so, i really can't wait to get on again and see how this is working now, but from what i'm reading on the beta forums Blizz did a hotfix to cause JotW to return 20% max mana to the casting pally in addition to the replenishment effect... this is absolutely amazing to me and much more than really expected. as much move as we're seeing towards holy and prot and now this for Ret, i really am starting to beleive that blizz was serious when they said they want every spec of every class to be fun to play... certainly all 3 pally specs are looking like they'll be a ton of fun and much more interactive than they are in BC. now i'm just curious if the current reduced damage from judgements is permanent or just playing with numbers. even as it is though, assuming the other classes aren't tuned way past us in dps, i'm very happy with what i see.
one last thing i'd love to see, but might be more than is realistic for this Xpac would be for Holy pallies to be encouraged to melee more for group benefit and even to somehow strengthen their ability to heal. that would feel much more like he holy pally i thought i was making 3 years ago... they've done a lot for holy pallies so far though so i'll be content if this doesn't happen.
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I heard that Blizz thinks the latest Beacon is a little OP. Not sure how this will fare for a Beacon build. I guess we'll have to wait and see.
Also, if Blizz really wants Healadins to melee, then they had better really buff up our health and survivability. Plate or not, we are all squishy to heroic or raid mobs. Not to mention bosses.....yikes. AoE silences....yikes. AoE damage in general....yikes.
If Healadins are to become melee healers, then our spells also need to be more focused on instant casts. Not just making Holy Shock used a bit more and an occasional instant cast (which is all I've seen so far). I'm talking like making FoL instant. Since it causes the GCD, it could still only be spammed every 1.5 seconds. But, we would be able to cast it reliably while taking damage.
Also, if Blizz really wants Healadins to melee, then they had better really buff up our health and survivability. Plate or not, we are all squishy to heroic or raid mobs. Not to mention bosses.....yikes. AoE silences....yikes. AoE damage in general....yikes.
If Healadins are to become melee healers, then our spells also need to be more focused on instant casts. Not just making Holy Shock used a bit more and an occasional instant cast (which is all I've seen so far). I'm talking like making FoL instant. Since it causes the GCD, it could still only be spammed every 1.5 seconds. But, we would be able to cast it reliably while taking damage.
every time you swing at a mob it knocks .5 sec off your next cast and adds a 10% HoT (has to be enough to make up for the fact you are not spamming heals). Stackable 5 times (2.5 sec and 50% HoT)
every time you swing at a mob it causes your next holy shock to bounce to an additional target. Stackable 5 times.
AoE SoL/JoL procs would help too
you now have a melee holy pally.
Edit: forgot to mention that this was just a random idea.
Edited, Sep 9th 2008 2:28pm by RuenBahamut
every time you swing at a mob it causes your next holy shock to bounce to an additional target. Stackable 5 times.
AoE SoL/JoL procs would help too
you now have a melee holy pally.
Edit: forgot to mention that this was just a random idea.
Edited, Sep 9th 2008 2:28pm by RuenBahamut
I approve of letting Holy Palys be more melee oriented healers :) If that were the case, I might even actually CHOOSE to play Holy once in a while, not be so against doing so. I find healing very boring, but on the rare occasion I was Holy, I tried to expand my role by keeping up a Judgement and crazy melee stuff like that ;) Only real fun I ever had healing is when I put myself in melee. My raids didn't mind either cause I was smart about it, still did my job, plus that little extra. I know most guilds, particularly high end ones, wouldn't have approved, but meh: it was fun.
I've been saying for a long time now too that Paladins should be melee healers: with melee oriented set bonuses, ability to keep up a Judgement, etc.. Would be nice to actually have that as a truly viable option.
I've been saying for a long time now too that Paladins should be melee healers: with melee oriented set bonuses, ability to keep up a Judgement, etc.. Would be nice to actually have that as a truly viable option.
So if a Healadin spec'd into Ret for JoW now, they would get back 20% of their mana pool per judgement? If Judgements are still on a 10s CD, then you could get 20% of your mana back every 10 seconds??? If you had a 10k mana pool, that is 2k mana every 10 seconds.
If that is correct, I can see every Healadin spec'ing for this. You will never ever ever go oom. Even if you do...just judge and you're back on. wow!
If that is correct, I can see every Healadin spec'ing for this. You will never ever ever go oom. Even if you do...just judge and you're back on. wow!
YJMark wrote:
So if a Healadin spec'd into Ret for JoW now, they would get back 20% of their mana pool per judgement? If Judgements are still on a 10s CD, then you could get 20% of your mana back every 10 seconds??? If you had a 10k mana pool, that is 2k mana every 10 seconds.
If that is correct, I can see every Healadin spec'ing for this. You will never ever ever go oom. Even if you do...just judge and you're back on. wow!
If that is correct, I can see every Healadin spec'ing for this. You will never ever ever go oom. Even if you do...just judge and you're back on. wow!
