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So Apparently Nobody Likes Us Anymore. :(Follow
I haven't been able to successfully log on and stay on for more than 5 mins, but from what I've read, ret pallies are actually really good now and therefor we are the hated flavor of this patch. You guy think we are gonna get the crap beat out of us with the nerf bat? Personally I think it's about time that ret is a feared spec, granted I'm generally a prot man myself....it's nice to know that I can open up a can o whoopass if needbe, at least time patch 3.1 or whatever. :\
at level 70 its rediculous. enemies dont even have a chance to react before being shredded by a pally. the new judgement system makes killing a breeze. i did so many pvp achievements tonight. being nerfed tomorrow im sure.
You gotta explain this to me. The talent trees and loss of Sanc. Aura led me to believe that ret would be less bursty. Where is all the damage coming from? Did they just completely re-do the coefficients on Judgements?
I'm in Europe, so i don't get my hands on the patch for another 10 hours :P
I'm in Europe, so i don't get my hands on the patch for another 10 hours :P
I just did a few BGs and I'm prot, but what I was seeing is cs->repent->judge command + divine storm->hammer of justice, and by the time the persons out of hammer they're dead or damn close. It really takes no skill and it looks like it does more damage then a rogue stunlock combo, but whatever. I'm just doing PVE on my paladin for the most part, but I have to do a few more BGs to get a new tanking weapon.
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You gotta explain this to me. The talent trees and loss of Sanc. Aura led me to believe that ret would be less bursty. Where is all the damage coming from? Did they just completely re-do the coefficients on Judgements?
I'm in Europe, so i don't get my hands on the patch for another 10 hours :P
I'm in Europe, so i don't get my hands on the patch for another 10 hours :P
if i remember right they laoded up more on crit **** and they changed how some abilities work.
It's pretty typical. Ret finally gets a shot at the spotlight and every other class starts to shoot it down.
Honestly, it's first impressions, everyone not used to the way things work will complain about the people who adapted faster. Ret's awesome now. Why is that a bad thing? It's not like everyone is going to roll a ret pally.
I'm certain there's still tuning to be done, but to the masses of rogues and warlocks out there complaining that they got beat by a ret pally...congratulations! You will actually have to try to beat a retadin now, instead of shrugging off the first few seconds of burst and then splattering him.
Honestly, it's first impressions, everyone not used to the way things work will complain about the people who adapted faster. Ret's awesome now. Why is that a bad thing? It's not like everyone is going to roll a ret pally.
I'm certain there's still tuning to be done, but to the masses of rogues and warlocks out there complaining that they got beat by a ret pally...congratulations! You will actually have to try to beat a retadin now, instead of shrugging off the first few seconds of burst and then splattering him.
It is pretty typical, exactly the same as the Felguard whining in 2.0. Demo locks caught a break, the whinebulance started it's engine.
Now I will say that Ret is so much stronger now it is giving some people a nasty shock, particularly as Ret players have been playing with leg-weights so long they are actually pretty mean, skilled players by and large. All the noobs play Rogues for cheap kills, so coming across another class with a good shot at killing you is a nasty shock for them. That said, Rogues can STILL stunlock my Paladin to death, Druids can STILL outheal my damage and hide in Bearform, and Warriors can STILL cause me serious problems with their burst and MS.
With the nerf to JotW, I dont see any reason Retadins won't stay as they are. Their mana regen and self-healing is now more or less proportional to Feral Druids, which is where it should be.
I forsee a possible increase in mana cost of Divine Storm perhaps, or a reduction in Sheath of Light perhaps, but in general I expect few changes.
I do however expect Retadins to scale poorly up to 80, and by lvl80 endgame will be back in the same position they were at lvl70 TBC. The change to Seal of Command alone (no longer scales with weapon damage) ensures that Ret burst will begin to suck greater and greater quantities of balls as Arena seasons progress.
Fleas with the dog.
Now I will say that Ret is so much stronger now it is giving some people a nasty shock, particularly as Ret players have been playing with leg-weights so long they are actually pretty mean, skilled players by and large. All the noobs play Rogues for cheap kills, so coming across another class with a good shot at killing you is a nasty shock for them. That said, Rogues can STILL stunlock my Paladin to death, Druids can STILL outheal my damage and hide in Bearform, and Warriors can STILL cause me serious problems with their burst and MS.
