Hello everyone. I've always lurked around the forums and read quite a bit, but never took the time to actually post anything because a) I'm not nearly as experienced as most of the posters, and b) anytime there is a question I could answer, Theo or someone else swoops in quickly enough with all of the facts and knowledge. This question isn't really about facts, its mostly just an opinion I have and I would like to hear the feedback of you other rogues.
Anyways, I've always enjoyed playing (and raiding, gasp) with the Muti spec. Yeah, even pre-3.0. I currently don't mind switching to combat if I know the raid really needs it (I always end up being top or near-top DPS either way) but the assassination tree has always been my favorite. Needless to say, I was pretty excited when I started seeing all of the changes to the trees and when people (like Vulajin) started proving that Muti would be the new top-DPS spec. I was happy because I wouldn't have to feel bad for playing muti and potentially gimping the raid...I'd be playing the spec I enjoy most and providing the most DPS at the same time.
Anyways, there is just one thing that I've found quite annoying lately. The latest figure I've heard is that Mutilate currently beats combat by 5% DPS (from Vulajin and such). Who knows, it may have already changed since I last saw that. Depending on who you listen to, and I forget the EXACT number "proven", Combat currently beats Mutilate by 5%-10% damage when played correctly. So basically my problem is this: all over the rogue forums, and in discussions with other rogues on my tiny realm, just the word choice they are using implies that they aren't that overwhelmed or excited with the Muti change. People seem to think that these changes are so marginal when compared to overall DPS that they will just stick to combat because it is what they are familiar with...or maybe not feel AS bad for sticking with it since its not the "top" DPS build...People will use word choice like "Muti is only beating combat slightly" and so on.
It just seems kind of hypocritical to me. I remember reading a post Theo made a while ago (I don't remember where...and even if I did I wouldn't know the format to quote it) where he said "Now Mutilate actually gets brought to raids"...not that I'm trying to single out Theo or anything, just what I remember off the top of my head, but just the words most people in general have been using recently, I really doubt there is going to be the same mentality of "Well, we can't bring Combat to raids any more." I feel that combat is going to continue getting the benefit of the doubt, while assassination never did in the past. Now that the 5% has switched to the other side, people aren't yelling to have combat done away with. Now everything seems to be on "equal ground" when the sides have only flipped...
Whats with the double standard? Why is Mutilate always the victim? Maybe I'm just reading too much into it, and am too protective of Muti because I've always enjoyed it, but I've tried to figure out why things are like this now that the shoe is on the other foot, so to speak. Sorry for the long post and hope I don't get flamed too terribly. I'd be interested in reading all of your opinions.
- Forums
- World of Warcraft
- Class Discussion
- Mutilate Double Standard
Mutilate Double StandardFollow
I think it's mostly down to inertia - some people are slow to accept change and it'll take some time before they can "get with the program" and see Muti as being the top raid dps in the new system.
When it goes live, when people have the weapons for Muti and when people start raiding the WotLK content, I think everyone will have to reassess their builds and see what works best. I'm sure some people will continue with combat-swords just as some misguided fools raid with ShS build right now.
When it goes live, when people have the weapons for Muti and when people start raiding the WotLK content, I think everyone will have to reassess their builds and see what works best. I'm sure some people will continue with combat-swords just as some misguided fools raid with ShS build right now.
Lots of people don't have two good daggers, is this not explanation enough?
Ehm..
Have fate in Blizzard? I do =P
Have fate in Blizzard? I do =P
It's up in the air at the moment as to whether it's going to stay at the top of raid DPS. It seems vaguely paranoid to shout "Bias!", but if Mutilate stays better than Combat then more rogues will go Mutilate. They're just probably not sure yet. For one, there's no end-game in the Wrath beta. People aren't at the stage where they have to min/max yet.
If Blizzard actually manages to get them genuinely balanced, so that picking one or the other is basically a toss-up, then...well, that'd be pretty miraculous.
If Blizzard actually manages to get them genuinely balanced, so that picking one or the other is basically a toss-up, then...well, that'd be pretty miraculous.
I am hoping that Mutilate and Combat stay within a few percent of each other so that either build will be viable and you will no longer be forced into a spec.
Mutilate may not be getting a whole lot of attention because it is a much more complicated build to play when compared to combat.
