http://www.mmo-champion.com
new warrior glyphs near the bottom of the top post. also, new talent calculator posted with the latest changes.
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warrior
prot pvp is actually looking really really fun. its sorta reliant on having a rogue, hunter, or other warrior in for a healing debuff, but the control aspects of it are pretty sweet. plus damage shield makes rogues cry.
edit 9-10-08
new talent build up on beta. the major changes include:
enrage/wrecking crew damage % reduced to 10% at 5 talent points (dk's and ret pallies got a similar treatment; their vengeance/bloody vengeance now stacks up to three times for 3% damage increase per stack, 9% net total).
titans grip nerfed! huge nerf. makes it unplayable now. the tooltip now lists a -15% chance to hit on all special attacks that require a weapon. thats everything except bloodthirst. this puts the raiding +hit% requirement for fury warriors at +21% after precision, or a grand total of 689 hit rating at 80, so bye bye fury pve! in terms of fury pvp....yeah, its dead too. 17% chance after talents to miss specials vs an equal level target is too ridiculous to even consider countering via +hit in pvp. warriors would be all +hit and nothing else, just to land a hamstring thats going to have half duration on a good number of classes.
new talent in prot: Improved Spell Reflection. Reduces the chance you'll be hit by spells by 2/4%, reduces the cooldown of your Spell Reflection ability by 2/5 seconds and when the ability is used it will reflect the first spell cast against the 2/4 closest party members.
in sum - arms is still the same. very "meh". fury went from "wow, almost done" to "MOMMY WHY DO THEY KEEP BEATING THE POOR MAN?! HE'S NOT MOVING ANYMORE!" and prot just plain got stronger.
Edited, Sep 10th 2008 8:22pm by Quor
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I was too of the impression that Prot is getting stuff that would be great for PvP. It looks to me like they're trying to put talents for PvP viability in all specs.
The main problem I see in it isn't the lack of antiheals, but the lack of DPS. When you're in a group and fighting a group of targets the "tanky" targets with low DPS become ignored as if their damage was a manned DoT or something.
With some work the prot warrior in PvP it might be capable of performing the role of tank or tackler. By maximizing your ability to debuff speccing into full Booming Voice, Imp Demo, Piercing Howl, Imp Thunderclap and Shockwave. For as long as you're around you can AoE debuff and AoE stun so hard they you'll either be a priority target or be reducing their combat abilities by a huge amount. Also by doing lots of intervene on your healers. In addition with Puncture + Focused Rage + Devastate you can scare people quite a bit by leaving them vulnerable with the sunders.
Damage Shield = Thorns. (almost). It's never been a game breaker. Rogues will however cry about Retal on the new cooldown, it's not going to kill them but they will cry a lot when they start having to stop because someone hit the "don't attack me" button. The power of this is that rogues will have to wait for the effect to fade, and cannot switch targets or will lose their combo points. Sweetness.
The charge talent was something I was hoping to see but not as a talent. IMO they should scrap charge, intercept and intervene and turn them into a single button that isn't stance dependent. It can be done via a script, but it would be ideal if they just fusion the spell.
I'm glad for heroic throw. I think all classes already have too many buttons and I'd like to see buttons going away by fusion of abilities or switching some actives to passive for all classes. But in the case of Heroic Throw this one probably becomes almost full substitute of ranged weapon skill. The ranged weapon is still there for times when you need to do more than 1 pull per minute.
I don't see fury as much of a PvP spec because comparing, Deep Arms has second wind and imp intercept while Deep Prot has Safeguard and Warbringer. What Deep Fury gets isn't going to outweigh that, no matter how much DPS it may get.
The mace spec I don't like it much, I'd prefer a straight +x% to damage with maces. After all that's what Armor Penetration does, increase damage by x%. However it's not bad, if you get a lot of ArP, you'll get more from this talent. But stuns were useful in that they stopped people from running and moving.
