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For a start have a care with this 'you' business because I rarely, if ever, downrate anyone, as I already stated. I am not interested in 'showing' you anything, either. The secret option C) is that your style of delivery is annoying to people, and a less aggressive and bellicose tone might be more succesful, but of course I'm no expert.
Yes;
now I might be annoyed, because it's been the described way since my first post. All I see is me getting downrated for a reason which isn't even correct. If I end up *losing* the discussion, feel free to downrate all my posts to oblivion, all of you. At the moment it feels more like there's a discussion and people choose sides by trying to bring me down as a person. I'm willing to compare it to racist Americans who don't listen to what Obama has to say but tell him to sod off anyway. A very good example is the post where Jiade says the following about me:
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Probably the four strongest pvp classes......... rofl Of COURSE pvp is balanced. hahaha" I've since then proved that 'argument' completely wrong since it is a completely invalid interpretation of my game experiences. But guess who'se rated up and guess who'se rate down?
I can somewhat understand this point of view - like has been said before, these boards are destined to be gloomy and it's easier to just 'accept' that your class sucks and throw mud at Blizzard rather than focussing on the good stuff (No, that isn't an accusation and I know not everybody's like that) - but that doesn't mean I agree.
As for the 'you' business; I'm not aiming my paintball gun at you specifically. Rather everybody who'se downrating me and claiming people are right in doing so. Speaking of paintball...
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My Risk edition has blue, black, green, yellow, red and orange troops, maybe more I dunno. I am open to the possibility that different colours of sh*tty plastic exist in other versions.
Most of my experience in Risk comes from a computergame version of it... the colors basically represented the players rather than troop strength. But never mind this, it's a pointless discussion.
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That is life my friend. Nothing, anywhere, ever is decided purely on skill alone, it is antithetical to the very foundations of nature. There is always a random factor, when people say 'skill' they generally mean stacking the odds in your favour rather than eliminating the odds altogether. Risk is entirely 'fair' AND balanced because all sides are the same and all sides play under the same ruleset, however chance-based. I cant imagine what contest could be decided by skill alone unless it was a math competition between robots in a sealed room at the end of the universe...
Unreal Tournament? A game like that has nothing to do with odds and everything with skill (avoiding incoming fire and accuracy).
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And yet can be defeated by Arcane Mages in a significant number of encounters. You essentially have a chip on your shoulder about Ret Paladins (who are being nerfed so I cant imagine why you're still annoyed) and are rotating your argument about that fulcrum.
Not really... You still seem to think my argument is "If a class can be beat by at least one other class it is completely balanced". It is in fact a bit more hazy, like "If a class can be beat by at least ~three or more classes it is pretty balanced". And even that's not entirely right; if a class had above equal chances against any other class but got completely obliterated by one, I'd also consider it 'fairly balanced'. A Retardin would fall in the category where he doesn't have "above equal chances" against any other class, but where he completely owns every other class and gets obliterated by just one.
Not sure what you mean with annoyed though, did I say I was annoyed with Retardins?
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This is where Im confused about your definitions, because there have existed far worse imbalances in the past than exist now with Ret Paladins (the oft-quoted Warlocks/WF Shamans/S2 Rogues) and yet you declare most of the game to have been ok but now Ret Paladins have somehow queered the milk. That's just emotionally-charged circular argument. When I play my Warlock against Ret Paladins now I can kill them about 20-30% of the time; 2yrs ago when I faced pre-nerf Windfury Shamans I would be dead every single time, I'd be dead before my Shadow school got unlocked from when they interrupted Fear.
Maybe I've just been in the wrong place, but I seriously never had problems with any of those classes, except perhaps Rogues. I throw them all into the file cabinet that says "Injust whineage about random classes", next to that period where it was 'common sense' that a priest needed a shadow spec to PvP while I was topping the charts in all the BG's with healing. For as far as they were extreme though, cases like those have always been resolved rather quickly.
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Rogues.... I've never been able to beat Rogues. Not on my Shaman or Warlock, and even the Paladin has trouble with their PvP spec. That's worse than the current situation.
The reason I don't think Rogues are worse than Retardins is because Retardins now own everything hands down. Most classes have plenty of escape abilities against rogues. They'd work against retardins, but with rets you generally just die before you can use any. There isn't much a rogue can actually 3 or 4-shot at the moment even while blowing all CD's. And once your CD's are gone a kited rogue turns into a sitting duck. Retardins just walk up to somebody and kill him, that's all there is to it.
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And it is to completely neglect the original point which is what does this spell for the future of Shamans; since even now you have conceded that Shamans are underpowered and Ret Paladins are grossly overpowered, it would seem that the notion of 'Fair and Balanced' applies about as much to Shaman PvP as it does to Fox News.
All fair, but all this started with Jiade laughing at me for claiming PvP has been fairly balanced since launch. No, that's not to say every class has a 100% equal chance against every other class, but it Ãs stating that it really hasn't been that bad, and it's also stating that thát is the reason I've got a good hope for Shamans being boosted.
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Again, Mozared's only difference of opinion with others is on where the lines are drawn, I don't see why there is so much venom floating around.
That's possibly the most meaningful sentence in this topic.