Art of War - Did you know?Follow

Right because arena players are idiots right? Is it awesome, game breaking? Not quite. But it has some very good uses. Also, LOL@Double Stun part. Lrn2AoQ the later stun?

Sorry for misspelling it, it's BoF anyway. I know the CD (I don't remember if they changed GF). Oh and Rogues have cooldown on stuns as well as a CP reqs on one. I recommend you watch Mobywan and watch his Arena fights, he uses BoP to break *ONE STUN* and it wins games for their team. Yes you can be ignorant of other classes game mechanics, but that won't make you a good player.

Also that logic (no offense if I was hostile for the earlier part of the post I didn't mean it, but here I do):


Are you being thick on purpose? its an ESCAPE MECHANISM IF ANYTHING! When the rogue starts locking down your healer with stuns you BoF him and give him breathing room. Yes the rogue can restun LATER, and I can BoF him AGAIN, actually WATCH ANY HIGH END ARENA VIDEO! Any one class that has stuns will use that to finish a game. I am saving a a squishy healer a possible trinket, or if the trinekts have been used I am saving the other person on my team from dying. It's pretty ******* awesome.


"Bubble is uesless cause the rogue is jsut gonna wait 12 seconds to hurt you again, duh :oD :oP.

I will go ahead and say this is a pure Arena/WSG talent, it has use in large-scale PvP but not so much. FOR Arena though it is truly game-changing for Ret, there is no other class that can remove stuns in that manner and now Ret can do it in two different ways while at the same time dispelling the inevitable Crippling Poison/Hamstring.

In 3v3 I expect it to have a tremendous impact in countering Rogue stunlock comps, specifically 3DPS teams that rely on CCing the healer and focus-firing the weakest DPS.

What it does is allow Ret to change the flow of games, something it couldnt do quite so well before. Standard strategies will no longer work against AoW Ret teams because that stunlock can no longer be relied upon and Freedom has a short enough CD to be used several times a fight.

Although I don't Arena with a Rogue my guildmate does, and he tells me the only way around it is to burn Blind early on the newly BoF'd healer, which will change the balance of the fight from then on.

There is a blindingly simple solution ofc.

If it's useful to you: *click the talent 3 times*. If it isn't, you have 3 extra talents points for whatever you prefer doing. A pve ret would probably prefer to buy Swift Retribution instead, so the raid gets 3% free haste.

If you think it's useless to you (and to anyone outside a ret paladin who primarily does arena it will be) just don't take it. Did you pick up imp. retribution aura, while bemoaning it's absolute awfulness? I don't think so!

edit: @sinstralis: I would argue rets can already change the flow of the game to a certain extent. If you're being focused in a 3v3, you can bubble and force the enemy to do a hard target switch. You mentioned blinding a healer, BoP removes physical effects, of which blind is one of many (and BoP will be going up on your healer sooner or later anyway). Warrior getting shattered? Freedom! Affliction warlock ruining your day? Make sure to repentence UA, and then work in two cleanses on their target after each white hit > CS. The reason ret paladins go well on 3v3 and 5v5 teams instead of yet another cleave warrior or rogue is our ability to thwart enemy strats, and protect teammates reactively while still doing incredible burst damage.

Edited, Sep 8th 2008 8:58am by ArtemisEnteri

Something more useful may be something like:

BoF gives a HoT to the recipient.

BoF Increases movement speed by 10% for 5 seconds.

Lose the BoF bit and have (say) 3/7/10% damage reduction reduction instead.

Tommy, with regard to the damage reduction/survivability 3% is not going to do much e.g. at 10k health getting hit for 2.5k per hit you would have something like 300hp left (maths?!?) in the world of burst damage 3% isnt much. If this were combined with imp RF then you get 9% which is reasonable to be fair but I am not sure how the build would work.

As I have said, those in high arena teams will probably knock one out over it but to me its just....meh. I also said in a different post that I would not go with it so no need to worry there.

Maybe I got it all wrong, I arena but my team rating is c1200 as I do it with a mate who is not very good at it (also no vent, mods etc) so I can actually say I arena
solo most of the time.

I don't want to get into a mass flaming session as that does not add value to anything, I was stating that it appears a meh talent and a poor replacement for what it was, I dont think that anyone would prefer the new one if they could keep the old one - compare unstunning you healer to oneshotting each of the opposing team.