The main problem I see in it isn't the lack of antiheals, but the lack of DPS. When you're in a group and fighting a group of targets the "tanky" targets with low DPS become ignored as if their damage was a manned DoT or something.
With some work the prot warrior in PvP it might be capable of performing the role of tank or tackler. By maximizing your ability to debuff speccing into full Booming Voice, Imp Demo, Piercing Howl, Imp Thunderclap and Shockwave. For as long as you're around you can AoE debuff and AoE stun so hard they you'll either be a priority target or be reducing their combat abilities by a huge amount. Also by doing lots of intervene on your healers. In addition with Puncture + Focused Rage + Devastate you can scare people quite a bit by leaving them vulnerable with the sunders.
Damage Shield = Thorns. (almost). It's never been a game breaker. Rogues will however cry about Retal on the new cooldown, it's not going to kill them but they will cry a lot when they start having to stop because someone hit the "don't attack me" button. The power of this is that rogues will have to wait for the effect to fade, and cannot switch targets or will lose their combo points. Sweetness.
The charge talent was something I was hoping to see but not as a talent. IMO they should scrap charge, intercept and intervene and turn them into a single button that isn't stance dependent. It can be done via a script, but it would be ideal if they just fusion the spell.
I'm glad for heroic throw. I think all classes already have too many buttons and I'd like to see buttons going away by fusion of abilities or switching some actives to passive for all classes. But in the case of Heroic Throw this one probably becomes almost full substitute of ranged weapon skill. The ranged weapon is still there for times when you need to do more than 1 pull per minute.
I don't see fury as much of a PvP spec because comparing, Deep Arms has second wind and imp intercept while Deep Prot has Safeguard and Warbringer. What Deep Fury gets isn't going to outweigh that, no matter how much DPS it may get.
The mace spec I don't like it much, I'd prefer a straight +x% to damage with maces. After all that's what Armor Penetration does, increase damage by x%. However it's not bad, if you get a lot of ArP, you'll get more from this talent. But stuns were useful in that they stopped people from running and moving.
Yeah, I was expecting the big changes to the prot tree, but I'm surprised by the lack of change in the fury tree. I think it's looking pretty good overall, but I was expecting unending fury to change because it sucks. Especially now that the ability enraged assault is a heal rather than an attack. So, for 5 talent points, you get 5 fewer rage on your whirlwind, bloodthirst and cleave, and one of your abilities that is on a 3 minute cooldown will, 30% of the time, refresh the cooldown on an ability that is on a 6 second cooldown. That doesn't even make sense. Because, as it stands, you can stop at rampage and make it to trauma in arms or one-handed weapon specialization in prot. So....did I miss something somewhere? They are changing unending fury, right?
They pretty clearly haven't finished cleaning up Fury. They got part of the way there with cleaning up Arms but Bladestorm still needs to be changed rather massively.
Concise MMO-Champion List:
Arms
* Weapon Throw renamed to Heroic Throw. Now deals 50% of AP + 1 damage (instead of 100% of AP). Cast time changed from 0.5 sec to instant. Cooldown changed from 20 seconds to 1 minute.
* Thunder Clap damage has been increased by 50%
Talents
* Bladestorm now let you perform a whirlwind every 1 second for 6 seconds. (Old - Every 1.5 seconds for 6 seconds)
* Improved Mortal Strike doesn't affect Enraged Assault anymore.
* Mace Specialization changed to - Your attacks with maces ignore up to 3/6/9/12/15% of your opponent's armor.
Fury
Skills
* Enraged Assault changed to "You regenerate 30% of your total health over 10 sec. This ability consumes all Enrage effects and prevents any from affecting you for the full duration." (Old - A furious assault that consumes an Enrage effect on the warrior and attacks with all weapons. Can only be used while Enraged.)
Talents
* Furious Attacks changed to "Your normal melee attacks have a chance to reduce all healing done to the target by 25% for 10 sec. This can stack up to 2 times." (Old - 50/100% chance depending on rank, lasted 8 seconds.)