-Mutilate = random numbers of combo points and requires quick thinking to dump the extras while keeping SnD and Rupture up.
-Combat = bind SS to every key and face roll on your keyboard FTW.
This is an extreme over simplification of course, but Combat is a much easier spec to play based on its lack of diversity. This may be one reason why you will see a lot of "casual" Rogues stay combat, even if Mutilate continues to show supreme DPS. Much like Leodis mentioned, some Rogues still raid as LoLstep.
Mutilate may not be getting a whole lot of attention because it is a much more complicated build to play when compared to combat.
-Mutilate = random numbers of combo points and requires quick thinking to dump the extras while keeping SnD and Rupture up.
-Combat = bind SS to every key and face roll on your keyboard FTW.
This is an extreme over simplification of course, but Combat is a much easier spec to play based on its lack of diversity. This may be one reason why you will see a lot of "casual" Rogues stay combat, even if Mutilate continues to show supreme DPS. Much like Leodis mentioned, some Rogues still raid as LoLstep.
15 posts
Thanks for your responses. I reread what I wrote after drinking some coffee and I thought of a more concise way of putting forth my argument...
Several times, I've been turned away from Heroic or Kara PUGs because I told them I was specced assassination. I wouldn't try to defend my DPS or argue with them, I would just accept it. I wouldn't ask for or expect to get any sympathy from the rogue community because of this...its one of those "too bad too sad, they want the best" kind of situations.
Now, based on the way the rogue community has been acting lately, if I were to say the same thing to a Level 80 combat rogue for a random PUG, I would look like a complete idiot. Everyones been saying that Muti is barely "winning" against combat, but winning none-the-less. Thats just the connotations that have been given recently. While right now people pretend that Combat and Muti DPS is worlds apart...I just don't understand why this DPS difference can't be applied equally to both sides of the table.
I really don't see the "hard to get two good daggers" point as being valid because most theorycrafting and speculation has been centered around Lv80 talents and such, where most people are going to have clean slates equipment wise. It would be different if we were discussing the Lv70 raiding that will be going on for about two weeks when this next patch goes live.
Of course in a perfect world the DPS of the two trees would be virtually the same so everyone could be happy, but I don't really see them making any more changes to us in the week it's going to take for this patch to hit. But who knows...this whole tiff of mine could be moot by tomorrow.
Edit: spelling
Edited, Oct 8th 2008 9:44am by Althormoon
Edited, Oct 8th 2008 9:46am by Althormoon
Several times, I've been turned away from Heroic or Kara PUGs because I told them I was specced assassination. I wouldn't try to defend my DPS or argue with them, I would just accept it. I wouldn't ask for or expect to get any sympathy from the rogue community because of this...its one of those "too bad too sad, they want the best" kind of situations.
Now, based on the way the rogue community has been acting lately, if I were to say the same thing to a Level 80 combat rogue for a random PUG, I would look like a complete idiot. Everyones been saying that Muti is barely "winning" against combat, but winning none-the-less. Thats just the connotations that have been given recently. While right now people pretend that Combat and Muti DPS is worlds apart...I just don't understand why this DPS difference can't be applied equally to both sides of the table.
I really don't see the "hard to get two good daggers" point as being valid because most theorycrafting and speculation has been centered around Lv80 talents and such, where most people are going to have clean slates equipment wise. It would be different if we were discussing the Lv70 raiding that will be going on for about two weeks when this next patch goes live.
Of course in a perfect world the DPS of the two trees would be virtually the same so everyone could be happy, but I don't really see them making any more changes to us in the week it's going to take for this patch to hit. But who knows...this whole tiff of mine could be moot by tomorrow.
Edit: spelling
Edited, Oct 8th 2008 9:44am by Althormoon
Edited, Oct 8th 2008 9:46am by Althormoon
I think it has to do with Combat being the staple for rogues for so long that people are just use to it. It's hard to change. They aren't really convinced that muti is the best.
Look at hunters. There are some people out there that still hold the stigma that MM is the best because it was the top of the charts for so long way back in Vanilla WoW.
People have a hard time letting go of what they are use to and they will do what they can to convince themselves there is no need to change.
Look at hunters. There are some people out there that still hold the stigma that MM is the best because it was the top of the charts for so long way back in Vanilla WoW.
