Messing with talent calculator :: Free Realms

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I was messing around with the talent calculator and saw that 23/11/37 you can have an sl/sl/sl build. Was wondering how Siphon Life, Soul Link, and Soul Leech would play together in either bgs, arena, or pve... of course it can only be obtained at lvl 80 and all responses would be based on theory. Still thought it was interesting

#2 Oct 06 2008 at 3:10 PM Rating: Decent

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Affliction (23 points)

2/2 Improved Curse of Agony
5/5 Improved Corruption
2/2 Improved Life Tap
2/2 Soul Siphon
2/2 Improved Fear
3/3 Fel Concentration
2/2 Grim Reach
2/2 Nightfall
2/3 Empowered Corruption
1/1 Siphon Life

Demonology (11 points)

2/2 Improved Healthstone
5/5 Demonic Embrace
3/3 Fel Vitality
1/1 Soul Link

Destruction (37 points)

5/5 Improved Shadow Bolt
5/5 Bane
2/2 Aftermath
3/3 Molten Core
1/1 Shadowburn
5/5 Ruin
2/2 Intensity
2/2 Destructive Reach
1/3 Improved Immolate
1/1 Devastation
3/3 Nether Protection
3/3 Soul Leech
2/3 Backlash
2/2 Improved Soul Leech

#3 Oct 06 2008 at 3:18 PM Rating: Decent

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interesting idea. could possibly work... here's my version of it:

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warlock=052300152032313013300000001050022231023011000000000000005203010000000000000000000

I decided to go without the range increases, not sure how important they're be tbh...

#4 Oct 06 2008 at 8:42 PM Rating: Decent

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I like it, I guess I've been putting too much emphasis on that range increase. It may not have too much impact. I have no idea what sl/sl/sl would be like. After some more time thinking about it, I doubt it would be better than taking the 41 or 51 point talents. Haunt, Chaos Bolt, and Metamorph all seem pretty good for pvp.

#5 Oct 07 2008 at 1:47 AM Rating: Decent

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they may be good but they all rely on 1 tactic to much. for haunt you're relying on drain life and the power of dots, demo you're relying on the ability to burst nuke with demon form and destro you sacrifice survivability to attempt to nuke hard and fast. the SL/SL/SL can dot people down and it can nuke as well as having 3 forms of slowing effects (improved fear, CoEx and aftermath). personally I'd definately give it a try.

#6 Oct 07 2008 at 5:57 AM Rating: Decent

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I might be talking out of my **** here, but it does seem pretty interesting.

37 points in destruction should ensure you've got quite a bit of nuke-DPS out there... On pretty much all classes/specs nuke damage has been thrown out of the PvP toybox due to the simple fact that you always have to sacrifice a lot of survivability and control for it. But this doesn't seem the case with warlocks. The only mobility you lack is perhaps imp Howl of Terror, but Aftermath, Pyroclasm, Nether Protection Ã¡nd Soul Leech in addition to Siphon Life and Soul Link should more than make up for it.

I suppose the warlock version of Theo will now come in to call us all idiots, but I wouldn't mind to see a hybrid oddball build do well in PvP for a change.

#7 Oct 07 2008 at 7:09 AM Rating: Decent

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http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=IbxMrur0kZbxczZVf0qrhuhsh

Here's another potential build.

Realistically, a 23/11/37 won't work well in PvP, because it's missing too much.

- Destruction has zero dispel resistance
- You're missing dispel resistance from affliction
- No Master Summoner/Fel Domination
- No Shadow Embrace

Though, I will say, Reach talents are *very* imporant in all aspects of PvP, because you can nuke/DoT from further away than at base range.

Realistically, a 23/11/37 build will also do terribly in PvE, because again, it's missing too much.

- You're missing more than half of the affliction tree
- No Shadow and Flame/ISB/Chaos Bolt
- Soul Link is useless for PvE

The big thing for me, though, when it comes to Destruction PvP is Shadowfury; it is that good, and even more so since it will be instant and not cost a GCD (and can be cast on the move). That, and Conflag is pretty key to any Destruction PvP build.

Edited, Oct 7th 2008 9:04am by wingsofscion

#8 Oct 07 2008 at 7:12 AM Rating: Default

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we'll just have to wait and see and try for ourselves. Personally I always try the spec for myself instead of listening to what all of you fine people have to say about after doing the research. Actually, I don't go with a spec because its better than another, I usually pick one that compliments my play style. I am proud to say I pvp full affliction at the moment.

#9 Oct 07 2008 at 8:07 AM Rating: Decent

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Quote:

Realistically, a 23/11/37 won't work well in PvP, because it's missing too much.

- Destruction has zero dispel resistance
- You're missing dispel resistance from affliction

That's basically the same point, but... Would it matter? I've always thought destruction did most of it's damage trough direct-damage spells like (mainly) Shadowbolt? You could alternate between Immolation, Conflagrate and Shadowbolts, am I right?

Quote:

- No Master Summoner/Fel Domination
- No Shadow Embrace

Shadow Embraces -healing effect would be a loss, but would you really need the extra DOT damage ticks if you're using direct damage spells? I wonder if the lack of Master Summoner and Shadow Embrace is survivable. I might be defending a worthless spec, but I do find it interesting... The way I see it, it somewhat turns you into an arcane or fire mage with hit points and armor equal to a sl/sl lock.