With the nerf to JotW, I dont see any reason Retadins won't stay as they are. Their mana regen and self-healing is now more or less proportional to Feral Druids, which is where it should be.
I forsee a possible increase in mana cost of Divine Storm perhaps, or a reduction in Sheath of Light perhaps, but in general I expect few changes.
I do however expect Retadins to scale poorly up to 80, and by lvl80 endgame will be back in the same position they were at lvl70 TBC. The change to Seal of Command alone (no longer scales with weapon damage) ensures that Ret burst will begin to suck greater and greater quantities of balls as Arena seasons progress.
Fleas with the dog.
I never liked you in the first place. >:)
Ret is significantly op atm. I have decent ret gear(some bt stuff, all the best badge gearz and s4 gloves) and did over 1600dps for the entire kara run tonight. Stats buffed were 2800ap, 37% crit, hitcapped, 15% passive haste + wind fury totem(2.56 mh swing timer with badge axe). Something like 3800dps on netherspite in the blue beam, it was completely ridiculous. Is it fun, hell yes, but i can't see it lasting long.
Scaling, my friend.
It really is the same as the Felguard; at lvl60, my lock's Felguard could literally solo equally-geared Mages. At lvl70, it wasnt worth speccing anymore.
Same for Ret, if you look at beta parses since the new build they're in balance with the other melee DPS classes.
It really is the same as the Felguard; at lvl60, my lock's Felguard could literally solo equally-geared Mages. At lvl70, it wasnt worth speccing anymore.
Same for Ret, if you look at beta parses since the new build they're in balance with the other melee DPS classes.
I am probably going to say this in ALL of my posts today....
The game is now designed to be balanced around level 80.
We still can't pass level 70.
Therefore, the game is currently imbalanced.
It is currently imbalanced in favor of Paladins.
This is great cause for celebration!
The Kara story is unsurprising given that the trash and bosses have 30% less hitpoints, 30% less mana, and do 30% less damage.
Enjoy the month of "total OP-ness" for Ret, it will be fun!
I tried a brand new level 1 Pally last night because my usual server was basically impossible to access until almost midnight local time for me. I got to level 10 without even sitting down to eat or drink a single time, and it took MAYBE 2 hours tops. It was nice! Health and Mana regen even at the lowest levels was simply insane! Have seal of Righteousness up, judge light, beat on mob(s), level. Could EASILY do 2-4 mobs of the same level as I was without even thinking much unless they were casters. That used to at least be a challenge at the lowest levels.
The game is now designed to be balanced around level 80.
We still can't pass level 70.
Therefore, the game is currently imbalanced.
It is currently imbalanced in favor of Paladins.
This is great cause for celebration!
The Kara story is unsurprising given that the trash and bosses have 30% less hitpoints, 30% less mana, and do 30% less damage.
Enjoy the month of "total OP-ness" for Ret, it will be fun!
I tried a brand new level 1 Pally last night because my usual server was basically impossible to access until almost midnight local time for me. I got to level 10 without even sitting down to eat or drink a single time, and it took MAYBE 2 hours tops. It was nice! Health and Mana regen even at the lowest levels was simply insane! Have seal of Righteousness up, judge light, beat on mob(s), level. Could EASILY do 2-4 mobs of the same level as I was without even thinking much unless they were casters. That used to at least be a challenge at the lowest levels.
]
Now I will say that Ret is so much stronger now it is giving some people a nasty shock, particularly as Ret players have been playing with leg-weights so long they are actually pretty mean, skilled players by and large.
Yup, This is whats going on. I'm in half merc gear, rest T4 and badge gear...so I could run heroics and be barely able to do BG's. Now suddenly I'm at T5 raiding output, which is WHERE I SHOULD HAVE BEEN. And since ret players have had to really push themselves to stay even close to on par with people geared way below them, so we're fast on initiating rotations, fast on restarting autoswing when your current target is dead, and fast on the interrupts and bubbles.
I'll also stand with the people who point out that we may seem unbalanced at 70 because the game is balanced for 80. All this qqing has been going on for months on the beta, so major changes would have been made by now.
