Source
Warlock
* Aftermath (Destruction) - Now a 2-point talent, down from 5.
* All demon abilities and spells will automatically be learned as pets gain levels. Demon Master trainers will be removed.
* Avoidance (Felguard): Now reduces damage taken from area of effect attacks by an additional 80% and is automatically learned for the Succubus, Imp, Voidwalker, and Felhunter at level 10.
* Bane now reduces the cast time of your Haunt spell.
* Blood Pact now works raid-wide (not just in party).
* Cataclysm (Destruction) - Now also increases your chance to hit with Destruction spells by 1% per point.
* Consume Shadows (Voidwalker): Duration reduced to 6 seconds, and effect increased 66%. Now also greatly increases all nearby allies’ stealth detection while channeled.
* Curse of Recklessness will no longer prevent Fear effects, only prevent NPCs from fleeing (e.g. at low health).
* Dark Pact: Tooltip updated to be more consistent with other similar effects and now restores 200% mana leeched from your summoned Demon, up from 100%.
* Demon Armor - Now increases healing done by spells and effects by 20%, but no longer has in-combat health regeneration.
* Demon Skin, Demon Armor and Fel Armor are no longer Magic effects and cannot be dispelled.
* Demonic Sacrifice: Succubus effect reduced to 10% increased shadow damage, down from 15%. Imp effect reduced to 10% increased fire damage, down from 15%. Felguard effect now increases Fire and Shadow damage, instead of just Shadow.
* Doomguard: Health increased 20%, mana increased 24%.
* Emberstorm now reduces the cast time of your incinerate by 0.1/0.2/0.3/0.4/0.5 seconds.
* Fel Armor - Now increases your spell damage equal to 30% of your total Spirit, but no longer increases healing done by spells and effects by 20%.
* Felguard: Health increased by 10%.
* Felhunter: Paranoia and Tainted Blood have been replaced with Fel Intelligence and Shadow Bite.
* Fel Intelligence (Felhunter): Increases total Intellect and Spirit of party and raid members by 3%. Lasts until cancelled.
* Fel Stamina (Demonology) has been merged with Fel Intellect into Fel Vitality.
* Howl of Terror now costs 15% of base mana.
* Infernal: Cooldown reduced to 15 minutes, down from 1 hour. Duration reduced to 1 minute, down from 5 minutes+. Health increased by 30%, damage increased by 60%, and armor increased by 30%.
* Imp: Health increased by 20% , Armor increased 16%, mana regeneration increased 200%.
* Improved Curse of Weakness (Affliction) is now "Frailty" - Increases the amount of attack power reduced by your Curse of Weakness spell by 10/20%, and increases the amount of armor reduced by your Curse of Recklessness by 10/20%.
* Improved Enslave Demon (Demonology) is now a Tier 5 talent, up from Tier 4.
* Improved Lash of Pain (Destruction) and Improved Firebolt (Destruction) have been merged into one talent, Demonic Power.
* Improved Shadow Bolt (Destruction) - Now increases damage by your next Shadow damage spells by 3/6/9/12/15%, down from 4/8/12/16/20%.
* Mana Feed: Tooltip updated to be more consistent with other similar effects.
* Master Demonologist (Demonology) - Most effects have been altered.
o Master Demonologist – Felguard (Demonology) - Now increases all damage by 1/2/3/4/5%, and reduces all damage done to you by 1/2/3/4/5%.
o Master Demonologist – Imp (Demonology) - Now increases Fire damage by 1/2/3/4/5%, and critical hit chance with Fire spells by 1/2/3/4/5%.
o Master Demonologist – Succubus (Demonology) - Now increases Shadow damage by 1/2/3/4/5%, and critical hit chance with Shadow spells by 1/2/3/4/5%.
* Nether Protection has been reworked. It now has a 10/20/30% chance when you’re hit with a spell to reduce all damage by that spell school by 60% for 10 seconds.
* New Talent: Demonic Empowerment (Demonology) - Grants your Summoned Demon power for a short time.
* New Talent: Eradication (Affliction) - Your Corruption, Siphon Life and Curse of Agony ticks have a 5/10/15% chance to increase your spell haste by 20% for 8 sec. This effect has a 10 second cooldown.
