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Controlling aggro as an enhancement shaman?Follow
9 posts
I'm new to the shaman class and I love the enhancement spec! However, it's so different from every other class I've played, I've had a lot of questions. I've found the answer to most, but I can't seem to find anything about controlling your own aggro during a group. DPSers that constantly steal aggro are the bane of my priest's existance. I don't want to be one of those people. I have not yet done a 5 man with my shaman, I don't even know how much of an issue it will be, but I would like to be prepared, rather than consternate my group. So are there any tricks I can do to keep off the aggro? I did read somewhere not to use frostshock, but other than that I didn't find anything. Also, is it acceptable to throw down a Stoneclaw totem, or will that just annoy the tank?
Scholar
49 posts
I've had the same problem with my main (70 hunter). When in a group with a tank who can not hold aggro (our lvl 70 warrior guild leader, no less) I have run into a problem of occasionally stealing aggro. Everything I've read is use omen threat meter. I installed it last night just before I logged off, so haven't tried it yet. That way though, If you see that you are climbing the aggro chart, you can back off to give the tank time to re-establish.
I'd suggest downloading a threat meter of some type, like Omen. It'll help you see whether or not you're going to pull aggro off of the tank (if they have omen too, of course). If you think you're going to pull off, just stop attacking, and allow the tank to generate more threat. That's pretty much the gist of it.
As for stoneclaw, never drop it in a group (unless it's a last resort and you're running away... i.e. the tank dies). But even then, it'd probably be best to drop earthbind to run away.
Depending on the group makeup determines what totems to drop. If I have a melee heavy group, I'll either drop GoA or Windfury (once again, it depends). WoA for ranged and casters.
Personally, if I'm in the group with the tank, I like to drop Strength of Earth. Perhaps that's just me though.
Edit: To Seminewb, hunters have a much easier way to aggro dump... Feign Death. Unfortunately, unlike hunters, or rogues with Feint, shammies really don't have anything to instantly drop aggro.
Edited, Sep 23rd 2008 9:01am by xNocturnalSunx
As for stoneclaw, never drop it in a group (unless it's a last resort and you're running away... i.e. the tank dies). But even then, it'd probably be best to drop earthbind to run away.
Depending on the group makeup determines what totems to drop. If I have a melee heavy group, I'll either drop GoA or Windfury (once again, it depends). WoA for ranged and casters.
Personally, if I'm in the group with the tank, I like to drop Strength of Earth. Perhaps that's just me though.
Edit: To Seminewb, hunters have a much easier way to aggro dump... Feign Death. Unfortunately, unlike hunters, or rogues with Feint, shammies really don't have anything to instantly drop aggro.
Edited, Sep 23rd 2008 9:01am by xNocturnalSunx
As a shaman you are bound to take aggro occasionally. If you have a really bad problem with managing it you could look into the aggro reducing trinkets/items in game.
For example:
Trinket: Hypnotist's Watch, from a quest
Trinket: Jewel of Charismatic Mystique from shadow labs
Trinket: Timelapse Shard, Exalted with Keepers of time
Cape: Muck-Covered Drape, Honored rep with sporeggar
Im not saying equip all of them, but possibly one may save your butt if you need to decrease aggro in a hurry. Quite personally I would pick up timelapse shard since the Cooldown is only 2 mins, and make a macro to use it everytime the cooldown is up. Or just make an oh **** button for when you accidentally pull aggro.
Personally take a look at your gear, see which item is easily replaceable for the PVE encounters where you really shouldnt be pulling aggro or it might be instant death and equip one.
Also it doesnt hurt to get a Subtlety enchant on your cloak.
Good luck!
Edited, Sep 23rd 2008 9:55am by lauisifer
For example:
Trinket: Hypnotist's Watch, from a quest
Trinket: Jewel of Charismatic Mystique from shadow labs
Trinket: Timelapse Shard, Exalted with Keepers of time
Cape: Muck-Covered Drape, Honored rep with sporeggar
Im not saying equip all of them, but possibly one may save your butt if you need to decrease aggro in a hurry. Quite personally I would pick up timelapse shard since the Cooldown is only 2 mins, and make a macro to use it everytime the cooldown is up. Or just make an oh **** button for when you accidentally pull aggro.