People have a hard time letting go of what they are use to and they will do what they can to convince themselves there is no need to change.
Althormoon wrote:
Several times, I've been turned away from Heroic or Kara PUGs because I told them I was specced assassination. I wouldn't try to defend my DPS or argue with them, I would just accept it. I wouldn't ask for or expect to get any sympathy from the rogue community because of this...its one of those "too bad too sad, they want the best" kind of situations.
Personally I wouldn't turn away a Mutilate rogue who could do sufficient DPS. Your job is to show up and do enough DPS to kill the boss, so if you can do that you're in. If you're a retarded muti rogue who can't play the game then it's different, and I can usually tell pretty quickly by glancing at the spec.
Quote:
Now, based on the way the rogue community has been acting lately, if I were to say the same thing to a Level 80 combat rogue for a random PUG, I would look like a complete idiot. Everyones been saying that Muti is barely "winning" against combat, but winning none-the-less. Thats just the connotations that have been given recently. While right now people pretend that Combat and Muti DPS is worlds apart...I just don't understand why this DPS difference can't be applied equally to both sides of the table.
Well, I'm not sure how you can say that right now. The xpac isn't here, people aren't pugging for 80 instances, and I have no idea if they'd turn away a rogue because he isn't muti. Like I said, the people in the beta haven't reached the stage where they really need to optimise. They're still trying to figure out what the optimum is.
So I think your point is solid. I mean, as a raid leader, I never really practiced a...double standard. I never turned a good muti rogue down if I knew he could put out the DPS we needed. I would take the same attitude to combat rogues after the xpac. The people who did do that - namely, the people who turned you down for whatever because of your spec - were probably being stupidly uptight about the whole thing. It really depends on where you are in the raiding ladder; if you were trying to get into a T5/T6 guild and they turned you down, fine, they need to run a tight show and mutilate falls behind at that level, regardless of skill. If you were denied access to a daily heroic because you were mutilate, then...well, that guy was just an idiot, frankly, and I wouldn't worry too much about it.
At the very least, these changes must feel like a vindication. I wouldn't taint that by complaining.
Edited, Oct 8th 2008 11:03am by zepoodle
Quote:
Whats with the double standard? Why is Mutilate always the victim?
The more pertinent question is why are you always the victim, not the spec.
Unless there are significant Nature or Poison-immune bosses, Muti will become the primary spec except when you want Combat's 2% physical damage increase (read: Do not have an Arms Warrior). There's not much more to say about it other than that, really.
You really need to learn how to read.
I've always been a min/maxer. Every single post I make here is about min/maxing or pointing out when someone is being an idiot.
This post is a combination of the two.
Assassination is not viable in the current game.
This will change in 3.0.2.
Why?
Because Assassination is receiving enough talents in the 41-51 talent point range that it will make Assassination a better build than Combat for pure DPS.
You misconstrued my posts on the subject in this thread, and you definitely haven't read the sticky, nor have you read my recent posts on the subject.
I've always been a min/maxer. Every single post I make here is about min/maxing or pointing out when someone is being an idiot.
This post is a combination of the two.
Assassination is not viable in the current game.
This will change in 3.0.2.
Why?
Because Assassination is receiving enough talents in the 41-51 talent point range that it will make Assassination a better build than Combat for pure DPS.
You misconstrued my posts on the subject in this thread, and you definitely haven't read the sticky, nor have you read my recent posts on the subject.
15 posts
Quote:
You misconstrued my posts on the subject in this thread, and you definitely haven't read the sticky, nor have you read my recent posts on the subject.
Well Theo, it only took me about 5 seconds to read one of your recent posts in which you once again illustrate my point. The "3.0 Builds Consolidated" thread where you edited/fixed someones post to say "what builds are really premier builds. mutilate and combat fist/dagger are good." The way people are talking...the stigma that is now associated with Muti is not going to be associated with Combat in the future, as far as I can tell. Your response to the thread here failed to illustrate your opinion on this paradox..instead you just stated whats the max now and what the max will be. No one here has been arguing about different min/maxes so I don't see why you had to state that. Instead you then resorted to insulting my intelligence by saying I haven't read anything when I assure you I have, and I would invite you to find a place in this thread where I have spoken in contradiction of the sticky or other good sources.