* New Talent: Improved Felhunter (Affliction): Your Felhunter gains mana equal to 50/100% of the damage done by its Shadow Bite ability, and increases the effect of your Felhunter’s Fel Intelligence by 1/2%.
* New Talent: Molten Core (Destruction) - Your Shadow spells and damage over time effects have a 5/10/15% chance to increase the damage of your Fire spells by 10% for 6 sec.
* Pyroclasm (Destruction) - Now also includes Conflagrate.
* Rain of Fire (Doomguard): A bug has been fixed which caused each tick of Rain of Fire to consume its mana cost.
* Ritual of Souls: Charges increased to 25, up from 10.
* Shadow Bite (Felhunter): Deals Shadow damage plus an additional 5% Shadow damage over time effect on the target. 6 second cooldown.
* Shadowfury (Destruction) - Can now be cast while moving. Stun duration increased to 3 seconds, up from 2.
* Soul Link (Demonology) is now an 11-point talent (used to be a 31-point talent), but the 5% bonus damage from this talent has been removed. In addition, the damage absorbed by Soul Link is now 15%, down from 20%.
* Soul Siphon (Affliction): Now also increases the damage of your Drain Soul.
* Soulstone now generates a log entry indicating who casted and received a soulstone.
* Spell Lock (Felhunter) global cooldown removed.
* Succubus: Health increased by 20%, armor increased 22%.
* Summon Dreadsteed/Felsteed: Mana cost removed, global cooldown removed.
* Suppression (Affliction) is now a 3-point talent, down from 5. Now increases your chance to hit with Affliction spells by 1/2/3%, down from 1/2/3/4/5%.
* Unstable Affliction (Affliction): Silence effect reduced to 3 seconds, down from 5.
* Voidwalker: Health increased by 20%, Damage increased by 16%. The amount of attack power the Voidwalker gains from its master’s spell damage has been increased by 45%.
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PTR 3.0.2. Patch NotesFollow
whats with the Fel armour increasing SD by 30% of spirit? Spirit is not a warlock thing (or has that changed?) I cant remember but I think my 70 lock has 97 spirit or something. There a reason for this change?
Also, soul link now only reduces damage by 15% and provides no other benefit?
Have not been keeping up with the lock changes as much as the pally ones (pally main, lock second main)and it seems that locks are anally ingesting the nerfstick.
Or is it not that bad?
Also, soul link now only reduces damage by 15% and provides no other benefit?
Have not been keeping up with the lock changes as much as the pally ones (pally main, lock second main)and it seems that locks are anally ingesting the nerfstick.
Or is it not that bad?
Yeah, it's pretty bad. The spirit thing is new and I don't like it either. I haven't got any spirit, why would I, I have LT/DP.
they haven't listed the full change up there...
Fel Armor: Increases spell power by 180 plus additional spell power equal to 30% of your Spirit. Also regenerate 2% of maximum health every 5 sec
the regenereate thing used to be "30% of passive mana regen", but since they nerfed it to not have that... spirit really isn't (or at least shouldn't) be worth it for us... the increased +dmg is nice, but honestly.. seeing as they want felarmor for pve, demon armor for pvp, it really should have mana regen instead of life-tap... especially seeing how they've nerfed the amount of mana we get from life-tap...
Fel Armor: Increases spell power by 180 plus additional spell power equal to 30% of your Spirit. Also regenerate 2% of maximum health every 5 sec
the regenereate thing used to be "30% of passive mana regen", but since they nerfed it to not have that... spirit really isn't (or at least shouldn't) be worth it for us... the increased +dmg is nice, but honestly.. seeing as they want felarmor for pve, demon armor for pvp, it really should have mana regen instead of life-tap... especially seeing how they've nerfed the amount of mana we get from life-tap...
Must admit, it doesn't make stacking spirit any more sensible or worthwhile. Just a bit of a loss on the mana regen but when you take into account the nerfing of LT - it's a double nerf really.
This is looking like a nerf for Demo locks, but I still need to play with the tallents and crunch numbers.
I don't see any mention of demon form tallent though - anyone know where that stands?