Personally take a look at your gear, see which item is easily replaceable for the PVE encounters where you really shouldnt be pulling aggro or it might be instant death and equip one.
Also it doesnt hurt to get a Subtlety enchant on your cloak.
Good luck!
Edited, Sep 23rd 2008 9:55am by lauisifer
9 posts
Thanks for the advice guys! I will certainly check out Omen.
Seminewb- I also have a 70 hunter. Fiegn Death is great! Another thing I have noticed is to never never use aimed shot in an instance, because if it crits (and it usually does for me) it does mass amounts of damage, and the mob immediatly aggros to you.
Seminewb- I also have a 70 hunter. Fiegn Death is great! Another thing I have noticed is to never never use aimed shot in an instance, because if it crits (and it usually does for me) it does mass amounts of damage, and the mob immediatly aggros to you.
Also, remember to run to the tank if you get aggro...running away will not help you or the tank.
As others have said, get a threat meter and use it first off. Also, just use common sense when engaging guys. /assist the tank so you're attacking his/her main target after 5 secs or so of letting aggro build. If you have a paladin in group, your first blessing should (almost) always be salvation. If you're still pulling, drop shocks from your rotation first, and as you mentioned, never use frost shock. If that doesn't work, drop stormstrike next. If you still pull with only autoattack and WF procs, get a new tank.
There are so many things what you can do to avoid getting agro as enhance shaman. Well, so many and so many but still. It really depends what levels are you playing now. If you're in 40-50 for example you are doing a lot of dps (depending on your gear) and you need to let tank get more agro before starting.
You should NEVER use frost shock in instances unless you really know why you do it. I have used it sometimes as healer in heroics when I see hunter failing to trap mob and is 3sec away from dying. I can pull mob from him if I know that tank will get it before it gets to me. Never use it in your DPS rotation.
edit- Well it's perhaps better to do that in nonheroic, but still I have more armor and shield than hunter there (10.5k armor now)
Your WF will cause some spike dmg and that you can't avoid. If tank has lower gear (or perhaps offspecc) try giving him totem to get more agro, Wf totem for warrior, Woa for pala (for pala I drop Woa, str, flame tongue if possible)so that it'll boost whole partys dps on mobs through higher TPS on tank.
First few pulls let tank build longer agro so you have some idea how long s/he needs before you shall start. Few sunders should be marks for you (in some cases) so that you can start. Don't hit storm strike as soon as you engage but wait few autoshots and then SS-> flame shock -> Earth shock -> SS and so on.
If you see that you're getting closer to tank in omen (I sure hope s/he has one) drop Es 1st since it's more spike and if needed drop Fs also. In lower levels DPS normally starts to nuke too early cos they just want to top DPS meters. Those are the same people who have DPS meter but no threat meter.
Just remember to always melee from behind the mob. You'll help healer a lot doing so.
Edited, Sep 23rd 2008 4:33pm by Causa
You should NEVER use frost shock in instances unless you really know why you do it. I have used it sometimes as healer in heroics when I see hunter failing to trap mob and is 3sec away from dying. I can pull mob from him if I know that tank will get it before it gets to me. Never use it in your DPS rotation.
edit- Well it's perhaps better to do that in nonheroic, but still I have more armor and shield than hunter there (10.5k armor now)
Your WF will cause some spike dmg and that you can't avoid. If tank has lower gear (or perhaps offspecc) try giving him totem to get more agro, Wf totem for warrior, Woa for pala (for pala I drop Woa, str, flame tongue if possible)so that it'll boost whole partys dps on mobs through higher TPS on tank.
First few pulls let tank build longer agro so you have some idea how long s/he needs before you shall start. Few sunders should be marks for you (in some cases) so that you can start. Don't hit storm strike as soon as you engage but wait few autoshots and then SS-> flame shock -> Earth shock -> SS and so on.