EDIT: @jer: hah, yeah :) I started leveling a baby pally while waiting for Ysera to come back, and had the same experience. When I finally got on my ret main this morning I found I simply couldn't make big enough pulls in the netherwing zone to challenge me :) And I can finally drop those annoying elite flayers there! The ascendants still kick the crap out of me, tho.
Edited, Oct 15th 2008 8:48am by Tsarducci
Sinstralis wrote:
Now I will say that Ret is so much stronger now it is giving some people a nasty shock, particularly as Ret players have been playing with leg-weights so long they are actually pretty mean, skilled players by and large.
Yup, This is whats going on. I'm in half merc gear, rest T4 and badge gear...so I could run heroics and be barely able to do BG's. Now suddenly I'm at T5 raiding output, which is WHERE I SHOULD HAVE BEEN. And since ret players have had to really push themselves to stay even close to on par with people geared way below them, so we're fast on initiating rotations, fast on restarting autoswing when your current target is dead, and fast on the interrupts and bubbles.
I'll also stand with the people who point out that we may seem unbalanced at 70 because the game is balanced for 80. All this qqing has been going on for months on the beta, so major changes would have been made by now.
EDIT: @jer: hah, yeah :) I started leveling a baby pally while waiting for Ysera to come back, and had the same experience. When I finally got on my ret main this morning I found I simply couldn't make big enough pulls in the netherwing zone to challenge me :) And I can finally drop those annoying elite flayers there! The ascendants still kick the crap out of me, tho.
Edited, Oct 15th 2008 8:48am by Tsarducci
jeromesimina wrote:
I am probably going to say this in ALL of my posts today....
The game is now designed to be balanced around level 80.
We still can't pass level 70.
Therefore, the game is currently imbalanced.
It is currently imbalanced in favor of Paladins.
The game is now designed to be balanced around level 80.
We still can't pass level 70.
Therefore, the game is currently imbalanced.
It is currently imbalanced in favor of Paladins.
After doing some BG's last night, you really can't do anything but agree with the these statements(with the exception of the the latter, if you're not a paladin like myself). I'm not here to QQ or anything of that nature, but I'd just like an example to give the other side of the story.
Now granted, I respecced Mutilate with the ShS nerf so I was a little rusty, but let's be serious. I don't think I've ever seen that kind of burst from anyone, even a frost mage. I'm at full health(11k HP, about 375 resil) and a retadin runs up to me. This is what my combat log reads:
X's melee swing hits you for 2960(Critical).
X's Judgement of ?(Command I think) hits you for 2960(Critical)
X's (dont remember the name of the attack) hits you for 2950(Critical).
Your melee swing hits X for 65.
X's Hammer of Wrath hits you for 3k(Critical).
You die.
After engagement, this took all of about 2.5 seconds. Yikes.
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It's pretty typical. Ret finally gets a shot at the spotlight and every other class starts to shoot it down.
Honestly, it's first impressions, everyone not used to the way things work will complain about the people who adapted faster. Ret's awesome now. Why is that a bad thing? It's not like everyone is going to roll a ret pally.
I'm certain there's still tuning to be done, but to the masses of rogues and warlocks out there complaining that they got beat by a ret pally...congratulations! You will actually have to try to beat a retadin now, instead of shrugging off the first few seconds of burst and then splattering him.
Honestly, it's first impressions, everyone not used to the way things work will complain about the people who adapted faster. Ret's awesome now. Why is that a bad thing? It's not like everyone is going to roll a ret pally.
I'm certain there's still tuning to be done, but to the masses of rogues and warlocks out there complaining that they got beat by a ret pally...congratulations! You will actually have to try to beat a retadin now, instead of shrugging off the first few seconds of burst and then splattering him.
You can't tell me pally's are balanced at 70.
Even at lvl 80, the damage a ret paladin puts out is just insane.
They have 3 instant damage abilities, (CS, DS and judgement) and a 6 second stun on a 20 second cooldown.
Now, I understand paladins don't have a snare, don't have a healing debuff, and don't have a gap closer (they have a superior blind now, though.)
So in 1vs1, they'll utterly and completely decimate any melee class, and still get pwned by someone who knows how to kite.