I don't see any mention of demon form tallent though - anyone know where that stands?
you keep your pet now, completely usable. 50% reduction to stuns and movement impairing effects, 40% increase in damage. 360 or 600% increase in armor (i forget which)
so demon form is pretty damn OP now.
so demon form is pretty damn OP now.
From what I've been reading and hearing across the forums, I believe that bliz is giving a higher dependency of spirit on lock gear because with northrend and LK in general there wont be "lock gear" specifically. There will be "caster gear" instead.
They are simplifying the combat rating system and stats in general so that each rating will extend to more fields of play. One example that I can think of about this is they are merging spell hit rating with hit rating to be just hit rating. I elieve they are also merging spell damage with spell healing to create spell power. If the spellpower merge goes through you can expect whole new spell coefficients.
This means that with LK we will get spirit with "our" gear. Of course we cant really use spirit for mana regeneration, so bliz had to give us something for spending itemization points on it and why not attach it to one of the most common self buffs? I think this is to help hybrid classes function with less gear (Druids can be Trees by day and OOM(kin) by night). All in all it seems like good changes to come, except for competition over gear.
They are simplifying the combat rating system and stats in general so that each rating will extend to more fields of play. One example that I can think of about this is they are merging spell hit rating with hit rating to be just hit rating. I elieve they are also merging spell damage with spell healing to create spell power. If the spellpower merge goes through you can expect whole new spell coefficients.
This means that with LK we will get spirit with "our" gear. Of course we cant really use spirit for mana regeneration, so bliz had to give us something for spending itemization points on it and why not attach it to one of the most common self buffs? I think this is to help hybrid classes function with less gear (Druids can be Trees by day and OOM(kin) by night). All in all it seems like good changes to come, except for competition over gear.
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especially seeing how they've nerfed the amount of mana we get from life-tap...
From what I have heard, Life Tap will give greater benefit with more spirit (it scales off of both spirit and spellpower from what I understand).
As far as Soul Link, it got moved to an 11-point talent (down from 31). Of course it got nerfed.
Also, I wouldn't be so quick to call Meta "OP," as it is still susceptible as far as I know to Turn Evil, Enslave Demon, Banish, Fear, etc. Not to mention stuns. Unfortunately, I'm not sure if it provides any actual raid usage, which kinda sucks, and we may still see 0/50/21 Demo specs for raiding.
Edited, Sep 16th 2008 10:17am by wingsofscion
Meta is only 'P' (never mind 'OP') if it breaks crowd control effects; if it did that, it would be a seriously strong contender for the best lock ability in the game. Turn Evil be damned, if I can break stun get Plate armour and slap a Rogue in the face like an Arms Warrior I'd be a happy chappy.
Right now it is a healthy PvE boost for short-duration bosses, any boss under 5min fight time (or near any multiple of Meta's cooldown actually) allows the talent to really shine through as a raid damage booster. Since you can pop two trinkets over the duration and multiply their effects too, it scales nicely. Against the traditionally very short 5-man bosses in Heroics and Normal, it increases the lock's damage on that fight by 25%-40% depending on the length. That's pretty damn huge, and far in excess of 5% spellcrit. Whether it will outperform the entire destro tree remains to be seen, but at least Demo locks won't totally suck for raiding now.
Since Meta locks can also attain 100% crit bonus now, in PvP it gives Demo locks a really evil little burst damage ability assuming a Paladin doesnt fear them, although Will of the Forsaken (hehehehe...) breaks that in the current build, as do PvP trinkets, and so does cancelling the buff if you really needed to. And of course Turn Evil and Shackle are both dispellable in Arena.
Overall Im much happier about Meta than I used to be, but to be honest Id rather it increases yours and your pet's damage by 25% and had a 3min cooldown. 5mins is just... well it's annoying and un-fun.
Right now it is a healthy PvE boost for short-duration bosses, any boss under 5min fight time (or near any multiple of Meta's cooldown actually) allows the talent to really shine through as a raid damage booster. Since you can pop two trinkets over the duration and multiply their effects too, it scales nicely. Against the traditionally very short 5-man bosses in Heroics and Normal, it increases the lock's damage on that fight by 25%-40% depending on the length. That's pretty damn huge, and far in excess of 5% spellcrit. Whether it will outperform the entire destro tree remains to be seen, but at least Demo locks won't totally suck for raiding now.
