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#1 Sep 20 2008 at 6:49 PM Rating: Decent
http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=5963296720&postId=59624701985&sid=1#1

The lowdown wrote:

Instant Poison VII
Classes: Rogue
Requires Level 68
Use: Coats a weapon with poison that lasts for 1 hour.
Each strike has a 20% chance of poisoning the enemy which instantly inflicts [161 + 0.10 * AP] Nature damage.

This is currently how Instant poison is looking on PTR. It has 20% chance to do 161 damage + 10% of my AP, say 300 extra in a raid. Roughly every 5th attack will procc an instant untalented (counting combat speccs).

Wound Poison V
Classes: Rogue
Requires Level 64
Use: Coats a weapon with poison that lasts for 1 hour.
Each strike has a 50% chance of poisoning the enemy, causing [112 + 0.04 * AP] Nature damage and reducing all healing effects used on them by 50% for 15 sec.

This is the level 64 rank of wound. It has 50% chance to procc 112 + 4%, say 120 extra in a raid.
Every other attack will procc wound poison.

Counting combat, the only poison talent that we will possible get our hands on is Vile Poison. It affects both, so I won't enter it here.

But straight up, counting every 100 attacks.
20 attacks of 100 will procc instant poison of 460~ damage each = 9200.

50 attacks of 100 will land Wound Poison of 230~ damage each = 11500 damage.

These are very round numbers, but answer us this Mr.Shoehead (that made the last 2 PTR-patches), are wound poison really meant to out-damage instant and deadly poison?


I double checked the math and it's sound. Interesting thing to keep in mind just in case you don't spec mutilate.


#2 Sep 20 2008 at 7:17 PM Rating: Decent
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13,048 posts
Kavekk wrote:
http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=5963296720&postId=59624701985&sid=1#1

The lowdown wrote:

Instant Poison VII
Classes: Rogue
Requires Level 68
Use: Coats a weapon with poison that lasts for 1 hour.
Each strike has a 20% chance of poisoning the enemy which instantly inflicts [161 + 0.10 * AP] Nature damage.

This is currently how Instant poison is looking on PTR. It has 20% chance to do 161 damage + 10% of my AP, say 300 extra in a raid. Roughly every 5th attack will procc an instant untalented (counting combat speccs).

Wound Poison V
Classes: Rogue
Requires Level 64
Use: Coats a weapon with poison that lasts for 1 hour.
Each strike has a 50% chance of poisoning the enemy, causing [112 + 0.04 * AP] Nature damage and reducing all healing effects used on them by 50% for 15 sec.

This is the level 64 rank of wound. It has 50% chance to procc 112 + 4%, say 120 extra in a raid.
Every other attack will procc wound poison.

Counting combat, the only poison talent that we will possible get our hands on is Vile Poison. It affects both, so I won't enter it here.

But straight up, counting every 100 attacks.
20 attacks of 100 will procc instant poison of 460~ damage each = 9200.

50 attacks of 100 will land Wound Poison of 230~ damage each = 11500 damage.

These are very round numbers, but answer us this Mr.Shoehead (that made the last 2 PTR-patches), are wound poison really meant to out-damage instant and deadly poison?


I double checked the math and it's sound. Interesting thing to keep in mind just in case you don't spec mutilate.

It's interesting to be sure, but I'm guessing that Blizzard will look at it in the next two months.
#3 Sep 21 2008 at 7:03 AM Rating: Default
This is a proof of the huge mess that is in their heads atm.
#4 Sep 21 2008 at 4:30 PM Rating: Decent
I'm missing something here, wound poison only has 30% chance to proc, 40 when spec'd. Not 50%
#5 Sep 21 2008 at 4:32 PM Rating: Decent
It got buffed on ptr when they took wound off imp poison.
#6 Sep 22 2008 at 7:06 AM Rating: Decent
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1,594 posts
Precision increases the proc chance of poisons by 5%, which makes it closer, but Wound is still leading over Instant?

But still, isn't Deadly poison far better than either of them?

Edited, Sep 22nd 2008 11:01am by Ehcks
#7 Sep 22 2008 at 7:25 AM Rating: Decent
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13,048 posts
Ehcks wrote:
Precision increases the proc chance of poisons by 5%, which makes it closer, but Wound is still leading over Instant?

But still, isn't Deadly poison far better than either of them?

Edited, Sep 22nd 2008 11:01am by Ehcks

Precision affects both of them, so it doesn't change anything.

And you're not going to go DP/DP ever.
#8 Sep 22 2008 at 8:29 AM Rating: Decent
Overlord Theophany wrote:
Ehcks wrote:
Precision increases the proc chance of poisons by 5%, which makes it closer, but Wound is still leading over Instant?