In group pvp however, where one of your teammates can immobilize your target....Ouch.
However..i'm not here to make any judgements(see what I did there?) about paladins (yet)
We've all been given skills that are ment for lvl 80 pvp, so maybe everything will even out.
i mean..we all saw what happened to druids at the start of tbc, from what I understand they still haven't completely recovered from that nerf.
From what I hear from beta however, ret seems to burst almost as hard at 80 then at 70.
Maybe resilience will change it a bit, we'll just see.
I just hope that if they nerf ret paladins because of pvp, blizz manages to find something out so that paladins can still dps fine in PVE.
For the last goddamn time, Paladins do not have
In order to get that you need a stack of points in Prot, which removes all of that 'burst' you're talking about, as it all lives at deep Retribution AND you need the 4part PvP set bonus.
Every o-boarder is saying the same thing over and over and it isnt any truer on Alla than it is there; to get this mythical uber-stun you need 18 points in Prot which leaves only 43 for Ret, which therefore precludes all of the new talents which allow Ret to cause the damage and self-healing that people are whining about, including Divine Storm.
Ret Paladins are in fact NOT totally balanced at 70, I will acknowledge that, but then Rogues have never had a problem killing my Warlock and Shaman without taking any damage themselves either.
Looking at beta parses and lvl80 BGs, Retadins are fine up there, same as Felguard locks in 2.0. They cant nerf Paladins and then un-nerf them later, that'd just create whining from everyone. Paladins are overtuned at the moment at 70, but that won't last long, and it wont require some retributive nerf to accomplish.
Im sorry but that's totally wrong. Resto Druids are solid PvE healers and the single best PvP healer, hands down. Ferals don't do so well as DPS, but are superb tanks. Boomkin frankly sucked forever, but there's not much to be done about that; they can spec Restokin and find an Arena spot anytime they like. Druids were buffed substantially by the spirit changes a few months back, so much so Blizzard are nerfing their Lifebloom in 3.0; since Blizzard are quite affectionate towards Druids in general, this should indicate something to you.
Edited, Oct 15th 2008 10:51am by Sinstralis
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a 6 second stun on a 20 second cooldown.
In order to get that you need a stack of points in Prot, which removes all of that 'burst' you're talking about, as it all lives at deep Retribution AND you need the 4part PvP set bonus.
Every o-boarder is saying the same thing over and over and it isnt any truer on Alla than it is there; to get this mythical uber-stun you need 18 points in Prot which leaves only 43 for Ret, which therefore precludes all of the new talents which allow Ret to cause the damage and self-healing that people are whining about, including Divine Storm.
Ret Paladins are in fact NOT totally balanced at 70, I will acknowledge that, but then Rogues have never had a problem killing my Warlock and Shaman without taking any damage themselves either.
Looking at beta parses and lvl80 BGs, Retadins are fine up there, same as Felguard locks in 2.0. They cant nerf Paladins and then un-nerf them later, that'd just create whining from everyone. Paladins are overtuned at the moment at 70, but that won't last long, and it wont require some retributive nerf to accomplish.
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i mean..we all saw what happened to druids at the start of tbc, from what I understand they still haven't completely recovered from that nerf.
Im sorry but that's totally wrong. Resto Druids are solid PvE healers and the single best PvP healer, hands down. Ferals don't do so well as DPS, but are superb tanks. Boomkin frankly sucked forever, but there's not much to be done about that; they can spec Restokin and find an Arena spot anytime they like. Druids were buffed substantially by the spirit changes a few months back, so much so Blizzard are nerfing their Lifebloom in 3.0; since Blizzard are quite affectionate towards Druids in general, this should indicate something to you.
Edited, Oct 15th 2008 10:51am by Sinstralis
It's a 6-second stun on a *25* sec CD. And that's assuming you have the correct gear to get the set bonus.
And any half-decent arena player knows, stun is not CC. Warriors, disc priests..... Resist is a very common thing for me to see. FFS, even CloS let's you ignore it. Furthermore, many classes are getting abilities and talents to drastically reduce damage received while stunned, or reduce stun duration. Shaman turn ethereal, locks can go all emo (Metamorphosis) and ignore 50% of the duration.
