Wrath AP vs Spell Damage vs healing builds :: Free Realms

Scholar

135 posts

Of you people in beta can you please help those of us without it?

What I would like to know is at level 80 what levels of spell power and Attack power are you seeing on gear healing and ret gear?
Also for a paladin in Healing gear (Stamina, Int and Spell power) what is your attack power?

Reason I'm asking is with my guild planning on doing several instances on the way to eighty I figured I would get used to what I plan to do at eighty with either a holy/ret ret/holy or holy/prot build. Knowing what might be the case might help others or myself make a decision.

Basically considering these thoughts on the changes in Wrath to healing paladins

Kings is still not a baseline talent but easy to get to with only 5 pts in Protection for full 10% increase on stats
Anticipation might be good for a healer to avoid some damage. Otherwise
If Sheath of light build getting +15% strength and 2x Strength for AP (+ (Character Level*3) - 20) and 30% of that counting for additional spell power for Sheath of Light
5/5 Toughness in tier 3 gives 30% to avoid movement slowing effects to help keep you up with the tank you cast hand of freedom on.
3/3 Devotion Aura +6% amount healed for anyone healing them. Does this stack with Tree aura?
Blessing of Sanctuary becomes second best possibly tied for best blessing. (Damage taken reduced by up to 3% and blocked, parried, and dodged melee attacks cause a gain 10 rage, 20 runic power, or 2% of maximum mana.)

Sacred Duty +6% Stamina
combat Expertise 3/3 requires 35 points in protection and adds 6% cirtical strike and 6% stamina
Touched by the Light 3/3 requires 40 points - Increases your spell power by an amount equal to 30% of your Stamina and increases the amount healed by your critical heals by 30%.

Healadin - 51/20/0 or 50/21/0 depends on if you think B(e)acon of light is worth it. 5 mans I can see it being very useful especially paired with glyph of holy light. For raids I think bacon of light will not be worth it unless you can gurantee the person you are healing will not be healed by someone else. So for raids it will only be useful if you are last healer standing or all the healers are paladins with same bacon of light target, otherwise I could see someone else with heal the target before your heal hits and the bacon is left with no corresponding heal since bacon of light is based on effective heal and overhealing doesn't do anything.
Critadin - 53/0/18, 48/5/18 max your crit chances with or without Kings. Basically max your critical strike with 5/5 conviction and 3/3 Sanctified seals.
Heal Battery - 37/0/34 or 38/0/33 or 35/0/36 Retribution down to 3/3 Judgements of the Wise may include Repentance or not, last one ignores holy shock to get instant flash of light. Your heals will hit for less but you should have no mana issues.
Ret Healer - 28/0/43, or 23/5/43 or 25/0/46 Main goal is 3/3 Sheath of Light for 30% of Attack power is spell damage also. But if you go this deep you might also want 3/3 Swift Retribution to further increase your retribution aura with 3% haste. for the 5 in Protection I would probably lean towards kings over divine strength but you could always go for both and do 15/10/46 to get illumination, kings, divine strength.

Holy Cleanser - include 3/3 Sacred Cleansing and 2/2 Purifying power in your holy talents Sacred Cleansing might be worth it if there are fights where poisons, diseases or magical effects are hitting the group and you can increase their resistance by 30%.
King me - 5/5 blessing of Kings
Getting Handy - 2/2 Improved Lay on hands (16 minute cooldown on lay on hands) combine this with Glyph of Divinity (grants you as much mana as it grants the target.) and minor glyph of Lay on hands (increases mana returned by 20%). I see the Glyph of Lay on Hands as possibly one of the best minor glyphs/

If judgements can miss, judgement is considered physical ranged then hit rating is only 9% or 5% with enlightened judgements. Hopefully this is still true in Wrath.

Edited, Oct 7th 2008 12:45pm by cbadger

#2 Oct 08 2008 at 5:07 AM Rating: Good

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Sage

648 posts

cbadger wrote:

Of you people in beta can you please help those of us without it?

What I would like to know is at level 80 what levels of spell power and Attack power are you seeing on gear healing and ret gear?

on my premade pally with full deadly gladiator's pvp gear i have 1594 SP (1798 SP for FoL because of the libram), 26.23% spell crit and 110 mp5 in healing gear and about 2600 AP and 22% crit in dps gear. i'd take a guess that both those numbers will be higher for a pve epic'd healer or ret.

cbadger wrote:

Also for a paladin in Healing gear (Stamina, Int and Spell power) what is your attack power?

on my premade the base (unbuffed/unspecc'd) stats are 5599 Mana and 524 AP (which would be about 1100 with BoM for an SoL spec'd healer). specc'ing to heal the only thing you probably will take to boost that will be imp BoM for an additional 130ish AP.

cbadger wrote:

Kings is still not a baseline talent but easy to get to with only 5 pts in Protection for full 10% increase on stats
Anticipation might be good for a healer to avoid some damage. Otherwise
If Sheath of light build getting +15% strength and 2x Strength for AP (+ (Character Level*3) - 20) and 30% of that counting for additional spell power for Sheath of Light
5/5 Toughness in tier 3 gives 30% to avoid movement slowing effects to help keep you up with the tank you cast hand of freedom on.
3/3 Devotion Aura +6% amount healed for anyone healing them. Does this stack with Tree aura?
Blessing of Sanctuary becomes second best possibly tied for best blessing. (Damage taken reduced by up to 3% and blocked, parried, and dodged melee attacks cause a gain 10 rage, 20 runic power, or 2% of maximum mana.)

eh, i personally don't see many healing pallies going into prot for healing. maybe for PVP, but thats about it. anticipation will be useless in raids (much like it is now). BoK is 5 points you could spend to boost your healing... looking at different specs i don't see how any healer can aford kings and still have everything they need. i can see a prot pally maybe but that will still be tight. personally i think ret will be the best bet for getting Kings. regarding Divne Strength, i think AP buffs will be as much as i'd ecommend getting for boosting your +healing. deep holy isn't super great imo, but the first 20+ points are pretty good for healing. i don't think an SoL healing spec will have any room for any points in Prot. looking at the spec i really wish i had more points to spend in the first place. Toughness is definitely not worth going into prot for. Devo aura is nice, but no, it doesn't stack with tree aura. Blessing of Sanctuary is awesome, but hopefully prot pallies still exist to give this to whoever needs it.

cbadger wrote:

Sacred Duty +6% Stamina
combat Expertise 3/3 requires 35 points in protection and adds 6% cirtical strike and 6% stamina
Touched by the Light 3/3 requires 40 points - Increases your spell power by an amount equal to 30% of your Stamina and increases the amount healed by your critical heals by 30%.

i'm hoping you're just ponting out stuff that will help prot pallies off-heal better... cause you definitely don't want to go this deep in prot in order to heal.

cbadger wrote:

[ul]We've talked about Retribution in the past here but looking at the various possibilities

Healadin - 51/20/0 or 50/21/0 depends on if you think B(e)acon of light is worth it. 5 mans I can see it being very useful especially paired with glyph of holy light. For raids I think bacon of light will not be worth it unless you can gurantee the person you are healing will not be healed by someone else. So for raids it will only be useful if you are last healer standing or all the healers are paladins with same bacon of light target, otherwise I could see someone else with heal the target before your heal hits and the bacon is left with no corresponding heal since bacon of light is based on effective heal and overhealing doesn't do anything.

i personally wouldn't reccomend either of these for raiding at all. if you're going 50 points into holy, you might as well grab BoL. its all there is in deep holy to interest me.

cbadger wrote:

Critadin - 53/0/18, 48/5/18 max your crit chances with or without Kings. Basically max your critical strike with 5/5 conviction and 3/3 Sanctified seals.

53/0/18 would be my holy spec if i choose to spec a toon that way. again i don't think any healer would be taking kings unless forced to.

cbadger wrote:

Heal Battery - 37/0/34 or 38/0/33 or 35/0/36 Retribution down to 3/3 Judgements of the Wise may include Repentance or not, last one ignores holy shock to get instant flash of light. Your heals will hit for less but you should have no mana issues.

all 3 of these are definitely viable specs

cbadger wrote:

Ret Healer - 28/0/43, or 23/5/43 or 25/0/46 Main goal is 3/3 Sheath of Light for 30% of Attack power is spell damage also. But if you go this deep you might also want 3/3 Swift Retribution to further increase your retribution aura with 3% haste. for the 5 in Protection I would probably lean towards kings over divine strength but you could always go for both and do 15/10/46 to get illumination, kings, divine strength.

personally i think 28/0/43 is the best of these. i toyed with the haste, but ended up deciding crit would be better for a pally. we are so crit dependent that i can't justify 3% haste in place of 3% crit. definitely wouldn't go into prot with this type of spec...

just a final note i decided to play aroud with BoL spec vs SoL spec. i healed heroic Nexus and Violet Hold, both as 53/0/18. BoL was actully more fun than i thought it would be and we didn't wipe even when the Spriest accidentally pulled a group of mobs when noone was ready. it was a DK tankng and we had a DK, Ret and Spriest for dps, only the spriest couldn't take a hit. this might have been a factor. either way it was fun, and not hard to keep up on tank even during aoe. i just felt like it needed a longer duration.

#3 Oct 08 2008 at 10:29 AM Rating: Decent

Scholar

135 posts

Well the talents I was just pointing possibilities for healing. With the builds I know a friend's guild that has usually 5 paladins in their 25 man raids (Prot, Ret + 3 healers) will be looking at getting the max out of blessings and auras. That was why I was asking about the aura.