Althormoon wrote:
Quote:
You misconstrued my posts on the subject in this thread, and you definitely haven't read the sticky, nor have you read my recent posts on the subject.
Well Theo, it only took me about 5 seconds to read one of your recent posts in which you once again illustrate my point. The "3.0 Builds Consolidated" thread where you edited/fixed someones post to say "what builds are really premier builds. mutilate and combat fist/dagger are good." The way people are talking...the stigma that is now associated with Muti is not going to be associated with Combat in the future, as far as I can tell. Your response to the thread here failed to illustrate your opinion on this paradox..instead you just stated whats the max now and what the max will be. No one here has been arguing about different min/maxes so I don't see why you had to state that. Instead you then resorted to insulting my intelligence by saying I haven't read anything when I assure you I have, and I would invite you to find a place in this thread where I have spoken in contradiction of the sticky or other good sources.
I'm resisting my urge to completely flame you until you just stop posting here, but you're blinded by your love of mutilate as to what the standard is.
Most people like playing mutilate. For that matter, most people just like playing the rogue class. After all, if you didn't like playing a rogue, wouldn't you reroll?
I don't have a problem playing mutilate. I actually played it for nearly the entirety of season 2. I actually LIKE mutilate.
Your post seems to imply that people aren't jumping for joy with this change. Trust me, a lot of people are, but most people are so indifferent after finding the best spec, that they just don't care.
No one is putting down mutilate at all. I haven't seen one single post here (and I read just about every post) that says they're sad/angry about the change to mutilate being the top DPS build. Most people here are very happy/content with it.
Combat is competitive after the last beta patch, though. You need to understand that. It's basically the Arms to mutilate's Fury. You bring a combat rogue if you don't have an Arms warrior for the 2% physical DPS buff, but after that you bring mutilate rogues.
I'd say a good 90% of the regulars that post here are min/maxers. We only care about doing the best DPS, and none of us have been crying that combat isn't going to be the spec of choice anymore.
Neither are we jumping for joy (except for Therion from what I've seen) that mutilate will be the best choice come WotLK (and possibly 3.0.2). It's to be expected; we're doing math on the different specs and we expect things to change a little bit between now and November, especially with Blizzcon coming up.
My opinion has nothing to do with anything, because opinion has no bearing on DPS. If you don't spec combat currently you're an idiot for not doing your job correctly. If you don't spec mutilate when it's the best you're an idiot for not doing your job correctly.
There is a definite right and wrong in this scenario, and opinions don't need to be involved. If this game was opinion-based, I'd raid as ShS because that's my favorite build.
But WoW and raiding don't work that way. You spec to min/max unless your guild sucks and doesn't care about progression. End of story.
If you don't like it, go ahead and leave. We won't lose anything by losing a whiney mutilate fanboi who thinks we should all be giddy teenage girls drooling over this change like they drool over Brad Pitt or whoever they drool over these days. You're adding nothing to the discussion on this forum, so...
Don't let the door hit you on the *** on your way out.
zepoodle wrote:
Personally I wouldn't turn away a Mutilate rogue who could do sufficient DPS. Your job is to show up and do enough DPS to kill the boss, so if you can do that you're in. If you're a retarded muti rogue who can't play the game then it's different, and I can usually tell pretty quickly by glancing at the spec.
As long as the boss goes down eventually, right?
Theophany wrote:
Neither are we jumping for joy (except for Therion from what I've seen) that mutilate will be the best choice come WotLK (and possibly 3.0.2).
I'm not exactly jumping, but that's only because it's very hard to type while constantly in motion.
Jophiel wrote:
I managed to be both retarded and entertaining.
I for one can say I'm not jumping for joy about the changing of the guard for rogue DPS.
I specced Muti for about an hour one day and didn't like it. I leveled as ShS (yes I know dumb dumb dumb) and I raid as Combat and always have since my first Kara raid.
I am a min/maxer and will always be. If it takes me speccing Muti to do my job to the best I can I will, if it's speccing combat/swords/fists/daggers or a combination of those I will.