Since Meta locks can also attain 100% crit bonus now, in PvP it gives Demo locks a really evil little burst damage ability assuming a Paladin doesnt fear them, although Will of the Forsaken (hehehehe...) breaks that in the current build, as do PvP trinkets, and so does cancelling the buff if you really needed to. And of course Turn Evil and Shackle are both dispellable in Arena.
Overall Im much happier about Meta than I used to be, but to be honest Id rather it increases yours and your pet's damage by 25% and had a 3min cooldown. 5mins is just... well it's annoying and un-fun.
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you keep your pet now, completely usable. 50% reduction to stuns and movement impairing effects, 40% increase in damage. 360 or 600% increase in armor (i forget which)
so demon form is pretty damn OP now.
so demon form is pretty damn OP now.
Do you still get to cast your own spells or are you limited to the six demon spells/skills?
rusttle wrote:
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you keep your pet now, completely usable. 50% reduction to stuns and movement impairing effects, 40% increase in damage. 360 or 600% increase in armor (i forget which)
so demon form is pretty damn OP now.
so demon form is pretty damn OP now.
Do you still get to cast your own spells or are you limited to the six demon spells/skills?
You still get to cast your old spells as well as the 6 new ones last I read.
it's 2 new ones
You get to cast your own spells, your Demon remains summoned, Soul Link and all Master Demonologist buffs remain active.
It seriously does kick *** for PvE damage, or for really upsetting people in Battlegrounds. Oh, and it makes Warlocks even more ridiculous in Duels than they are now, until lvl80 scaling kicks in and melee starts to pwn again, locks are winning a great many more duels against Rogues and Warriors, although Afflic and Destro still get owned all over in PvP.
It seriously does kick *** for PvE damage, or for really upsetting people in Battlegrounds. Oh, and it makes Warlocks even more ridiculous in Duels than they are now, until lvl80 scaling kicks in and melee starts to pwn again, locks are winning a great many more duels against Rogues and Warriors, although Afflic and Destro still get owned all over in PvP.
So Boomkin form for locks, efen-A!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wow - this is so great, its going to result in just about every lock and thier mom want to be a demo lock!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wow - this is so great, its going to result in just about every lock and thier mom want to be a demo lock!!!!!!!!!!!!
Latest patch note changes. some IMBA buffs to destruction and some generally nice changes to afliction :)
Affliction
Skills
Curse of Doom now gives 100% chance to spawn a doomguard if the target dies to curse of doom.
Curse of Elements now affects all magic types.
Corruption is now instant cast.
Talents
Death's Embrace (Tier 9) increases damage done with your shadow spells by 4/8/12% when the target is below 35% health. (Previously 3/6/9% critical strike when below 20%)
Malediction (Tier 8 ) now increases spell damage by 1/2/3% as well as its previous effect.
Improved Felhunter (Tier 6) now returns 4/8% of its maximum mana each time it deals damage with its shadow bite ability.
Improved Fear (Tier 3) now causes your Fear spell to inflict a Nightmare on the target when the fear effect ends. The Nightmare effect reduces the target's movement speed by 15/30% for 5 sec.
Fel Concentration (Tier 3) is now only 3 ranks and now increases chance to avoid interruption by 23/46/70%. (Previously 14/28/42/56/70%)
Amplify Curse (Tier 3) reduces the global cooldown of curses by .5 sec. Other effects removed.
Improved Corruption (Tier 1) now increases the damage done by your Corruption by 4/8/12/16/20%. (Previously reduced Corruption Cast time)
Demonology
Skills
Spellstones now increase periodic damage by 1% and spell haste rating (40 spell haste for rank 4 Spellstone. Check Skill list for details)
Health Funnel now has a 45 yard range.
Firestones now increase direct damage by 1% and spell crit rating (35 spell crit for rank 5 Firestone. Check Skill list for details)
Talents
Metamorphosis (Tier 11) now increases your armor by 600%, damage by 40%, reduces the chance you'll be critically hit by melee attacks by 6% and reduces the duration of stun and snare effects by 50%.
