I apologize as I'm sure this was asked previously, but I can't find it. My question is this, how is Lacerate incorpated into the tank rotation. As I just started tanking instances and will be getting Lacerate soon I want to use it right. I'm hoping it the answer I need to improving my holding aggro. I tanked UB tonight and things went fairly well except there were times I had trouble grabbing and hold aggro.
Thanks in advance.
Hakana
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Assuming your tanking 1 at a time and the rest are CC'd, open with Mangle. Lacerate, lacerate, lacerate, mangle.
In that order. The 3 lacerates are your attacks while Mangle is on cd. Use Maul when rage is above 50 or you know you wont go rage empty.
Multi mob tanking substitute Lacerate for swipe sometimes and tab target the 2nd mob for a lacerate every now and again. Mangle the main kill target till you have enough threat so you wont loss aggro then switch to next target.
For pulling more than one use Starfire on X and switch to skull while casting. Moonfire skull. Shift and do as above.
When pulling feel free to pop Enrage. The extra rage helps. If you know you will be only tanking 1 mob pop it and wait for the debuff to expire then pull. Or if survival isn't an issue fight with the debuff for extra rage.
In that order. The 3 lacerates are your attacks while Mangle is on cd. Use Maul when rage is above 50 or you know you wont go rage empty.
Multi mob tanking substitute Lacerate for swipe sometimes and tab target the 2nd mob for a lacerate every now and again. Mangle the main kill target till you have enough threat so you wont loss aggro then switch to next target.
For pulling more than one use Starfire on X and switch to skull while casting. Moonfire skull. Shift and do as above.
When pulling feel free to pop Enrage. The extra rage helps. If you know you will be only tanking 1 mob pop it and wait for the debuff to expire then pull. Or if survival isn't an issue fight with the debuff for extra rage.
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idiggory wrote:
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Until WotLK, cookie cutter feral spec has a few points to spare. I use them to get 3/3 Intensity. With Furor and Intensity, you can start every pull with a minimum of 40 rage. Rather than still have Enrage ticking when the mobs get to me(and the 17% armor debuff that goes with it), I shift, pop Enrage, let it tick, and pull with FFF. If anything crits, you have enough rage for 3 swipes for tanking 2 or 3 targets. For single target pulls, 40 rage is enough to queue Maul, then Mangle, and Lacerate.
As for rotations, use Lacerate to fill in between Mangle. (Mangle, Lacerate, Lacerate, Lacerate, Mangle...) Watch the mob for when FF and Demo Roar are about to expire, renew them in place of a Lacerate. I use Maul when I get over 40 Rage, but raid bosses hit harder bosses on heroic and normal, so I'm never short on rage.
As for rotations, use Lacerate to fill in between Mangle. (Mangle, Lacerate, Lacerate, Lacerate, Mangle...) Watch the mob for when FF and Demo Roar are about to expire, renew them in place of a Lacerate. I use Maul when I get over 40 Rage, but raid bosses hit harder bosses on heroic and normal, so I'm never short on rage.
Mangle > Lacerate > Lacerate > Lacerate > Mangle > Lacerate > Lacerate > Swipe > Mangle > Lacerate > Demo Roar > Swipe > Mangle > Lacerate > Swipe > Swipe > Mangle > Lacerate > Swipe > Swipe. Continue Mangle > Lacerate > Swipe > Swipe until dead.
I have noticed that some people in this thread have said to continue to use lacerate after you have a whole stack of it, but this is not optimal. If you spam lacerate between mangles, lacerate will not tick, and because of this, swiping instead of lacerating (except to refresh the stack) is better. That rotation up there was assuming that nothing missed, but if you miss a lacerate you need to keep hitting lacerate until the stack gets refreshed, even if mangle is off of cooldown. Keeping that full lacerate stack up is more important than mangling 1.5-3 seconds sooner.