***Warning: Personal Opinion*****
I hated combat when I first specced into it but I think it has grown on me. :)
As for Mutilate I think with the positional reqs removed it is going to be more fun for me to play. Of course I only have a Malachazeen and The Emerald Ripper for daggers so it may be awhile for me before I get to see the numbers that some others will out of Mutilate right off the bat. But for now I have my Vanir's and we'll see what happens in the patch then the expansion.
Either way I will specc/respecc to what is the top DPS spec for rogues.
I specced Muti for about an hour one day and didn't like it. I leveled as ShS (yes I know dumb dumb dumb) and I raid as Combat and always have since my first Kara raid.
I am a min/maxer and will always be. If it takes me speccing Muti to do my job to the best I can I will, if it's speccing combat/swords/fists/daggers or a combination of those I will.
***Warning: Personal Opinion*****
I hated combat when I first specced into it but I think it has grown on me. :)
As for Mutilate I think with the positional reqs removed it is going to be more fun for me to play. Of course I only have a Malachazeen and The Emerald Ripper for daggers so it may be awhile for me before I get to see the numbers that some others will out of Mutilate right off the bat. But for now I have my Vanir's and we'll see what happens in the patch then the expansion.
Either way I will specc/respecc to what is the top DPS spec for rogues.
AS a rogue who has played both pvp and pve (on a pvp server) i find my own personal expreience with mutialte very enthralling.
I find mutilate atm a middle ground of pvp and pve. Not the best at both but can do both with average (sometimes above average results). I can BG, and arena (3s, 5s) and still be good. Im not expecting 1800 rating when doing arenas but im expecting a good turn out when we focus fire. Wtih Bg's PLAying Defense as mutilate is very rewarding (Muti/Combat btw). In WSG i defend the flag very well since the FC is running away from me and others. In AB I have alot of backup usually (stay in groups when u have ****** stealth). EoTS, just run with your group and do what u can. With the added run speed and the chance to resist movement, I can be a good a FC on EoTS and WSG if i have a healer with me (same for Shadowstep and such)
What im pointing out is as i said at the beginning is that from my own personnal experience you can save the 50 gold respec by going mutilate (provided proper gear of course) becuase its the "average" of the full PVE and PVP specs.
I have fought combat rogues in BGs and laughed at how the only way the can possibly have chance is 1v1 and with AR and BF ready, resulting in me blinding or vanishing till that buff runs out.
I played ShS in Kara and TK to VR and Solarian (downed both but my dps was horrible 600-700, instead of my combat 900-1.2k. My gear was T4 to T5 respectively). Only way i could do 1k dps was a Premeditate , Garrote, shiv deadly, 5 point rupture and hemo to my lifes content with SnD up as often as i can keep it up, not 100% of the time.
With Mutilate in all raids, pve dungeons, pvp bgs and arena I can do some dmg. In raids ranging from KAra to Hyjal i can reach 1k- 1.2k dps. Benefit of raids is that im always behind w.e im attacking to tak advantage of the parry and so forth things mitigated form behind. Also I feel mage like, bursting 3k-4k muti on mobs and bosses with full raid buffs and full mob debuffs. In arena (besides 2v2 since CC in muti/combat is damn near impossible for sap) finding the target and stickign on him is easy with the necessity of keeping a poison on your target. Reducing heals ,wound, and making them slow ,cripple, is a benefit.
I find mutilate very situational. Only problem i have against are mages since ShS is mage bane. Cheapshot, they blink, shadowstep, kidney, rape. Mutilate is very CD heavy. Having endurance instead of improved sprint helped me more against melee class, but i wish i could have both (3.0 yay! but probabaly never gonna spec into it because of the Sub tree necessity)
Ill wrap it up with this. Mutilate is the in between of the PVE and PVP spec. Dont go around on O with it, its more defensive. It can down quest mobs in one cheapshot if geared properly and when crits hit. In raids atm i can be near rogues pre/during T6 (where my guild is atm, downed one token boss, new guild btw). In PvP with the proper group it can prove lethal. YOu have to be delicate wiht yourself and time your CoS vanish appropriately since the vanish CD is a full 5 min and no prepation. I find Mutilate for the rogues that enjoy having Big pros and very large cons, a sort of true un-OP rogue.
We know a good 10 second stun is very Op when we can chop off 7-12k hp on mail and under armor foes.
Apologies for the long read if you actually read it all.