If you see what I mean

shall i list ALL the talents that give you 3% crit, heal, dmg, mit, resist, or haste? then you'll tell me they are all junk?

its like a half of a talent that gives me 2 epic stam gems...sign me up.

I would contest that I am arrogant as you state as I raised a valid question/statement, which could have been answered:

'I see where you are comming from but it seems to be targetted for arena use where removing a stun can really help. True outside of this there is little use for it but from an arena perspective its good because you can save BoP for when he gets stunned again'

But no, you sort of said 'Goddam noob l2p,dont call arena players stupid rawr'

I don't see how my 1.2k rating speaks much volume considering we have only arena'd for a couple of weeks and for the first time as well, I think that we have done 60 matches and did 20/week for 2 of them. The 4th season is well underway and is full of people who have done S1, 2 and 3 who all have full S3. Also as I have stated I have done most of them solo really, though my arena friend is starting to think about enjoying it and getting stuck in a bit more.

With regard to the 2k rating, lots of people do not understand how the rating system works and you see a lot of 'If you are not 2k rated then you don't know 5hit and we aren't gonna listen to you n00b.' The system is based on the top fractions of percentages. There are not many players at the 2k rating as you would need to be in the top percentile of your battlegroup, which contains c12-15 servers (realms) in each.

The arena rating system is similar to the system used for chess and to put it in perspective, a 2k-2.2k rating would be the equivelent of Garry Kasparov in his prime. He beat a supercomputer SPECIFICALLY designed to play chess
in this instance people are saying 'Unless you can also beat a supercomputer at chess then you are a scrub'

Another equivelent is earning over £500,000 (c$1,000,000) a year. 'If you earn less that that you are a noob'

My comment about being unemployed is not arrogant although I accept that I could have phrased it better but the few people I know who have a very high arena rating have a rich family and so don't need to work, are on gap years from university and out of work.

I did not intend it as a sweeping generalisation its just the time (practice) effort to reach high ratings (see above) indicates someone who is able to dedicate sufficent time to do so.

Incidentally you and Tommy have helped my understanding of it in a round about way as I can see why such a talent could be useful, though I still think that its not so good for talent point investment. I agree though that 10-17k judgements were a bit too much but could have been tweaked rather than being replaced.

It should be renamed from 'Art of War' (which is not really appropriate anymore) to 'Unstun your healer so he can get killed a couple of yards to the left instead'

By the way your comment about not being able to afford a headset is not true, I have 2 headsets but my wife thinks I spend enough time looking at the game, if I were to start talking to it as well then she would (old) AoW me.

I still think that it could have been made more useful, such as the speed increase idea.

I have been looking at the new AoW and messing around with a few talents and have come up with this:

http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=sZih0hxZxbxtbcuAIs0zIo

Ignore most of the other talent placements as I was looking at maximising damage reduction and mitigation and with the core ones the pally would be a fair bit harder to kill.

Anticipation - 5% dodge
Stoicism - -30% stun duration
Imp RF - -6% damage
Toughness +10% Armour and 50% reduction to movement impairing effects
Deflection - %5 parry
PoJ - -2% to being hit with spells
Divine Purpose - -3% to being hit with spells and melee + 30% reduction in slowing effects
Art of War - 3% damage and some rubbish about removing stuns :P

so you have:

9% damage reduction
13% increased avoidance (melee)
+10% armour
-2% for spells hitting you
80% impairment reduction

Some rough calcs I did earlier showed that the avoidance and damage reduction equates to about -25% incoming damage excluding normal dodge,parry etc.

So although it may be quite good with a combination of other talents.


I still think it could have been better, lets see in live

Indidentally my mate is a warrior, also dunno but this last week we have got to about 1400 so maybe it was a dip you get when you first start? he is also getting a bit more into it.

Incidentally while doing some arena last night I thought about it a bit more and when my warrior partner got lolstunned by a rogue I though that it would have been handy to remove it (even as my CS took the rogues leg off), if the rogue had low enough health my warrior friend could have used Execute.

So thinking about it and looking at it a bit more perhaps I was a bit ot in condemning it and I can accept that I was wrong in this case and I actually look forward to giving it a go and seeing how it works.

We are all allowed to be a bit noobish at times. I will report myself to my T5/6 guildmaster for noob punishment.

Cheers all