I ran Kara for the first time on my hunter last night, and it went pretty smoothly (except for the part where I panicked when I got turned into red riding hood, died, released, and luckily was still able to get the shoulders). The times when I really had trouble were when I was expected to trap something.
I did very well trapping on my assigned add for the Moroes fight, I had room to kit him around a bit when I needed to and set the traps very far apart. On other pulls, my trap was only resisted once, but they broke early a fair bit, and my biggest difficulty was actually getting the mob to my trap. The first time, I had my distracting shot all ready to go, but when the tank pulled my mob was out of line of sight for just a little bit, and I had to really fight to get it back after the pally hit it. Another time, the mob was out of line of sight of my trap (in another room, I had to stand on top of the tank in the door to even target it) so I stood back at my trap along the hall and waited for to tanks to pull the mobs out to us--instead, they took the whole group right in the doorway, and no matter what I did I couldn't pull my mob off the pally.
I do pretty well trapping in 5-mans, and while points in Survival would make it even better I am very much enjoying the cookie-cutter BM/MM spec I have right now and don't really want to change that. I've been having fun pumping out tons of damage (even if I was usually 4th-5th overall, I jump up to 2nd or 3rd on boss fights) and I don't really want to lose that just so I can trap things a little easier. (I talked to some guild officers, and they said that I can do pretty much whatever I want with my spec, so that's not an issue at least. And since the other main hunters are SV and MM/SV, it would be a little redundant when we get to bigger raids.)
What I really need to do, I think, is work on my skill, not my spec. I'm not sure quite how to do that though, I mean I could always have my husband (the pally tank, in fact) run instances with me so I can get used to trapping with him, but I don't think all the practice in the world will let me pull mobs off of him. The only other thing I can think of doing on those pulls I have trouble with, is to put my pet on stay behind my trap, stand up by the tank so I can see the mob, and misdirect to my pet. It's worked well when I've tried it in 5-mans, but it makes re-trapping the mob a little tricky for me since I don't have aggro on it, and it pretty much means I can't use my pet for the rest of the fight if I want to hang onto the mob and not have it just run over to where the tanks are.
Is there anything I'm missing that would make trapping even a little easier for me? Some kind of extra trick that isn't really made obvious anywhere (kind of like how you need to train ranks of aimed shot...I missed that one last night when I respecced XD)
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Does the Pally give you salvation? Could be your problem there. Also, I usually use arcane, let one auto hit mob and then fire distracting shot to pull mobs. You should have plenty of time to do this. I use a trapping macro for the distracting shot that stops casting and stops attack so I don't have to worry about breaking my own CC. With this macro:
/cast distracting shot
/stop casting
/stop attack
/target lasttarget
Click on skull mob then click on the blue square, hit arcane and let an auto follow and then hit the macro. It pulls threat even if the tank hits it with avengers shield and a consecrate and retargets the skull so you can start DPSing while the mob is coming to the trap. If you cannot pull with this much threat the tank outgears you significantly and will need no trap.
The macro might not be exactly right but someone will chime in and correct it shortly. Write it and test before you use it in an instance.
Tank should pull to where he says he is going to pull. You cannot trap, especially with a pally, unless you know where the tank is pulling to. Pally can tank them all otherwise.
Now having said all that, I only really trap in Kara on morose. The tank and offtank should be able to control all of the Mobs and undead are resistant to freezing traps anyway.
Edited, Sep 19th 2008 12:55pm by Sweathog
/cast distracting shot
/stop casting
/stop attack
/target lasttarget
Click on skull mob then click on the blue square, hit arcane and let an auto follow and then hit the macro. It pulls threat even if the tank hits it with avengers shield and a consecrate and retargets the skull so you can start DPSing while the mob is coming to the trap. If you cannot pull with this much threat the tank outgears you significantly and will need no trap.
The macro might not be exactly right but someone will chime in and correct it shortly. Write it and test before you use it in an instance.
Tank should pull to where he says he is going to pull. You cannot trap, especially with a pally, unless you know where the tank is pulling to. Pally can tank them all otherwise.
Now having said all that, I only really trap in Kara on morose. The tank and offtank should be able to control all of the Mobs and undead are resistant to freezing traps anyway.
Edited, Sep 19th 2008 12:55pm by Sweathog
Since you run with a Pally tank, don't worry about trapping trash unless he's having a hard time staying alive (and if he can't handle 3-4 trash mobs, I wouldn't be comfortable with him tanking a boss). The reason we trap isn't usually because the tanks can't handle an extra mob, it's because a Warrior or Druid can't always hold enough threat on multiple targets to keep them off of the healers. Pally tanks have no problem holding multiple mobs.
Moroes is really the only time I ever had to worry about trapping when I had a pally tank.