Free tip for rogues: Leave a good, glaring gap between CS and KS. I guarantee, during CS the retadin is hammering (so to speak) Hammer of Justice. Activate CloS for epic win. It even lets you ignore repentence.
edit @ Salwrathis: I guarantee that paladin had big glowing wings sprouting from his back. The only way he could have got a near 3k white crit is from that damage boost, and the Sanctified Wrath talent. Pallys with that (20 second) buff just need to be CCed or avoided. Sprint!
Edited, Oct 15th 2008 10:57am by ArtemisEnteri
And any half-decent arena player knows, stun is not CC. Warriors, disc priests..... Resist is a very common thing for me to see. FFS, even CloS let's you ignore it. Furthermore, many classes are getting abilities and talents to drastically reduce damage received while stunned, or reduce stun duration. Shaman turn ethereal, locks can go all emo (Metamorphosis) and ignore 50% of the duration.
Free tip for rogues: Leave a good, glaring gap between CS and KS. I guarantee, during CS the retadin is hammering (so to speak) Hammer of Justice. Activate CloS for epic win. It even lets you ignore repentence.
edit @ Salwrathis: I guarantee that paladin had big glowing wings sprouting from his back. The only way he could have got a near 3k white crit is from that damage boost, and the Sanctified Wrath talent. Pallys with that (20 second) buff just need to be CCed or avoided. Sprint!
Edited, Oct 15th 2008 10:57am by ArtemisEnteri
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For the last goddamn time, Paladins do not have
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a 6 second stun on a 20 second cooldown.
In order to get that you need a stack of points in Prot, which removes all of that 'burst' you're talking about, as it all lives at deep Retribution AND you need the 4part PvP set bonus.
Every o-boarder is saying the same thing over and over and it isnt any truer on Alla than it is there; to get this mythical uber-stun you need 18 points in Prot which leaves only 43 for Ret, which therefore precludes all of the new talents which allow Ret to cause the damage and self-healing that people are whining about, including Divine Storm.
Ret Paladins are in fact NOT totally balanced at 70, I will acknowledge that, but then Rogues have never had a problem killing my Warlock and Shaman without taking any damage themselves either.
Looking at beta parses and lvl80 BGs, Retadins are fine up there, same as Felguard locks in 2.0. They cant nerf Paladins and then un-nerf them later, that'd just create whining from everyone. Paladins are overtuned at the moment at 70, but that won't last long, and it wont require some retributive nerf to accomplish.
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i mean..we all saw what happened to druids at the start of tbc, from what I understand they still haven't completely recovered from that nerf.
Im sorry but that's totally wrong. Resto Druids are solid PvE healers and the single best PvP healer, hands down. Ferals don't do so well as DPS, but are superb tanks. Boomkin frankly sucked forever, but there's not much to be done about that; they can spec Restokin and find an Arena spot anytime they like. Druids were buffed substantially by the spirit changes a few months back, so much so Blizzard are nerfing their Lifebloom in 3.0; since Blizzard are quite affectionate towards Druids in general, this should indicate something to you.
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a 6 second stun on a 20 second cooldown.
In order to get that you need a stack of points in Prot, which removes all of that 'burst' you're talking about, as it all lives at deep Retribution AND you need the 4part PvP set bonus.
Every o-boarder is saying the same thing over and over and it isnt any truer on Alla than it is there; to get this mythical uber-stun you need 18 points in Prot which leaves only 43 for Ret, which therefore precludes all of the new talents which allow Ret to cause the damage and self-healing that people are whining about, including Divine Storm.
Ret Paladins are in fact NOT totally balanced at 70, I will acknowledge that, but then Rogues have never had a problem killing my Warlock and Shaman without taking any damage themselves either.
Looking at beta parses and lvl80 BGs, Retadins are fine up there, same as Felguard locks in 2.0. They cant nerf Paladins and then un-nerf them later, that'd just create whining from everyone. Paladins are overtuned at the moment at 70, but that won't last long, and it wont require some retributive nerf to accomplish.
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i mean..we all saw what happened to druids at the start of tbc, from what I understand they still haven't completely recovered from that nerf.