Master Conjuror (Tier 5) increases the effects of your Firestone and Spellstone by 15/30%.
Improved Succubus (Tier 3) - Reduces the cast time of your Succubus' Seduction by 33/66/100% and increases the duration of your Succubus' Seduction and Lesser Invisibility spells by 10/20/30%.
Improved Health Funnel (Tier 2) now reduces the damage your demon takes while under the Health Funnel effect by 15/30% in addition to its previous effect.
Improved Voidwalker renamed Demonic Brutality (Tier 2) and now also increases the attack power bonus on your Felguard's Demonic Frenzy effect by 1/2/3%.
Destruction
Skills
Soul Fire cooldown removed.
Talents
Chaos Bolt (Tier 11) damage increased and mana cost reduced. Now causes the effect Chaotic Mind when used.
Chaotic Mind - Damage done by your Immolate has a 8% chance to cause your next Soul Fire spell to be instant cast, cost no mana and consume no soul shard. Lasts 8 sec.
Backdraft (Tier 9) no longer reduces the mana cost of your next 3 destruction spells.
Shadow and Flame (Tier 8 ) now affects Chaos Bolt.
Soul Leech (Tier 7) now affects Chaos Bolt.
Improved Immolate (Tier 5) is now 3 ranks and increases the initial damage of immolate by 10/20/30%. (Previously 5 ranks and increased damage by 5/10/15/20/25%)
Devastation (Tier 3) is now 1 rank and increases the critical strike chance of your Destruction spells by 5%. (Previously 5 ranks and 1/2/3/4/5%)
Ruin (Tier 5) is now 5 ranks and increases the critical strike damage bonus of your Destruction spells by 20/40/60/80/100%. (Previously 1 rank at 100%)
Glyphs
Glyph of Unending Breath - Increases the swim speed of targets affected by your Unending Breath spell by 20%.
Glyph of Curse of Exhausion - Increases the range of your Curse of Exhaustion spell by 5 yards.
Glyph of Enslave Demon - Reduces the cast time of your Enslave Demon spell by 50%.
Glyph of Felguard - Increases the Felguard's total attack power by 10%. (Old - Increases your Felguard's physical damage by 20%.)
Glyph of Voidwalker - Increases your Voidwalker's total health by 20%. (Old - Increases your Voidwalker's health by 20%.)
Glyph of Imp - Increaes the damage done by your Imp's Firebolt spell by 10%. (Old - Increases your Imp's spell damage by 20%.)
Glyph of Felhunter - Increases the critical strike chance of your Felhunter's Shadow Bite ability by 6%. (Old - Increases your Felhunter's spell damage by 20%.)
Glyph of Demonic Armor has been removed
Glyph of Fel Armor has been removed
Glyph of Inferno has been removed.
Affliction
Skills
Curse of Doom now gives 100% chance to spawn a doomguard if the target dies to curse of doom.
Curse of Elements now affects all magic types.
Corruption is now instant cast.
Talents
Death's Embrace (Tier 9) increases damage done with your shadow spells by 4/8/12% when the target is below 35% health. (Previously 3/6/9% critical strike when below 20%)
Malediction (Tier 8 ) now increases spell damage by 1/2/3% as well as its previous effect.
Improved Felhunter (Tier 6) now returns 4/8% of its maximum mana each time it deals damage with its shadow bite ability.
Improved Fear (Tier 3) now causes your Fear spell to inflict a Nightmare on the target when the fear effect ends. The Nightmare effect reduces the target's movement speed by 15/30% for 5 sec.
Fel Concentration (Tier 3) is now only 3 ranks and now increases chance to avoid interruption by 23/46/70%. (Previously 14/28/42/56/70%)
Amplify Curse (Tier 3) reduces the global cooldown of curses by .5 sec. Other effects removed.
Improved Corruption (Tier 1) now increases the damage done by your Corruption by 4/8/12/16/20%. (Previously reduced Corruption Cast time)
Demonology
Skills
Spellstones now increase periodic damage by 1% and spell haste rating (40 spell haste for rank 4 Spellstone. Check Skill list for details)
Health Funnel now has a 45 yard range.