Feign Death until you're normal again. He'll go back to the tank. :D
Edited, Sep 19th 2008 7:37am by ProjectMidnight
Moroes is really the only time I ever had to worry about trapping when I had a pally tank.
isyris wrote:
(except for the part where I panicked when I got turned into red riding hood, died, released, and luckily was still able to get the shoulders)
Feign Death until you're normal again. He'll go back to the tank. :D
Edited, Sep 19th 2008 7:37am by ProjectMidnight
I had might, not salv, but unless we have two pallies in next week I will probably get salv (I was apparently making our warrior nervous).
The pally is our offtank, not our main tank, maybe that's why I need to trap? Also, we were going for a very quick run--for the first time, the guild cleared Kara in about three hours (skipped the dragons though), and maybe the traps helped with that.
I didn't know about the target last target thing, that sounds like exactly what I need. :) I normally just use my /assist focus macro, but with targeting my last target there is much less room for error. :)
The pally is our offtank, not our main tank, maybe that's why I need to trap? Also, we were going for a very quick run--for the first time, the guild cleared Kara in about three hours (skipped the dragons though), and maybe the traps helped with that.
I didn't know about the target last target thing, that sounds like exactly what I need. :) I normally just use my /assist focus macro, but with targeting my last target there is much less room for error. :)
The trap macro works great, much better than focus macro IMO.
Salvation sucks - less threat for MD and makes trapping a *****. FD early and whenever it is up. MIGHT>KINGS>WISDOM
If your guild can clear Kara in 3 hours you shouldn't need to trap at all, in fact I think this would slow things up a bit.
Pally tank is perfect OT and is even more compelling reason to not to trap.
Salvation sucks - less threat for MD and makes trapping a *****. FD early and whenever it is up. MIGHT>KINGS>WISDOM
If your guild can clear Kara in 3 hours you shouldn't need to trap at all, in fact I think this would slow things up a bit.
Pally tank is perfect OT and is even more compelling reason to not to trap.
I too had a nightmare experience with Moroes (search a couple of pages back) and it forced me to re-evaluate how I was trapping. I didn't have an issue as MM/SV but that's because the fire rate was much lower. As BM, I fire so quickly in autoshot that it fires while I'm tabbing through targets- BAD! I broke shackle during Moroes so much it make me look like a total huntard.
So, I went looking for trapping macros and I saw one like the above but I didn't like having a 'hot' target, even with the stop attack in it. So I opted for a different option that is working well so far. First, I changed my keybinding to include a 'set focus' hotkey stroke. Then I made a macro similar to above but it includes a (target=focus) for the macro shot. (Sorry, I don't have it in front of me so I can't give the actual text of it)
Now when I pull I click on my assigned target, use the 'set focus' hotkey stroke and go back to the tanks target. I fire the macro shot after the tank pulls and it pulls the focus target to me while I start whamming on the tank target when it reaches him (we have a good Kara tank and he out aggros me by a ton). I never have my CC target as a 'live' target until we get to them. No accidental breaking of CC.
This is NOT the true command but it looks similar:
#showtooltip Trap Pull Shot
/cast (target=focus): Arcane Shot (Rank 9)
I've threatened to add a command to force my target to the tanks target and send pet but I'm leery of doing that automatically. It could be hazardous in certain situations. I am also going to make a derivative of my standard shot rotation macro that targets the focus target so I can technically keep two targets under fire as needed for those situations where one becomes immune or unattackable and the other needs some more damage. It would also let me instantly switch between Main Tank and Off Tank targets when I'm not CC'ing and not skip any time retargeting. Should up my dps a smidge or two... ^_^ (haven't done this yet!)
So, I went looking for trapping macros and I saw one like the above but I didn't like having a 'hot' target, even with the stop attack in it. So I opted for a different option that is working well so far. First, I changed my keybinding to include a 'set focus' hotkey stroke. Then I made a macro similar to above but it includes a (target=focus) for the macro shot. (Sorry, I don't have it in front of me so I can't give the actual text of it)
Now when I pull I click on my assigned target, use the 'set focus' hotkey stroke and go back to the tanks target. I fire the macro shot after the tank pulls and it pulls the focus target to me while I start whamming on the tank target when it reaches him (we have a good Kara tank and he out aggros me by a ton). I never have my CC target as a 'live' target until we get to them. No accidental breaking of CC.
This is NOT the true command but it looks similar:
#showtooltip Trap Pull Shot
/cast (target=focus): Arcane Shot (Rank 9)
I've threatened to add a command to force my target to the tanks target and send pet but I'm leery of doing that automatically. It could be hazardous in certain situations. I am also going to make a derivative of my standard shot rotation macro that targets the focus target so I can technically keep two targets under fire as needed for those situations where one becomes immune or unattackable and the other needs some more damage. It would also let me instantly switch between Main Tank and Off Tank targets when I'm not CC'ing and not skip any time retargeting. Should up my dps a smidge or two... ^_^ (haven't done this yet!)