If you see that you're getting closer to tank in omen (I sure hope s/he has one) drop Es 1st since it's more spike and if needed drop Fs also. In lower levels DPS normally starts to nuke too early cos they just want to top DPS meters. Those are the same people who have DPS meter but no threat meter.
Just remember to always melee from behind the mob. You'll help healer a lot doing so.
Edited, Sep 23rd 2008 4:33pm by Causa
9 posts
"Also, remember to run to the tank if you get aggro...running away will not help you or the tank."
Thankfully I'm not quite that clueless. Almost maybe ;)
Thanks again to everyone for the advice!
Thankfully I'm not quite that clueless. Almost maybe ;)
Thanks again to everyone for the advice!
Chlore wrote:
"Also, remember to run to the tank if you get aggro...running away will not help you or the tank."
Thankfully I'm not quite that clueless. Almost maybe ;)
Thanks again to everyone for the advice!
Thankfully I'm not quite that clueless. Almost maybe ;)
Thanks again to everyone for the advice!
Unfortunately there are many people out there that are =(. Seriously, how do people expect the tank to take a mob off of you if you're running the other direction?
People... they're stupid.
=)
What? Enh Shaman generate threat? Never!
Seriously, what everybody else here has said is true.
Basically, if you follow these guidlines, you'll be fine:
1) Install a threat meter. My guild uses Omen, and it works for us.
2) Frostshock creates a lot of threat, so don't use it. The only exeption being if you're trying to get aggro off of the healer... I'd rather the mob hit me than get the healer. And hopefully the tank can taunt it off of me. If nothing else, it'll slow the mob down so it'll take longer to get to the healer.
3) Run TOWARDS the tank if you get aggro. Never away. Although, you should be standing behind the mob being tanked anyways.
4) If you do get aggro... Stop attacking until the tank can get aggro back. Do nothing but stand there and take it in the face, unless you need to interrupt a spell with Earth Shock. Other than that, the only aggro dump you have is using an ankh.
5) Above all else, let the tank establish threat before you engage. If I'm in the tank's group, I'll give him WF (for warrior), Grace of Air (Druid), or Wrath of Air (Pally). If the tank doesn't need the extra threat generation, use whatever is appropriate for the fight.
Other than that... Just relax and have fun pwning!
Seriously, what everybody else here has said is true.
Basically, if you follow these guidlines, you'll be fine:
1) Install a threat meter. My guild uses Omen, and it works for us.
2) Frostshock creates a lot of threat, so don't use it. The only exeption being if you're trying to get aggro off of the healer... I'd rather the mob hit me than get the healer. And hopefully the tank can taunt it off of me. If nothing else, it'll slow the mob down so it'll take longer to get to the healer.
3) Run TOWARDS the tank if you get aggro. Never away. Although, you should be standing behind the mob being tanked anyways.
4) If you do get aggro... Stop attacking until the tank can get aggro back. Do nothing but stand there and take it in the face, unless you need to interrupt a spell with Earth Shock. Other than that, the only aggro dump you have is using an ankh.
5) Above all else, let the tank establish threat before you engage. If I'm in the tank's group, I'll give him WF (for warrior), Grace of Air (Druid), or Wrath of Air (Pally). If the tank doesn't need the extra threat generation, use whatever is appropriate for the fight.
Other than that... Just relax and have fun pwning!
Other than the conventional methods of threat management mentioned, I have a few more that may help further.
You have heard of spell downranking, you can do the same for your weapons. For example - make a macro to /equip daggers instead to keep up unleashed rage for your group. The faster attack speed of the daggers will lower your WF dmg but the idea here is not personal dps but buffing the group's dps.
Personally, I already used up alot of inventory carrying my resto, elem and enhc set. I ain't gonna use up more space with another pair of daggers, so I just cut my stormstrike > flameshock > earthshock rotation and just autoattack when I'm about to out threat the tank.
You have heard of spell downranking, you can do the same for your weapons. For example - make a macro to /equip daggers instead to keep up unleashed rage for your group. The faster attack speed of the daggers will lower your WF dmg but the idea here is not personal dps but buffing the group's dps.