I find mutilate atm a middle ground of pvp and pve. Not the best at both but can do both with average (sometimes above average results). I can BG, and arena (3s, 5s) and still be good. Im not expecting 1800 rating when doing arenas but im expecting a good turn out when we focus fire. Wtih Bg's PLAying Defense as mutilate is very rewarding (Muti/Combat btw). In WSG i defend the flag very well since the FC is running away from me and others. In AB I have alot of backup usually (stay in groups when u have ****** stealth). EoTS, just run with your group and do what u can. With the added run speed and the chance to resist movement, I can be a good a FC on EoTS and WSG if i have a healer with me (same for Shadowstep and such)
What im pointing out is as i said at the beginning is that from my own personnal experience you can save the 50 gold respec by going mutilate (provided proper gear of course) becuase its the "average" of the full PVE and PVP specs.
I have fought combat rogues in BGs and laughed at how the only way the can possibly have chance is 1v1 and with AR and BF ready, resulting in me blinding or vanishing till that buff runs out.
I played ShS in Kara and TK to VR and Solarian (downed both but my dps was horrible 600-700, instead of my combat 900-1.2k. My gear was T4 to T5 respectively). Only way i could do 1k dps was a Premeditate , Garrote, shiv deadly, 5 point rupture and hemo to my lifes content with SnD up as often as i can keep it up, not 100% of the time.
With Mutilate in all raids, pve dungeons, pvp bgs and arena I can do some dmg. In raids ranging from KAra to Hyjal i can reach 1k- 1.2k dps. Benefit of raids is that im always behind w.e im attacking to tak advantage of the parry and so forth things mitigated form behind. Also I feel mage like, bursting 3k-4k muti on mobs and bosses with full raid buffs and full mob debuffs. In arena (besides 2v2 since CC in muti/combat is damn near impossible for sap) finding the target and stickign on him is easy with the necessity of keeping a poison on your target. Reducing heals ,wound, and making them slow ,cripple, is a benefit.
I find mutilate very situational. Only problem i have against are mages since ShS is mage bane. Cheapshot, they blink, shadowstep, kidney, rape. Mutilate is very CD heavy. Having endurance instead of improved sprint helped me more against melee class, but i wish i could have both (3.0 yay! but probabaly never gonna spec into it because of the Sub tree necessity)
Ill wrap it up with this. Mutilate is the in between of the PVE and PVP spec. Dont go around on O with it, its more defensive. It can down quest mobs in one cheapshot if geared properly and when crits hit. In raids atm i can be near rogues pre/during T6 (where my guild is atm, downed one token boss, new guild btw). In PvP with the proper group it can prove lethal. YOu have to be delicate wiht yourself and time your CoS vanish appropriately since the vanish CD is a full 5 min and no prepation. I find Mutilate for the rogues that enjoy having Big pros and very large cons, a sort of true un-OP rogue.
We know a good 10 second stun is very Op when we can chop off 7-12k hp on mail and under armor foes.
Apologies for the long read if you actually read it all.
Demea wrote:
zepoodle wrote:
Personally I wouldn't turn away a Mutilate rogue who could do sufficient DPS. Your job is to show up and do enough DPS to kill the boss, so if you can do that you're in. If you're a retarded muti rogue who can't play the game then it's different, and I can usually tell pretty quickly by glancing at the spec.
As long as the boss goes down eventually, right?
Veerrry funny. Just wait until you say something stupid that everyone disagrees with. It happens to everyone eventually.
15 posts
Quote:
Don't let the door hit you on the *** on your way out.
I never intended to start an argument or flamewar or whatever with you. Nevertheless, it would take a lot more than 2 rude posts from you to send me out the door. In fact, if that were the case for most people who frequent these forums...well, the rogue forums would be a ghost town to say the least...no thanks to you. Plus I don't want to leave because I'm still waiting for you to point out where I've contradicted sources like the sticky and Vulajin's spreadsheet (I don't read, remember?)
But I am glad you and RPZip pointed out the +2% physical damage from combat. That is fortunate for those who find Muti too challenging or just enjoy combat more. I'll admit it was not something I had considered before, so thanks you two for shining light on that. I'd rate you up if I could. I was just looking for peoples opinions and ended up learning something new which is always nice. Assuming you're PvE focused and don't really care about PvP, you'll still be able to take full advantage of the upcoming dual-spec feature and will be able to flip-flop between these two specs if your raid needs the extra 2%. Too bad rogues who like to PvP will still have to sacrifice one.