But still, isn't Deadly poison far better than either of them?

Edited, Sep 22nd 2008 11:01am by Ehcks

Precision affects both of them, so it doesn't change anything.

And you're not going to go DP/DP ever.


Actually, it makes them much closer - 5 x 460 is more than 5 x 230. With precision there's only 1150 damage difference (in WP's favour).
#9 Sep 22 2008 at 8:34 AM Rating: Good
Overlord Theophany wrote:
Ehcks wrote:
Precision increases the proc chance of poisons by 5%, which makes it closer, but Wound is still leading over Instant?

But still, isn't Deadly poison far better than either of them?

Edited, Sep 22nd 2008 11:01am by Ehcks

Precision affects both of them, so it doesn't change anything.

And you're not going to go DP/DP ever.


Bad math is bad.

If Proc X has a 10% chance to proc and do 100 damage, and Proc Y has a 50% chance to proc and do 20 damage, and then you add 10% chance to proc to both which one works out better? (Hint: One of them ends up quite a bit better.)

"Effects both of them" is a meaningless distinction. A flat, rather than a scalar, increase in the chance for an effect to proc favors low probabilty but high reward effects rather than high probability but low reward.
#10 Sep 22 2008 at 10:08 AM Rating: Decent
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13,048 posts
RPZip wrote:
Overlord Theophany wrote:
Ehcks wrote:
Precision increases the proc chance of poisons by 5%, which makes it closer, but Wound is still leading over Instant?

But still, isn't Deadly poison far better than either of them?

Edited, Sep 22nd 2008 11:01am by Ehcks

Precision affects both of them, so it doesn't change anything.

And you're not going to go DP/DP ever.


Bad math is bad.

If Proc X has a 10% chance to proc and do 100 damage, and Proc Y has a 50% chance to proc and do 20 damage, and then you add 10% chance to proc to both which one works out better? (Hint: One of them ends up quite a bit better.)

"Effects both of them" is a meaningless distinction. A flat, rather than a scalar, increase in the chance for an effect to proc favors low probabilty but high reward effects rather than high probability but low reward.

Yeah except that in this case it doesn't matter.

Wound still does more damage.

And it's "affects" btw.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/effects

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/affects
#11 Sep 22 2008 at 10:22 AM Rating: Good
Overlord Theophany wrote:
RPZip wrote:
Overlord Theophany wrote:
Ehcks wrote:
Precision increases the proc chance of poisons by 5%, which makes it closer, but Wound is still leading over Instant?

But still, isn't Deadly poison far better than either of them?

Edited, Sep 22nd 2008 11:01am by Ehcks

Precision affects both of them, so it doesn't change anything.

And you're not going to go DP/DP ever.


Bad math is bad.

If Proc X has a 10% chance to proc and do 100 damage, and Proc Y has a 50% chance to proc and do 20 damage, and then you add 10% chance to proc to both which one works out better? (Hint: One of them ends up quite a bit better.)

"Effects both of them" is a meaningless distinction. A flat, rather than a scalar, increase in the chance for an effect to proc favors low probabilty but high reward effects rather than high probability but low reward.

Yeah except that in this case it doesn't matter.

Wound still does more damage.


Probably, but just because it effects both of them isn't a reason to not run the math again. It's a significant change, and has will make the results closer even if one is still superior.

Quote:
And it's "affects" btw.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/effects

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/affects


The power to produce an outcome or achieve a result; influence: The drug had an immediate effect on the pain. The government's action had no effect on the trade imbalance.

I used a sentence fragment. If you'd like to quibble about that, fine, but it works in the context.
#12 Sep 22 2008 at 10:29 AM Rating: Decent
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19,369 posts
RPZip wrote:

Probably, but just because it affects both of them isn't a reason to not run the math again. It's a significant change, and has will make the results closer even if one is still superior.

Quote:
And it's "affects" btw.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/effects

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/affects


The power to produce an outcome or achieve a result; influence: The drug had an immediate effect on the pain. The government's action had no effect on the trade imbalance.

I used a sentence fragment. If you'd like to quibble about that, fine, but it works in the context.


#13 Sep 22 2008 at 10:31 AM Rating: Decent
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19,369 posts
Quote:
When you affect something, you have an effect on it.


Smiley: schooled
#14 Sep 22 2008 at 10:34 AM Rating: Good
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2,550 posts
What is this thread turning into...first math...than grammar?

Its almost like...I'm in school...NOOOOOOOO!