Except that his healing would suck. Because, you know, this is after repentance IIRC.
Quote:
Because, you know, this is after repentance IIRC
What do you mean? I'm not following the "Repentance" statement.
why not have the holy pally beating on the guy he wants to heal, like say the beacon, so you can melee that guy and your damge you deal to the beacon turns to healing.... just a random idea. probably won`t work.
Er, Holy Paladins arent supposed to melee, where are we getting this idea from?
Holy Paladins get long-range Judgement spells, they don't have to go into melee range to cast them anymore.
Holy Paladins get long-range Judgement spells, they don't have to go into melee range to cast them anymore.
we know sinstralis.... but paladins are meant to be melee.... holy is the one spec that is contrary to the paladin of lore. it's been thrown around that it would be fun if blizz added some sort of ability or incentive for holy pallies to melee to bring back the feeling of playing a paladin and not just a priest w/o aoe/hot heals.... doubtful that it would happen, but it'd be fun.
Sinstralis wrote:
Er, Holy Paladins arent supposed to melee, where are we getting this idea from?
It's a cool idea. We're going nuts with it.
I don't know about you guys, but it looks to me like Ret is going to be the "paladin of lore". Most paladins in other games have very small heals as a kind of out of combat healer or emergency healer while still having melee damage and being able to take a hit or two. To me, ret seems to be like this, being able to heal with divine storm and near-instant FoL that can proc Sheath of Light for more healing. Plus, can still drop holy lights since attack power is getting converted into spell power.
At the same time they have to keep paladins as a viable main healer, which holy is. Main healers in video games tend to stand back with the other casters and heal, staying out of aoe and melee range. Holy gets all the heavy healing talents while ret gets talents to help as an offhealer, which is what I've always used paladins for ever since Final Fantasy 2.
Edited, Sep 20th 2008 2:23am by Zeynothix
At the same time they have to keep paladins as a viable main healer, which holy is. Main healers in video games tend to stand back with the other casters and heal, staying out of aoe and melee range. Holy gets all the heavy healing talents while ret gets talents to help as an offhealer, which is what I've always used paladins for ever since Final Fantasy 2.
Edited, Sep 20th 2008 2:23am by Zeynothix
zepoodle wrote:
Sinstralis wrote:
Er, Holy Paladins arent supposed to melee, where are we getting this idea from?
It's a cool idea. We're going nuts with it.
The idea that paladin healers should avoid melee is a relic of the WoW combat mechanics. There's nothing in Blizzard lore, or the lore for other games, or the source materials in fiction that say it has to be this way.
We're trying to envision ways the mechanics could be different. Ways in which paladins - a plate-wearing class that melees in the other two specs - can have a synergy between melee and healing so that it is encouraged, rather than discouraged, by the game mechanics.
ElMuneco wrote:
The idea that paladin healers should avoid melee is a relic of the WoW combat mechanics. There's nothing in Blizzard lore, or the lore for other games, or the source materials in fiction that say it has to be this way.
We're trying to envision ways the mechanics could be different. Ways in which paladins - a plate-wearing class that melees in the other two specs - can have a synergy between melee and healing so that it is encouraged, rather than discouraged, by the game mechanics.
We're trying to envision ways the mechanics could be different. Ways in which paladins - a plate-wearing class that melees in the other two specs - can have a synergy between melee and healing so that it is encouraged, rather than discouraged, by the game mechanics.
Exactly.
I've always thought that Holy Paladins should be a front line healer, nto a back of the pack healer: combat medic if you will. Many set bonuses have revolved around Judgement or being in melee somehow, we wear plate so can take a bit more of a beating, and even the earlier stuff had a mix of melee stats and healing stats.
I think though that even if Blizzard made changes to encourage Paladins to heal from the front lines I doubt many people would do it. Much the same way that Paladins and Druids were made raid viable MTs, but many guilds still chose to use a Warrior regardless. Out of habit, tradition, whatever.
I still think it would be awesome to heal in the front lines. There are a few things that make it more viable (as others have said), but it is still nowhere near where it needs to be to make it really happen.
The addition of instants make it better. The armor makes it better. The reduced threat makes it better. But a spam healer can not really be a melee healer. Melee healers need to be mobile to avoid damage. You can't do that if you're spamming heals. HoTs are more tuned to melee healing.
The addition of instants make it better. The armor makes it better. The reduced threat makes it better. But a spam healer can not really be a melee healer. Melee healers need to be mobile to avoid damage. You can't do that if you're spamming heals. HoTs are more tuned to melee healing.
Instant-cast AoE heal. 10yard range.
Done. Melee healer.
Done. Melee healer.
An instant aoe heal that can me used in melee? Would be even better to add a damage component to it, make it a real meleeing healer type spell. And we all know that players would expect some kind of synergy between the damage done and the healing done, otherwise you're just casting holy nova or circle of healing. Maybe something like this this would work
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