Also, not that I'm a karma *****, but thank you to whoever rated up my previous post. I was rated down to default when Theo posted his retaliation, and in my experience its much more enjoyable to read both sides of the story rather than one.
If everyone on these forums left after being called an idiot it would be just Allakhazam in a circle jerk with the Asylum guys. It's good to see you have a thick skin.
Quote:
There is a definite right and wrong in this scenario, and opinions don't need to be involved. If this game was opinion-based, I'd raid as ShS because that's my favorite build.
But WoW and raiding don't work that way. You spec to min/max unless your guild sucks and doesn't care about progression. End of story.
But WoW and raiding don't work that way. You spec to min/max unless your guild sucks and doesn't care about progression. End of story.
I'd say that's an opinion? If you hadn't posted the bolded part I wouldn't have bothered with this reply. Like you pointed out yourself often enough, we all (or most of us) play this game for fun. Here you're calling 'people' sucky for not doing what you consider fun.
I could dig up the good old 'RP' as an example, and I just did, even though I didn't consider it too necissary anymore.
Althormoon wrote:
That is fortunate for those who find Muti too challenging or just enjoy combat more.
Mutilate challenging?
Please. No PvE spec is challenging in this game, and mutilate is the same as combat except you spam mutilate instead of SS.
And Mozared, you should know by now you can still have fun in this game while sucking.
Edited, Oct 9th 2008 11:02am by Theophany
Challenging should not have been the word i should of used. Ill say it is more situational, as in not going for the full 5 cps type of thing. Anything over 3 cp i use a finisher when i mutilate.
EziNewDream wrote:
Challenging should not have been the word i should of used. Ill say it is more situational, as in not going for the full 5 cps type of thing. Anything over 3 cp i use a finisher when i mutilate.
Three? If you have 3 cps, why wouldn't you mutilate? You are gaurenteed a 5 point finisher and at worst, you are losing a single combo point, which will be given back to you anyway thanks to relentless strikes. Note that you only have a 60% chance of getting that point back with 3 cps.
And yes, situational is a better term than challenging when describing Mutilate, but once you get used to it, it is a mind numbingly simple as combat.
Edit: and I read your post kinda quick and so I didn't really register that you said "over 3", so I hope that by that you would mutilate at 3 and only finish if you have 4 or 5. If so, please carry on and ignore the above.
Edited, Oct 9th 2008 3:47pm by AtrophyGFour
zepoodle wrote:
Demea wrote:
zepoodle wrote:
Personally I wouldn't turn away a Mutilate rogue who could do sufficient DPS. Your job is to show up and do enough DPS to kill the boss, so if you can do that you're in. If you're a retarded muti rogue who can't play the game then it's different, and I can usually tell pretty quickly by glancing at the spec.
As long as the boss goes down eventually, right?
Veerrry funny. Just wait until you say something stupid that everyone disagrees with. It happens to everyone eventually.
I got all my "stupid" out of the way years ago. Besides, I've since learned to ensure that all of my opinions are variable enough not to be set in stone.
There's a certain tact in being able to say "yup, I was wrong."
Jophiel wrote:
I managed to be both retarded and entertaining.
No there isn't, Demea. You hae to fight it to the bitter end, even when everyone, including yourself, knows you were wrong. If you really have to concede then at last toss an insult when you do so.
Edited, Oct 9th 2008 7:58pm by Kavekk
Edited, Oct 9th 2008 7:58pm by Kavekk
Demea wrote:
There's a certain tact in being able to say "yup, I was wrong."
Neither of us was really wrong. I was speaking from the perspective of casual raiding and heroics and you were speaking from the perspective of BT and Sunwell. From your perspective it's obviously wrong, and from my perspective it's totally irrelevant.
I mean, you hardly ever post except to tell everyone how much you don't care about a given topic, which I think would be you breaking your own law.
Recent Visitors: 106
All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (106)
- Forums
- World of Warcraft
- Class Discussion
- Mutilate Double Standard
© 2024 Fanbyte LLC