If you really want to practice trapping, then I'd recommend running 5-man instances whenever possible. Back before heroics keys only required honored, I ran a bunch of instances for the rep. In the process, I learned how to trap pretty effectively.
Unfortunately, for hunters some of the basic mechanics of trapping make our lives more difficult. This is especially true if you're spec'd BM/MM because you just don't have the points in the trap improvement talents. Hunter traps are one of the least reliable forms of CC, even the best hunters will have problems that are out of their control. So, don't get frustrated if your traps get resisted or fail early...it just happens.
Also, this could be total BS, but in my experience the mobs in Kara seem more resistant to traps. They consistently seem to be resisted more in Kara. So much so, that in my experience we usually don't even bother trapping...we just use the other available CC, unless it's absolutely necessary to trap.
A couple comments here. First, pulling aggro off the tank shouldn't really be an issue with trapping. If the pulls are done right, you'll be hitting your target simultaneously with the pull, so you should get aggro right away. Second, it sounds like you could also use some practice with pet management (which is also another thing 5-mans are good for). There's not really any reason to keep your pet by your side during a fight (most of the time). Trapping isn't an exception. In fact, with practice you'll be able to trap one target, have you pet off-tanking another, while you're dps'ing a third. It just takes practice to get it down. Finally, it sounds like your groups dps may need to focus a little better. With the unreliable nature of traps, hunter CC targets are usually second or third on the kill order. You shouldn't really need to worry about holding it for too long. But, if you're groups dps is lagging, that can create difficulty.
One other thing...try to drop your first trap in advance of the pull. Don't wait for the pull. The cooldown on the trap is longer than the duration of the trap. Timing that first drop and trap with the cooldown in mind is very helpful for chain trapping a mob.
Anyway, I hope you find these suggestions/comments helpful. Good luck.
Unfortunately, for hunters some of the basic mechanics of trapping make our lives more difficult. This is especially true if you're spec'd BM/MM because you just don't have the points in the trap improvement talents. Hunter traps are one of the least reliable forms of CC, even the best hunters will have problems that are out of their control. So, don't get frustrated if your traps get resisted or fail early...it just happens.
Also, this could be total BS, but in my experience the mobs in Kara seem more resistant to traps. They consistently seem to be resisted more in Kara. So much so, that in my experience we usually don't even bother trapping...we just use the other available CC, unless it's absolutely necessary to trap.
Quote:
What I really need to do, I think, is work on my skill, not my spec. I'm not sure quite how to do that though, I mean I could always have my husband (the pally tank, in fact) run instances with me so I can get used to trapping with him, but I don't think all the practice in the world will let me pull mobs off of him. The only other thing I can think of doing on those pulls I have trouble with, is to put my pet on stay behind my trap, stand up by the tank so I can see the mob, and misdirect to my pet. It's worked well when I've tried it in 5-mans, but it makes re-trapping the mob a little tricky for me since I don't have aggro on it, and it pretty much means I can't use my pet for the rest of the fight if I want to hang onto the mob and not have it just run over to where the tanks are.
A couple comments here. First, pulling aggro off the tank shouldn't really be an issue with trapping. If the pulls are done right, you'll be hitting your target simultaneously with the pull, so you should get aggro right away. Second, it sounds like you could also use some practice with pet management (which is also another thing 5-mans are good for). There's not really any reason to keep your pet by your side during a fight (most of the time). Trapping isn't an exception. In fact, with practice you'll be able to trap one target, have you pet off-tanking another, while you're dps'ing a third. It just takes practice to get it down. Finally, it sounds like your groups dps may need to focus a little better. With the unreliable nature of traps, hunter CC targets are usually second or third on the kill order. You shouldn't really need to worry about holding it for too long. But, if you're groups dps is lagging, that can create difficulty.
One other thing...try to drop your first trap in advance of the pull. Don't wait for the pull. The cooldown on the trap is longer than the duration of the trap. Timing that first drop and trap with the cooldown in mind is very helpful for chain trapping a mob.
Anyway, I hope you find these suggestions/comments helpful. Good luck.
isyris wrote:
The pally is our offtank, not our main tank, maybe that's why I need to trap?
Really shouldn't matter whether the pally is main or off tank. If there is a Prot-specced pally in the group, the hunters shouldn't have to use traps. Consecration is much more reliable. The only mobs that need to be CCed are the ones that do particularly nasty debuffs, heals or AoE damage, but then they should be sheeped/shackled/banished/Anything that is targeted and spamable.
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