With there being only 4 blessings (Kings, Wisdom, Might and Sanctuary) and 3 main hopefully improved auras (retribution, devotion and concentration) I was also looking at ways to possibly have multiple builds for providing 2 paladins with each improved blessing and possibly each improved aura.

Otherwise the pointing out of healing talents in the protection tree was to point out things a tankadin would want as chances are they will be called to off heal whne the boss fight doesn't need as many tanks as the trash. Good tankadins should keep a healing set. With the change for spell power that set might also be their dps set when soloing.

You mentioned being in beta have you tried a SoL build for main healing in raid or 5 mans?

#4 Oct 08 2008 at 12:04 PM Rating: Good

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Sage

648 posts

as far as blessings go, noone will need more than 3 blessings, so essentially you will want 3 pallies in any group. tanks will want BoS, BoK and BoM. Healers and caster DPS will want BoK and BoW (and prolly BoS as 3rd blessing. Physical DPS mana users (Hunters, Ret Pallies, Enh Shamies) will want BoM, BoK and BoW. non mana DPS (DPS Warriors, Rogues and Cat Druids) will want BoM and BoK (probably BoS as 3rd). This Means you only need 3 Pallies.

Ret should grab BoK and give that to everyone.

Holy should grab Imp BoW and Imp Might (not hard to do) and give Imp BoW to healers and Caster DPS, and Imp BoM to Tanks, and Physical DPS.

Prot can give tanks, healers, casters, and non-mana DPS BoS and physical mana DPS non-improved BoW.

the only people by this method not getting an improved blessing is hunters, Ret Pallies and Enh Shamies. they all have reasonable mana regen and regular BoW should be adequate for them. If you don't have 3 Pallies you'll have to rearrange blessings a little, but if its prot you're missing, few will miss the buffs (except maybe the tanks). Missing a Ret pally will be toughest since neither prot nor holy have extra points to spend on Kings (maybe prot, but unlikely)

honestly, 1 holy and 1 ret can give all improved buffs needed excep BoS. if you're looking for a way to have 2 pallies give all improved aura's let me know when you find out how to give 2 auras from one pally... honestly, the Prot aura (Devotion) really is only good for tanks, and since pallies have the lowest mitigation in Beta atm, if you don't have a Prot Pally you'll be fine without Devo.

and in answer to trying SoL, no, not yet. i tried a few instances as BoL holy spec, and next time i get on Beta i'll try an SoL healing spec. i'll let you know how it goes when i do get to it.

#5 Oct 09 2008 at 6:38 AM Rating: Decent

Scholar

135 posts

Quote:

if you're looking for a way to have 2 pallies give all improved aura's let me know when you find out how to give 2 auras from one pally...

I meant depending on which paladins of the five paladins they had in raid you had better chance to get more then one of each improved blessing. ie the guild I was reffering to has 5 paladins. If only three showed ....

I could see the Ret healers wanting kings Might Wisdom and possibly Sanctuary. Sanctuary depending on if he's an off healer/dps IE only helping with healing when the excrement hits the rotary device. but otherwise yeah 3 paladins should be able to give most improved if not all blessings.

#6 Oct 10 2008 at 9:59 AM Rating: Decent

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Scholar

32 posts

I just have a rather simple question concerning some of the holy/ret and ret/holy builds. Is it reasonable to carry both a sword and board for healing and have a nice slow 2-hander in your bag if you decided to do some dps instead? I only ask because, I think if a pally was able to basically switch between healer and dps just by changing some of the equipment then it would make pallies a very interesting class. I'm currently specced holy (I was prot, but then my guild asked me to switch for raids) and I like both aspects of play, that being pve and pvp. Don't get me wrong I enjoy healing in BG's, but it would be fun to be able to do some damage to the opposing faction from time to time. I understand that you would have to change more than just your weapons/shield to become a viable dpser, but it was just a thought.

Edited, Oct 10th 2008 2:18pm by spliffua

#7 Oct 10 2008 at 10:25 AM Rating: Decent

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Scholar

456 posts

There is a glyph that makes Might also give spellpower. Pretty sure I'm going to be getting it to buff casters with a 3rd blessing, but havn't looked too close at the glyphs

#8 Oct 12 2008 at 6:52 AM Rating: Decent

Scholar

135 posts

I think that might one you are talking about was an earlier one. If you are deep enough into Retribution you can get Sheath of Light for a minimum 43 points in retribution and get 3/3 Sheath of Light. This will have 30% of your AP be spell power.

As far Glyphs go both of these sights have what may be complete lists of paladin glyphs.

http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?items=16.2
http://wotlkwiki.info/index.php/Inscription#tab=Paladin