Firestones now increase direct damage by 1% and spell crit rating (35 spell crit for rank 5 Firestone. Check Skill list for details)
Talents
Metamorphosis (Tier 11) now increases your armor by 600%, damage by 40%, reduces the chance you'll be critically hit by melee attacks by 6% and reduces the duration of stun and snare effects by 50%.
Master Conjuror (Tier 5) increases the effects of your Firestone and Spellstone by 15/30%.
Improved Succubus (Tier 3) - Reduces the cast time of your Succubus' Seduction by 33/66/100% and increases the duration of your Succubus' Seduction and Lesser Invisibility spells by 10/20/30%.
Improved Health Funnel (Tier 2) now reduces the damage your demon takes while under the Health Funnel effect by 15/30% in addition to its previous effect.
Improved Voidwalker renamed Demonic Brutality (Tier 2) and now also increases the attack power bonus on your Felguard's Demonic Frenzy effect by 1/2/3%.
Destruction
Skills
Soul Fire cooldown removed.
Talents
Chaos Bolt (Tier 11) damage increased and mana cost reduced. Now causes the effect Chaotic Mind when used.
Chaotic Mind - Damage done by your Immolate has a 8% chance to cause your next Soul Fire spell to be instant cast, cost no mana and consume no soul shard. Lasts 8 sec.
Backdraft (Tier 9) no longer reduces the mana cost of your next 3 destruction spells.
Shadow and Flame (Tier 8 ) now affects Chaos Bolt.
Soul Leech (Tier 7) now affects Chaos Bolt.
Improved Immolate (Tier 5) is now 3 ranks and increases the initial damage of immolate by 10/20/30%. (Previously 5 ranks and increased damage by 5/10/15/20/25%)
Devastation (Tier 3) is now 1 rank and increases the critical strike chance of your Destruction spells by 5%. (Previously 5 ranks and 1/2/3/4/5%)
Ruin (Tier 5) is now 5 ranks and increases the critical strike damage bonus of your Destruction spells by 20/40/60/80/100%. (Previously 1 rank at 100%)
Glyphs
Glyph of Unending Breath - Increases the swim speed of targets affected by your Unending Breath spell by 20%.
Glyph of Curse of Exhausion - Increases the range of your Curse of Exhaustion spell by 5 yards.
Glyph of Enslave Demon - Reduces the cast time of your Enslave Demon spell by 50%.
Glyph of Felguard - Increases the Felguard's total attack power by 10%. (Old - Increases your Felguard's physical damage by 20%.)
Glyph of Voidwalker - Increases your Voidwalker's total health by 20%. (Old - Increases your Voidwalker's health by 20%.)
Glyph of Imp - Increaes the damage done by your Imp's Firebolt spell by 10%. (Old - Increases your Imp's spell damage by 20%.)
Glyph of Felhunter - Increases the critical strike chance of your Felhunter's Shadow Bite ability by 6%. (Old - Increases your Felhunter's spell damage by 20%.)
Glyph of Demonic Armor has been removed
Glyph of Fel Armor has been removed
Glyph of Inferno has been removed.
I dunno about IMBA Destro buffs; the soul fire cooldown removal actually brings us up to par with other nuking classes. The Chaotic Mind proc is literally Surge of Light, except where SF can crit and Smite can't. Remember that the regular Soul Fire (non proc) still has a shard cost, though. Still, this is a HUGE buff to Destruction PvP, where Soul Fire is most frequently used - and also the tree that is currently lacking most in PvP.
The Backdraft change is probably a good balance, considering the Chaotic Mind addition, as well as the fact that Destro might well be OP in that regard with a mana cost reduction during Backdraft (people are already considering using 3x Soul Fire or 1x Soul Fire 2x Sbolt for Backdraft in raiding; lord knows where it would go in PvP).
I am, in a way, glad that they changed Devastation and Ruin, but that still leaves both Aff and Demo pigeonholed into subbing Destro for Destructive Reach and Bane (since they refuse to give either tree a nuke other than Shadow Bolt).
Amplify Curse is a straight up nerf, and yet, we still have to pick it up.