#10 Oct 07 2008 at 8:37 AM Rating: Decent

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Quote:

That's basically the same point, but... Would it matter? I've always thought destruction did most of it's damage trough direct-damage spells like (mainly) Shadowbolt? You could alternate between Immolation, Conflagrate and Shadowbolts, am I right?

Not quite the same thing. Affliction gets dispel resistance on affliction spells (fear, howl, corr, curses, ua, drains, sl, haunt, nightfall), but destruction doesn't get dispel resistance for anything (immolate, isb, molten core, backlash). Generally, as a destruction pvper, you're using immolate, incinerate, conflagrate, soul fire and shadowfury more often than shadow bolt (generally - the situations vary, but it's mostly a fire build).

Quote:

Shadow Embraces -healing effect would be a loss, but would you really need the extra DOT damage ticks if you're using direct damage spells? I wonder if the lack of Master Summoner and Shadow Embrace is survivable. I might be defending a worthless spec, but I do find it interesting... The way I see it, it somewhat turns you into an arcane or fire mage with hit points and armor equal to a sl/sl lock.

Affliction has little to no burst (Nightfall and Haunt being pretty much all there is, and requires shadow school to be open). Shadow Embrace became a lot more worthwhile for PvP (especially since HoTs > DoTs on live) with the HoT healing reduction, and missing out on it is very hurtful to any sort of affliction build. In truth, it is the closest thing warlocks will get to a MS debuff (which is fine - we don't need MS), and we'll probably see a big return of UA/SPriest in both 2's and 3's for at least Season 5, and UA locks will become a lot more wanted in 5's. The only problem with it is the unpredictability of Nightfall, and the cooldown of Haunt. It is a big deal, though, because it's not truly a nuke spec, but it's not truly a DoT spec, either. It seems like it might be okay for bgs, but just an expansion on Nightfall/Backlash that we have now.

What I will say, though, is just about anything is viable in battlegrounds (trust me - I do pretty damn well as 0/5/56 currently in bgs and heroics, but it blows for arena, and is far from raid viable). Though, a SL/SL/SL builds pretty much reeks of failure in both arenas and raids.

Edited, Oct 7th 2008 10:31am by wingsofscion

#11 Oct 07 2008 at 8:51 AM Rating: Decent

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I'll take your word for it from here then, I lack too much class knowledge to counter your arguments.

Still, I wonder what it'd play like.

#12 Oct 07 2008 at 5:36 PM Rating: Decent

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honestly, it's one of those wierd specs that I could see working. yeah it has no dispel reduction.. but neither does SL/SL currently and that's the main pvp spec for us. it has a much greater nuking ability than the current SL/SL and at a larger survivablity and CC rate. simply put it could be the "Sl/Sl mark.2" spec... though without proper testing we'll never know. yeah hots are powerful so shadow embrace is good, but even currently the SL/SL spec was never about out damaging the hots.. it was about draining mana and outlasting them. now that a SL/SL/SL spec is viable at lvl.80, it'll provide access to 'random' burst to increase the opposing teams mana usage, while still alowing for great survivability and the ability to drain mana/life at a good rate.

simply put, the options available from a SL/SL/SL spec are so wide that you can't slander it on first looks. it needs to be first hand tested before you can make any real opinions on how bad it is as purely from the looks of it, it's a massive upgrade to the current primary pvp spec.

#13 Oct 08 2008 at 2:07 AM Rating: Decent

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SL/SL wasn't about doing damage though; it was about outlasting. That's the key difference between SL/SL and either DoT or Nuke specs; they're for damage, SL/SL is not.

Right now, UA dots don't outdamage hots, but hots are currently retardedly imbalanced, as well (but can't be rebalanced for pvp without ******** up pve), hence we get the new addition to shadow embrace with hot reduction (which will, hopefully, help loads).

The reason SL/SL doesn't get dispel resistance is because Soul Link is a 31-point talent, and Contagion is 35 points' worth of talents - and thus, mutually exclusive. The reason SL/SL is so predominant is because it gives greater survivability with a tradeoff of damage. But going for a DPS spec of any kind (save Felguard) leaves one wide open to the melee train far more than warlocks already are in arena as SL/SL.

I'm not slandering it on first looks; I'm pointing out all the reasons SLx3 can't work. Destruction as a whole doesn't work well because of lack of dispel resistance in addition to a severe lack of mobility. If you want some form of SL/SL, it can be achieved even with going all the way to Haunt, or possibly a 49/11/11 build. If you go Destruction, Shadowfury by itself is too useful to pass up (not to mention SnF), especially now that you can also pick up Soul Link with it. Chaos Bolt may prove to be lackluster in arenas, but there's no telling for sure.

All in all, SL/SL/SL will still not be a raid viable spec, in any way, shape or form. That much you can't deny.

#14 Oct 08 2008 at 2:52 AM Rating: Decent

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I never said SL/SL was about damage, I said exactly what you said. BUT I am saying that if you could add a nuking opportunity to it, in my opinion, it'd make the spec var more versitile and deadly than it currently is. also the main benefits from destro in this spec is the daze and backlash procs. the soul leach is just an added bonus in terms of a little bit extra healing. in terms of lacking mobility, most your destruction spells will be instant cast except for when you get the chance to be at range. instant SB/incinerates and shadowflame > conflag bursts (shadowflame is getting a 75% damage increase, so it'll no longer suck). and then for when at range you'll use searing pain, mixed in with the glyph for it and talented crit chance and you've effectively just negated all the resiliance someone has.