On topic, I doubt this will remain, it doesn't make too much sense since IP's only purpose is damage. Although those lacking Math out there would undoubtedly still use IP if this went live.

Edited, Sep 22nd 2008 2:29pm by GodOfMoo
#15 Sep 22 2008 at 10:39 AM Rating: Good
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1,096 posts
RP, just wanted to let you know that I often find myself strolling through the halls of The Pentagon humming that damned boom de yada song from your avatar.





Thanks alot.
#16 Sep 22 2008 at 10:40 AM Rating: Decent
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13,048 posts
RPZip wrote:
Overlord Theophany wrote:
RPZip wrote:
Overlord Theophany wrote:
Ehcks wrote:
Precision increases the proc chance of poisons by 5%, which makes it closer, but Wound is still leading over Instant?

But still, isn't Deadly poison far better than either of them?

Edited, Sep 22nd 2008 11:01am by Ehcks

Precision affects both of them, so it doesn't change anything.

And you're not going to go DP/DP ever.


Bad math is bad.

If Proc X has a 10% chance to proc and do 100 damage, and Proc Y has a 50% chance to proc and do 20 damage, and then you add 10% chance to proc to both which one works out better? (Hint: One of them ends up quite a bit better.)

"Effects both of them" is a meaningless distinction. A flat, rather than a scalar, increase in the chance for an effect to proc favors low probabilty but high reward effects rather than high probability but low reward.

Yeah except that in this case it doesn't matter.

Wound still does more damage.


Probably, but just because it effects both of them isn't a reason to not run the math again. It's a significant change, and has will make the results closer even if one is still superior.

I'm still not even sure that Precision increases proc rates. Ideally it would, but I think since it's treated as spell hit, it just works on potential resists.

Which is nice, but pretty lackluster.

Edit: just checked on beta, and yeah, it's working like spell hit, not like Imp Poisons. Smiley: lol

Nice, but at the same time a whole lot less worthwhile than we were thinking.

Edited, Sep 22nd 2008 11:35am by Theophany
#17 Sep 22 2008 at 10:49 AM Rating: Good
MentalFrog wrote:
Quote:
When you affect something, you have an effect on it.


Smiley: schooled


I just noticed I used "has will" in the post as well. Writing these posts in class though since this lecture couldn't possibly be any more boring, so there'll be a few poor edits.

Quote:

I'm still not even sure that Precision increases proc rates. Ideally it would, but I think since it's treated as spell hit, it just works on potential resists.

Which is nice, but pretty lackluster.

Edit: just checked on beta, and yeah, it's working like spell hit, not like Imp Poisons. Smiley: lol

Nice, but at the same time a whole lot less worthwhile than we were thinking.


Yeah, so that's nice but not exactly what we were discussing. Oh well.

Quote:
RP, just wanted to let you know that I often find myself strolling through the halls of The Pentagon humming that damned boom de yada song from your avatar.





Thanks alot.


Astronaut 1: It never gets old, huh?
Astronaut 2: Nope.
Astronaut 1: It kinda makes you want to...
Astronaut 2: Break into song?
Astronaut 1: Yep.

I love the mountains,
I love the clear blue skies
I love big bridges
I love when great whites fly
I love the whole world
And all its sights and sounds
Boom-de-yadda, boom-de-yadda (twice)

I love the oceans
I love real dirty things
I love to go fast
I love Egyptian kings
I love the whole world
And all its craziness
Boom-de-yadda, boom-de-yadda (twice)

I love tornadoes
I love arachnids
I love hot magma
I love the giant squids
I love the whole world
It's such a brilliant place
Boom-de-yadda, boom-de-yadda (three)
#18 Sep 22 2008 at 2:38 PM Rating: Decent
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134 posts
Is the start post in reference to the highest ranks of each of these poisons, meaning at no time from lvl 68 - 80 will we learn a new IP or WP? I am just thinking maybe IP will increase in damage more than WP over the increase in ranks and eventually at lvl 80 IP will be the best damaging poison compared to WP.

Ofcourse if these are max ranks then yeah thats weird
#19 Sep 22 2008 at 2:39 PM Rating: Good
yankytoon wrote:
Is the start post in reference to the highest ranks of each of these poisons, meaning at no time from lvl 68 - 80 will we learn a new IP or WP? I am just thinking maybe IP will increase in damage more than WP over the increase in ranks and eventually at lvl 80 IP will be the best damaging poison compared to WP.

Ofcourse if these are max ranks then yeah thats weird


You realize that he copied not only the ranks of IP/WP but the actual levels when they're learned?

There are new ranks. They weren't included since this pertains more to when 3.0 goes live.
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