Corruption is a buff, bigtime, as Empowered Corruption is still in the tree. So it's a buff to Destro + Frailty specs, as well as Affliction as a whole.
Curse of Exhaustion remains in its **** poor state, and Improved Fear + CoEx will be a required talent point investment for Affliction PvP.
Malediction is a buff, but tree is still obscenely bloated.
Master Conjuror even still being in the tree is an insult.
Health Funnel change is decent, but it needs pushback resistance added to the talent.
Imp. Succubus will possibly see use in Destro PvP now that it's instant when specced for.
Demonic Brutality is a buff for Demo locks, considering some people level as Demo, and people have been wanting Felguard buffs for a long time.
Meta buff is NICE for PvP.
Edited, Sep 18th 2008 1:05pm by wingsofscion
The Backdraft change is probably a good balance, considering the Chaotic Mind addition, as well as the fact that Destro might well be OP in that regard with a mana cost reduction during Backdraft (people are already considering using 3x Soul Fire or 1x Soul Fire 2x Sbolt for Backdraft in raiding; lord knows where it would go in PvP).
I am, in a way, glad that they changed Devastation and Ruin, but that still leaves both Aff and Demo pigeonholed into subbing Destro for Destructive Reach and Bane (since they refuse to give either tree a nuke other than Shadow Bolt).
Amplify Curse is a straight up nerf, and yet, we still have to pick it up.
Corruption is a buff, bigtime, as Empowered Corruption is still in the tree. So it's a buff to Destro + Frailty specs, as well as Affliction as a whole.
Curse of Exhaustion remains in its **** poor state, and Improved Fear + CoEx will be a required talent point investment for Affliction PvP.
Malediction is a buff, but tree is still obscenely bloated.
Master Conjuror even still being in the tree is an insult.
Health Funnel change is decent, but it needs pushback resistance added to the talent.
Imp. Succubus will possibly see use in Destro PvP now that it's instant when specced for.
Demonic Brutality is a buff for Demo locks, considering some people level as Demo, and people have been wanting Felguard buffs for a long time.
Meta buff is NICE for PvP.
Edited, Sep 18th 2008 1:05pm by wingsofscion
you can't really compare chaotic mind to surge of light... the priest one allows your next crappy smite (kinda equivilant to our searing pain) to be instant cast and can't crit... soulfire on the otherhand is (currently) the most powerful direct damage spell in the game and HOPEFULLY they'll also un-nerf the +dmg(SP) coefficient for it as it really didn't need to be nerfed to a 100% +dmg from 170%...(pyroblast is more powerful once you take the dot and possible ignite dot into account, also the fact that pyroblasts +dmg coefficient wasn't nerfed while soulfire's was... but purely for direct damage, soulfire is teh w1n)
also the other destro changes.. chaos bolt affected by SnF talent, also it's had a large increase in its damage range and it's gone from a 2second cast to a 2.5, so increasing its +dmg(SP) coefficient to the same as incinerate, and seeing as it's the same cast time as incinerate and similar mana cost now.. it's basically just a really OP version of incinerate with a proc that has a 24% chance to occur every time you cast chaos bolt, so with the way the spell rotation is likely to work.. you'll be getting a proc roughly once per minute
Edited, Sep 18th 2008 3:26pm by Jenovaomega
also the other destro changes.. chaos bolt affected by SnF talent, also it's had a large increase in its damage range and it's gone from a 2second cast to a 2.5, so increasing its +dmg(SP) coefficient to the same as incinerate, and seeing as it's the same cast time as incinerate and similar mana cost now.. it's basically just a really OP version of incinerate with a proc that has a 24% chance to occur every time you cast chaos bolt, so with the way the spell rotation is likely to work.. you'll be getting a proc roughly once per minute
Edited, Sep 18th 2008 3:26pm by Jenovaomega
Eh, well, SoL wouldn't be bad if they gave Holy DPS a good look and gave them a Ruin talent (seriously, this would make me happy by making Smite DPS viable in a raid encounter). Smite is actually pretty damn good DPS (especially considering they rolled Sanctity Aura into all Holy spells). Still, SoL removes mana cost and cast time (and CM would have gone a step further and removed shard cost), so it is fairly comparable in the same light.