Personally, I already used up alot of inventory carrying my resto, elem and enhc set. I ain't gonna use up more space with another pair of daggers, so I just cut my stormstrike > flameshock > earthshock rotation and just autoattack when I'm about to out threat the tank.
Quote:
I've had the same problem with my main (70 hunter). When in a group with a tank who can not hold aggro (our lvl 70 warrior guild leader, no less) I have run into a problem of occasionally stealing aggro. Everything I've read is use omen threat meter. I installed it last night just before I logged off, so haven't tried it yet. That way though, If you see that you are climbing the aggro chart, you can back off to give the tank time to re-establish.
EL OH EL
L2Feign Death
Aggro should ALMOST NEVER be an issue for a hunter. Ever. Shamans on live do not have an aggro dump aside from death/reincarnate. You'll have Wind Shock come 3.0 which gives a threat reduction (though it's rather small but over the course of a fight can add up). For end-game it won't be an issue, but for PUGs I can see it having uses.
Edited, Oct 3rd 2008 12:51am by Jiade
Enhancement shamans are aggro machines. No aggro dump, completely random burst that is higher than anyone else in the game. You're gonna pull aggro.
A couple of hints (omen, no frost shock are absolutely correct, but in addition):
Don't open with stormstrike. Let the tank get aggro. Then maybe take a couple of autoattacks. THEN you can stormstrike. Nothing like an opening double wf proc to make life complicated.
Also, flame shock, at least until the tank has a huge lead on threat. Since it's a dot it won't build aggro like an earth shock. And remember, your passive 30% threat reducer from talents only applies to melee, not your shocks. So be sparing with those shocks and only use earth shock if the tank has the mob firmly upon him/her.
A couple of hints (omen, no frost shock are absolutely correct, but in addition):
Don't open with stormstrike. Let the tank get aggro. Then maybe take a couple of autoattacks. THEN you can stormstrike. Nothing like an opening double wf proc to make life complicated.
Also, flame shock, at least until the tank has a huge lead on threat. Since it's a dot it won't build aggro like an earth shock. And remember, your passive 30% threat reducer from talents only applies to melee, not your shocks. So be sparing with those shocks and only use earth shock if the tank has the mob firmly upon him/her.
When I'm in situations where it takes the tank some time to build up threat, I do a few things to avoid getting aggro.
1. When the tank begins his pulls, I start to lay down totems. The time it takes to do this is usually sufficient enough for the tank to get aggro.
2. I open with flame shock. Not that much threat, does some damage, and gives the tank more time to grab aggro (hopefully on multiple targets).
3. Certainly get a Blessing of Salvation from a pally if you have one in your group.
4. If you find that doing steps one and two aren't giving you enough time, start with auto attacks instead of immediately doing storm strike.
Those thins seem to work for me. Good luck.
1. When the tank begins his pulls, I start to lay down totems. The time it takes to do this is usually sufficient enough for the tank to get aggro.
2. I open with flame shock. Not that much threat, does some damage, and gives the tank more time to grab aggro (hopefully on multiple targets).
3. Certainly get a Blessing of Salvation from a pally if you have one in your group.
4. If you find that doing steps one and two aren't giving you enough time, start with auto attacks instead of immediately doing storm strike.
Those thins seem to work for me. Good luck.
Scholar
49 posts
I've only been running with groups about two months. Feign death is now one of my best friends.
Quoting Kellindross,
I'm a new Shammy and just ran BRD last night with a good group about my lvl. I think it was the first time I really noticed I didn't want agro and was pulling it off a well geared Prot Pally.
Omen. It's popular, and in my pug last night 4 out of 5 of us had it.
Watch your meter, it also lets of a loud sound and flashes the screen when you get to 90% of tanks agro (which I lowered to 75% to give me more time to react).
