reading them and see you slandering me? I have never argued for taking the faster hammer. I may have mentioned that some might want it for pvp where I think it could have use, but I'm no pvper so I don't argue for stuff like this. Don't go acting like just cause I'm not posting much you can throw my name out there attached to an arguement that is clearly flawed and make yourself look better...

I'll read this later and likely edit for spelling when I get home to my computer... Lol

Edit: Spelling... wow it was bad lol.

and to add my 2 cents to the fun little debate going here, I think Gaud's point is that ret is both survivable and too bursty. is that correct? I think you are overstating our survivability Gaud. I don't think you're necessarily wrong in your overall point, but I don't see any situation where a Ret pally will be attacked long enough without there being enough enemies to overpower and kill him that he can use Divine Shield, Lay on Hands, and Hand of Protection (not sure what this BoP you keep mentioning is ;) ). However, even with only one of them combined w/ instant cast FoL and the little bit of healing from Divine Storm and clever use of JoL I can see that a Ret pally might be very survivable. I don't think Ret is alone in this. Ret's burst is awesome. I love it as a Ret pally. but the main reason I never pvp'd before really is because i hate dying w/o a chance. So if Ret burst is doing this to other people now then yes, I totally understand how it would be annoying at the very least. Again, Ret's killing ability is not completely unique to Ret. However, it may be that the survivability combined w/ our degree of killing ability may be unique.

Blizz has made and is in the process of making some changes to reduce our pvp burst slightly and still keep our overall pve dps about the same. they've said for a while they don't think Ret does too much damage, just that it's too bursty. I think from reading the patch notes that "knee-jerk" though they may be, they are pretty well done changes and depending on the actual %'s of some of the changed talents it may actually work very well. I personally don't want to see JotW nerfed. You've mentioned that as a source of our being OP. There are other classes that never have mana problems. Shaman's, hunters and Locks never seem to have mana problems, even in the past. They were given great answers to their need for mana. Fury warriors right now got dps buffs recently (the hit penalty was reduced to 5% from 12%) not because of their dps being low, but because they COULDN'T USE ALL THE RAGE THEY WERE GETTING.... Rogues may run out of energy, but in my opnion having to wait a second to get enough energy for your next ability is nowhere near as bad as needing to wait till combat is over to drink to get your mana back. That's where ret was before JotW. So, jerfing JotW would not only kill Ret it would be unfairly targeting one particular spec when many other dpsers have the same nearly unlimited amounts of resources.

You also mentioned the extra instant cast heal from AoW as OP. eh, for PVP it might be. i don't know. making that not proc in arena's may not be a bad idea. however, i love it in pve. It does add to either our utility or our survivability depending on how we use it. Is it OP? no, it activates the GCD so even if it is used it will be a self imposed dps decrease. i still use if of course because if i can take weight off the healers at the expense of a few dps i think that's worth it.

I honestly think that blizz is taking a rather odd approach to fixing the problems w/ ret (way too many abilities involved) but in the end it seems they're doing a pretty good job. lets give them a little time and see where this goes. just keep in mind that while i'm doing 1500-1800 dps now as a lvl 70, my lvl 80 premade had 25k hp and only did 2400-2500 dps. double the health and not nearly double the dps means you won't be getting killed in the duration of a HoJ at 80. and i was doing 2500 before the recent balancing down. i actually haven't logged on in a few weeks now so i'd dare say my lvl 70 with close stats to the 80 premade pvp gear is close to the dps we'll see at least starting off at 80. i predict only being in the low 2k dps when i hit 80.

oh and before you say 1500-1800 dps is too good, i have gear nearly twice as good as some of the hunters in my guild and they are STILL within a few 100 dps of me in most situations. admittedly, there's no other class really doing that, but blizz has noticed that casters are falling behind so they're working on that too. that's why lvl 80 raid bosses armor will be 10% higher than they had planned.

tsarducci and Gaud, pls calm down. I realize that things aren't exactly perfectly balanced. however, keep in mind they are much closer to being balanced then they were before the patch as far as ret pally pve dps is concerned. It was sad that my gear should have put me starting or even working through T6 content, but my dps was being beat by even my own hunter with only a few epics from kara.... balance? not really. now my ret beats those hunters w/ t4/badge gear, but barely. it's much closer to what it should be w/ my toon being in about the best gear i can get pre-t6...

and yes, i won my first duel on my ret pally... as much as i hate pvp maybe that's a good sign we do a little too much pvp damage lol... w/ my gear being as good as it is i've still been beat by newly dinged 70's... i suck that bad at pvp ;)



Edited, Oct 23rd 2008 7:20pm by toolofjesus

Can. Not. Wait.


We need this to happen 2 patches ago /cry

I've been spec swapping too. Ret is so much fun at the moment, I've actually been enjoying BGs on my Paly (need marks to get more mounts ...). But, I am and always will be a tank first, so when duty calls, I go back to Prot. Also the speed of doing dailies now, even if I did them as Prot, is unbelievable.

Duel-spec system will be fantastic. Certainly gonna be a Prot/Ret spec for me. Can't wait.