Right now, though, regarding Soul Fire and the Chaotic Mind proc, it's already being removed. It's nice to have some controlled burst as Destruction, especially in any PvP situation, but they're not giving it to us, sadly.
In terms of Pyro vs. Soul Fire, Pyro does less up front damage; the reason it wasn't nerfed as badly is because of the DoT. In any case, I'm just glad they removed the cooldown.
Right now, though, regarding Soul Fire and the Chaotic Mind proc, it's already being removed. It's nice to have some controlled burst as Destruction, especially in any PvP situation, but they're not giving it to us, sadly.
In terms of Pyro vs. Soul Fire, Pyro does less up front damage; the reason it wasn't nerfed as badly is because of the DoT. In any case, I'm just glad they removed the cooldown.
it may have removed cast time, but not the GCD. end result is the same, 1.5 second cast becomes a 1.5 second GCD. the only difference is the mana cost (but does that make up for the lack of crit?). CM does mana cost, shard requirement AND actually makes a difference on cast times (4seconds/6seconds untalented, becomes 1.5 seconds GCD... BIG difference) hence why they're not comparable(yes, this is the annoying perfectionist in me going mad at silly mistakes by others)
That's the exact same reason I don't spec Nightfall. :) As for making up the crit... well, not sure. I think that it is said that 34% crit (after talents) is optimal for Smite spec. You gain one smite off after 4 SoL procs (talented, it's a 2s cast). I'm not going to number crunch atm, because there are a LOT of variables to consider. Still, it's common conception that a Ruin-esque talent would make Smite a viable raid spec, since Holy Fire, Smite and Holy Nova can all crit, but the only damage modifiers they get are base spell damage modifiers from the Discipline and Holy trees, and then Searing Light.
See this talent build: http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=bEG0zhxtrxo0boZcgt0bbqb (the only reason I included Desperate Prayer was because of the possibility of its need when healers are stressed for other things) There is, sadly, no talent for 100% crit damage like all other caster DPS classes. Yeah, I advocate Holy DPS. :P This build, though, is a Wrath build that seems to make sense to me. Current smite build is 34/27.
In any case, they're removing CM anyway.
And I'm still pissed about the Amp. Curse nerf.
See this talent build: http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=bEG0zhxtrxo0boZcgt0bbqb (the only reason I included Desperate Prayer was because of the possibility of its need when healers are stressed for other things) There is, sadly, no talent for 100% crit damage like all other caster DPS classes. Yeah, I advocate Holy DPS. :P This build, though, is a Wrath build that seems to make sense to me. Current smite build is 34/27.
In any case, they're removing CM anyway.
And I'm still pissed about the Amp. Curse nerf.
nightfall is worth specing;... 1.5 sec GCD is much better than a 2.5-3 second cast. nightfall is very worthwhile having. also what you mean, 'removing CM'? I haven't found anything about that yet. can you link a blue post?
It's all over the US lock forums so I'm sure I can find it easily enough for you at some point.
But Nightfall isn't worth speccing to me, because of Intensity. I have a 41/0/20 spec with 5/5 SE and 3/3 Malediction, as well, so I can't fit it in. The math has shown that's it's a marginal increase in DPS, as well, so yeah. Plus it annoys me when it procs, cos it always does it at the wrong times (same goes with Backlash, actually, but that has a crit modifier, so I'm ok with taking it).
Edit - Found it almost right away:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=10043216462&pageNo=1&sid=2000#18
Edited, Sep 19th 2008 1:39pm by wingsofscion
But Nightfall isn't worth speccing to me, because of Intensity. I have a 41/0/20 spec with 5/5 SE and 3/3 Malediction, as well, so I can't fit it in. The math has shown that's it's a marginal increase in DPS, as well, so yeah. Plus it annoys me when it procs, cos it always does it at the wrong times (same goes with Backlash, actually, but that has a crit modifier, so I'm ok with taking it).
Edit - Found it almost right away:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=10043216462&pageNo=1&sid=2000#18
Edited, Sep 19th 2008 1:39pm by wingsofscion
that sucks :(
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