Step 1 is the best. I couldn't believe how nice it was to not feel rushed into dropping tots. Better placement for the mana regen so that our priest was almost always full, and still in range for the pally. Better for the next pull (didn't have to redrop! pally really worked with that one... saves mana), and it gave me a chance to see how the rest of the group reacted to the pull (we had one of those damage jocks that had to be on the top of the list... and cause us to wipe 3 times). Yeah, it almost sounds lazy, but in truth it's 3 gc's (what like 5 or 6 sec?) and then I came in pounding (love this toon) when the agro meter said WHOA, check the target heath. Can you finish it quickly? Keep going!!! No? Hit escape (hahahaha!) I actually sat down in the middle of the boss fight once to let the pally get more agro! You of course come back in with everything you got (as all your cd's are up)! I placed third on the damage meter (and got an open invite from the pally and priest!!) learning that although it's cool to put out the most dps, people would rather you just play your toon well.
I didn't know about the trinkets and such...as I said, I'm still new to Shammys but, those are cool!
PS, I have a Holy priest too...... yeah....
Quote:
1. When the tank begins his pulls, I start to lay down totems. The time it takes to do this is usually sufficient enough for the tank to get aggro.
2. I open with flame shock. Not that much threat, does some damage, and gives the tank more time to grab aggro (hopefully on multiple targets).
3. Certainly get a Blessing of Salvation from a pally if you have one in your group.
4. If you find that doing steps one and two aren't giving you enough time, start with auto attacks instead of immediately doing storm strike.
2. I open with flame shock. Not that much threat, does some damage, and gives the tank more time to grab aggro (hopefully on multiple targets).
3. Certainly get a Blessing of Salvation from a pally if you have one in your group.
4. If you find that doing steps one and two aren't giving you enough time, start with auto attacks instead of immediately doing storm strike.
I'm a new Shammy and just ran BRD last night with a good group about my lvl. I think it was the first time I really noticed I didn't want agro and was pulling it off a well geared Prot Pally.
Omen. It's popular, and in my pug last night 4 out of 5 of us had it.
Watch your meter, it also lets of a loud sound and flashes the screen when you get to 90% of tanks agro (which I lowered to 75% to give me more time to react).
Step 1 is the best. I couldn't believe how nice it was to not feel rushed into dropping tots. Better placement for the mana regen so that our priest was almost always full, and still in range for the pally. Better for the next pull (didn't have to redrop! pally really worked with that one... saves mana), and it gave me a chance to see how the rest of the group reacted to the pull (we had one of those damage jocks that had to be on the top of the list... and cause us to wipe 3 times). Yeah, it almost sounds lazy, but in truth it's 3 gc's (what like 5 or 6 sec?) and then I came in pounding (love this toon) when the agro meter said WHOA, check the target heath. Can you finish it quickly? Keep going!!! No? Hit escape (hahahaha!) I actually sat down in the middle of the boss fight once to let the pally get more agro! You of course come back in with everything you got (as all your cd's are up)! I placed third on the damage meter (and got an open invite from the pally and priest!!) learning that although it's cool to put out the most dps, people would rather you just play your toon well.
I didn't know about the trinkets and such...as I said, I'm still new to Shammys but, those are cool!
PS, I have a Holy priest too...
Quote:
DPSers that constantly steal aggro are the bane of my priest's existance.
My shaman is 61 now. Did Ramps last night. I had aggro a lot. Finally I just tanked the dogs in there and let the tank handle something else. I love windfury, but when it crits, get ready for some hate. lol.
Since I usually run solo on this toon, I'll take the no shock rule to heart. I discovered in here, that the mobs drag u all over the place and we never were in range of the totems the whole fight. Has anybody else had that problem?
Since I usually run solo on this toon, I'll take the no shock rule to heart. I discovered in here, that the mobs drag u all over the place and we never were in range of the totems the whole fight. Has anybody else had that problem?
Quote:
I discovered in here, that the mobs drag u all over the place and we never were in range of the totems the whole fight. Has anybody else had that problem?
Yes. Don't be afriad to use totem recall and drop some new totems. The basic tot's like str, agi, and mana spring can be dropped several times before you need to start worrying about mana.
Try this too... instead of str drop earthbind to keep the mobs next to the other tot's.
edit : quote shananagins
Edited, Oct 9th 2008 12:02pm by downandgoing
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