Also, if you are low on rage, simply stop swiping. If multiple enemies are attacking you and you are too low on rage to do this rotation, you either got a (un)lucky string of dodges or vastly outgear the content you are on. If one enemy is attacking you and you are low on rage, swipe isn't really that important.
This rotation is flexible to your needs; if one of the other targets is about to break off, lacerate it instead of swiping. I find it incredibly easy to tank doing this.
On a side note, Diamond Threat Meter is phenomenal for tanking. It shows your threat on your current target (and raid members' threat compared to yours in percent and actual threat value) along with how close raid or party members are to pulling aggro on all enemies who you have threat towards (in a different window). It also shows the threat of people who don't have it installed. I find it vastly superior to omen.
I have noticed that some people in this thread have said to continue to use lacerate after you have a whole stack of it, but this is not optimal. If you spam lacerate between mangles, lacerate will not tick, and because of this, swiping instead of lacerating (except to refresh the stack) is better. That rotation up there was assuming that nothing missed, but if you miss a lacerate you need to keep hitting lacerate until the stack gets refreshed, even if mangle is off of cooldown. Keeping that full lacerate stack up is more important than mangling 1.5-3 seconds sooner.
Also, if you are low on rage, simply stop swiping. If multiple enemies are attacking you and you are too low on rage to do this rotation, you either got a (un)lucky string of dodges or vastly outgear the content you are on. If one enemy is attacking you and you are low on rage, swipe isn't really that important.
This rotation is flexible to your needs; if one of the other targets is about to break off, lacerate it instead of swiping. I find it incredibly easy to tank doing this.
On a side note, Diamond Threat Meter is phenomenal for tanking. It shows your threat on your current target (and raid members' threat compared to yours in percent and actual threat value) along with how close raid or party members are to pulling aggro on all enemies who you have threat towards (in a different window). It also shows the threat of people who don't have it installed. I find it vastly superior to omen.
Swipe doesn't start to beat Lacerate spam until T5 or T6, depending on just how many melee buffs get stacked on your bear tank. I think the break even point is around 2500 AP in bear.
AstarintheDruid wrote:
Swipe doesn't start to beat Lacerate spam until T5 or T6, depending on just how many melee buffs get stacked on your bear tank. I think the break even point is around 2500 AP in bear.
Are you sure that the extra threat from lacerate ticking doesn't make up for swipe generating less threat by itself? I would still use what I posted anyway, as it is a rare pull that you are tanking only one thing.
anonymosity wrote:
AstarintheDruid wrote:
Swipe doesn't start to beat Lacerate spam until T5 or T6, depending on just how many melee buffs get stacked on your bear tank. I think the break even point is around 2500 AP in bear.
Are you sure that the extra threat from lacerate ticking doesn't make up for swipe generating less threat by itself? I would still use what I posted anyway, as it is a rare pull that you are tanking only one thing.
The majority of threat from Lacerate comes from the initial damage, not the DoT. Blizzard did this in patch 2.1 because undead, mechanical, and elemental mobs didn't bleed until recently.
The guys in the Feral Druid mega thread at Elitist Jerks use Rawr for the most part, so I trust the numbers I get from it. Rawr gives a TPS value for 4 different rotations: 1-3-0 (1 Mangle, 3 lacerate, 0 swipe), 1-0-3, 1-1-2, and 2-1-5. Depending on crit, Armor Pen, and AP, 1-3-0 is ahead until around 2400-2500 AP. I have around 17-1800 AP unbuffed in bear, so it takes a lot more AP than your average 70 druid brings for any rotation including Swipe to beat Lacerate x3.
I guess I was mistaken, I thought lacerate's dot did quite a bit of threat. But if we are talking about the average 70 in the average group, then tanking single targets should be incredibly easy, and worrying about maximizing threat shouldn't be an issue at all. The only time tanking becomes difficult is against multiple targets. 1-3-0 may be better for single targets, but 1-1-2 is more than enough for them, and much better for multiple targets. Thanks for the info about lacerate, though.
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