Im sorry but that's totally wrong. Resto Druids are solid PvE healers and the single best PvP healer, hands down. Ferals don't do so well as DPS, but are superb tanks. Boomkin frankly sucked forever, but there's not much to be done about that; they can spec Restokin and find an Arena spot anytime they like. Druids were buffed substantially by the spirit changes a few months back, so much so Blizzard are nerfing their Lifebloom in 3.0; since Blizzard are quite affectionate towards Druids in general, this should indicate something to you.
I should've made myself more clear.
I know that balancing now just because things aren't really balanced atm isn't a smart move, and blizz knows that too.
So, the bulk of my post was about balance at lvl 80.
In which case, you can get the improved stun and divine storm.
And I do think ret pallies deserver a fair chance against other classes, it's been too long that people've called them retlol for now, IMO.
My comment about druids, was not about resto.
Resto druids are out of control atm, and I frankly hate to see one class be so superior to other classes.
At the start of tbc, feral druids were hitting quite hard in bear form, from what I can remember, so they got the (unneccasary)nerfbat by blizzard.
In an earlier thread, I argue with tommyguns and toj about exactly that, jer. You have to sacrifice too much at both 70 AND 80 to get the fast hammer cooldown. It might be a viable PvP spec, but you lose a number of dps talents and most of the pvp specific talents.
I was on my pally last night, and had a duel fest going on outside stormwind, I know duels don`t account for balance, but I would say I won half of them, the other half I won by luck or skill, but as a ret pally, I still LOSE, I`m in full merc, and locks still eat me, So don`t assume ret pallies need a nerf right now, hold onto your one sided opinions and wait an see what happens once 80 come around. Then tell what you see with balance issues, but to sit here and QQ about ret pallies at 70 is ridongculous or rediculous.
I have seen warriors and rogues and shamans and mages eat people on the BGs and in arena just as fast. All blizz did was give ret pallies the ability to do the same.
I have seen warriors and rogues and shamans and mages eat people on the BGs and in arena just as fast. All blizz did was give ret pallies the ability to do the same.
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Im sorry but that's totally wrong. Resto Druids are solid PvE healers and the single best PvP healer, hands down. Ferals don't do so well as DPS, but are superb tanks. Boomkin frankly sucked forever, but there's not much to be done about that; they can spec Restokin and find an Arena spot anytime they like. Druids were buffed substantially by the spirit changes a few months back, so much so Blizzard are nerfing their Lifebloom in 3.0; since Blizzard are quite affectionate towards Druids in general, this should indicate something to you.
So because they heal well, they aren't broken? Your answer to their feral forms not having any damage capabilities is to switch to Resto?
People have been saying the same thing about lolret for a long time. How do you feel its justified for druids but not for pallys?
Pallys ARE OP right now. Whether or not this will change at 80 makes no difference to any of us right now. The burst you guys put out is simply retarded, plus bubbles, plus BoF, plus insta heals, plus lay on hands. Ret has needed a buff for a long time, but when you guys are doing more damage than dedicated DD classes and have more versatility, why is there any reason not to be playing a pally?
So I went out to the plateau to do a couple dailies and frankly I started to giggle like a school girl. Basically SoC->JoL->CS was enough to get mobs down to maybe 5-10% health left if not kill the mob straight out. Upon seeing this I got one of the Rogues in my guild to come Duel me. He has roughly 8 pieces of PvP gear so he is decently geared. I have about 6 myself. The first fight (after I find him) is over in about 10 seconds it wasn't even funny. Now he admits his skill is lacking as Rogue so if we throw that aside, the sheer amount of damage I did on him in a short time span was unreal.
To top it off, one fight I decided to ease off a bit so I ended up bubbling. 2 heals I went from 1000 hp to full. I used to do 3 heals and sometimes still not be full (and be out of mana to top it off). Not to mention my Holys are over a second faster now (2.43 seconds).
To top it off, one fight I decided to ease off a bit so I ended up bubbling. 2 heals I went from 1000 hp to full. I used to do 3 heals and sometimes still not be full (and be out of mana to top it off). Not to mention my Holys are over a second faster now (2.43 seconds).
I just soloed a 3v3 arena team. It's now just a matter of *when* this will change, not if.
I'd just like to point out the fact I didn't like ret paladins before, so this changes nothing.
I hope I get to play long enough tonight to see this. Pallies in great gear could already do some things but I want to see the completely sick stuff.
*sigh*. Settle down. Unfroth.
'Any' damage capability? Feral Druids actually do pretty good damage, just not up to Rogue/Lock/Mage standards. I have no idea if this persists into 3.0 (which is the only relevant topic) so I'm going to let it lie.
Once again, I didnt say anything of the sort, so please don't use me as a target dummy for your whinefest.
I use the Felguard example over and over because it is perfect; at 60 the Felguard utterly unbalanced PvP, my Warlock could cheerfully take on two or three opponents with the FG running around. Everyone called for a nerf, none appeared; eventually at 70, the Felguard sucked so much you never saw them again.
Well LoH isnt useable in Arena and packs a 20min cooldown, it's a gimmick left over from D&D for goodness sake. BoF isnt really any different from Ferals shifting out of roots, it provides immunity but it's dispellable and has a healthy cooldown. The insta-heals are procced off crits which are relatively rare in high-end PvP and even Sheath of Light heals arent that awesome. The burst comment I agree with, but it scales better at 80 is all I can say.
Well there's the rub. Do we nerf Retadins or do we buff the classes that are lacking? Blizzard want all classes with a damage spec to do similar damage, regardless of what 'dedicated' classes would like. Rogues and Warriors are doing great damage, better than Retadins actually; Hunters are doing alright with the right spec; Warlocks arent too bad but could be better. Shamans and Shadow Priests really need work. Retadins might be near the top of the pile, but it's the bottom that needs bringing up, not more senseless nerfs.
Edited, Oct 15th 2008 4:12pm by Sinstralis
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So because they heal well, they aren't broken? Your answer to their feral forms not having any damage capabilities is to switch to Resto?
'Any' damage capability? Feral Druids actually do pretty good damage, just not up to Rogue/Lock/Mage standards. I have no idea if this persists into 3.0 (which is the only relevant topic) so I'm going to let it lie.
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People have been saying the same thing about lolret for a long time. How do you feel its justified for druids but not for pallys?
Once again, I didnt say anything of the sort, so please don't use me as a target dummy for your whinefest.
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Pallys ARE OP right now. Whether or not this will change at 80 makes no difference to any of us right now.
I use the Felguard example over and over because it is perfect; at 60 the Felguard utterly unbalanced PvP, my Warlock could cheerfully take on two or three opponents with the FG running around. Everyone called for a nerf, none appeared; eventually at 70, the Felguard sucked so much you never saw them again.
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The burst you guys put out is simply retarded, plus bubbles, plus BoF, plus insta heals, plus lay on hands.
Well LoH isnt useable in Arena and packs a 20min cooldown, it's a gimmick left over from D&D for goodness sake. BoF isnt really any different from Ferals shifting out of roots, it provides immunity but it's dispellable and has a healthy cooldown. The insta-heals are procced off crits which are relatively rare in high-end PvP and even Sheath of Light heals arent that awesome. The burst comment I agree with, but it scales better at 80 is all I can say.
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but when you guys are doing more damage than dedicated DD classes
Well there's the rub. Do we nerf Retadins or do we buff the classes that are lacking? Blizzard want all classes with a damage spec to do similar damage, regardless of what 'dedicated' classes would like. Rogues and Warriors are doing great damage, better than Retadins actually; Hunters are doing alright with the right spec; Warlocks arent too bad but could be better. Shamans and Shadow Priests really need work. Retadins might be near the top of the pile, but it's the bottom that needs bringing up, not more senseless nerfs.
Edited, Oct 15th 2008 4:12pm by Sinstralis
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Well there's the rub. Do we nerf Retadins or do we buff the classes that are lacking? Blizzard want all classes with a damage spec to do similar damage, regardless of what 'dedicated' classes would like. Rogues and Warriors are doing great damage, better than Retadins actually; Hunters are doing alright with the right spec; Warlocks arent too bad but could be better. Shamans and Shadow Priests really need work. Retadins might be near the top of the pile, but it's the bottom that needs bringing up, not more senseless nerfs.
/ AGREE BIG TIME.
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