* Improved Whirlwind now increases the damage of your Whirlwind ability by 10/20%
Protection
Skills
* Shield Wall reduces all damage taken by 60% for 12 sec. (Old - 50%)
* Taunt cooldown changed from 10 to 8 seconds.
Talent
* Shockwave now deals [75% of AP] damage (up from 50%) but doesn't cause a high amount of threat anymore.
* Sword and Board changed to 3 ranks and now Increases the critical strike chance of your Devastate ability by 5/10/15% and when your Devastate ability deals damage it has a 10/20/30% (Old - 3/6/9/12/15%) chance of refreshing the cooldown of your Shield Slam ability and reducing its cost by 100% for 5 sec. (Old - Didn't increase critical strike chance of Devastate)
* Vitality now Increases your total Strength and Stamina by 2/4/6% (Old - 1/2/3%) and your Expertise by 6. (Old - Didn't affect expertise)
* Shield Mastery moved from Tier 6 to Tier 3 and changed from 3 point to 2 points. Now Increases your block value by 15/30% and reduces the cooldown of your Shield Block ability by 10/20 sec. (Old - 10/20% block value and didn't reduce cooldown)
* Improved Shield Wall renamed to Improved Disciplines. Now Reduces the cooldown of your Shield Wall, Retaliation and Recklessness abilities by 30/60 secs.
* Concussion Blow now deals [75% of AP] damage (up from 25%) but doesn't cause a high amount of threat anymore.
* Improved Disarm doesn't affect Shield Break anymore.
* Last Stand cooldown reduced from 6 minutes to 5 minutes.
* Rank 3 of Puncture has been re-added.
* Improved Taunt has been removed.
* Improved Shield Block has been removed.
* First rank of Improved Toughness now properly reduces the duration of all movement slowing effects by 10%. (Old - 20%)
* *New Talent* - Damage Shield (Tier 10) - Whenever you take damage from or block a melee attack you cause damage equal to 10/20% of your block value.
* *New Talent* - Warbringer - Your Charge ability is now usable while in combat and in any stance.
Heroic Throw is an interesting attack. If they give it a Snare I'll like it even more, like a single-target Avenger's Shield (or Deadly Throw, I suppose). It now also silences if you have the Prot talent, which will be nice in instances.
Charge is going to be stance-neutral, like Heroic Strike or Cleave, but it isn't yet. Once that's implemented Warbringer is going to be mildly insane, plus it'll make grinding easier.
They may have actually added too much scaling to Protection Warriors, but I'm not sure yet. Right now, though, Strength is scaling extremely well - think Protadin well - with the huge % modifier for Shockwave and Concussion Blow. They've also junked and consolidated talents into a lean, mean, tanking machine that I rather like.
Arms still needs work (to whit; make Pummel stance neutral and possibly Intercept or "Arms in Battle Stance" is a complete non-starter, Bladestorm needs fixing). Fury still needs some tweaks (talent consolidation - there's too many points in Intensify Rage and Bloodsurge, Heroic Leap is still bugged, Commanding Presence and Imp. Demo need to be combined) but it's looking up.
Concise MMO-Champion List:
Arms
* Weapon Throw renamed to Heroic Throw. Now deals 50% of AP + 1 damage (instead of 100% of AP). Cast time changed from 0.5 sec to instant. Cooldown changed from 20 seconds to 1 minute.
* Thunder Clap damage has been increased by 50%
Talents
* Bladestorm now let you perform a whirlwind every 1 second for 6 seconds. (Old - Every 1.5 seconds for 6 seconds)
* Improved Mortal Strike doesn't affect Enraged Assault anymore.
* Mace Specialization changed to - Your attacks with maces ignore up to 3/6/9/12/15% of your opponent's armor.
Fury
Skills
* Enraged Assault changed to "You regenerate 30% of your total health over 10 sec. This ability consumes all Enrage effects and prevents any from affecting you for the full duration." (Old - A furious assault that consumes an Enrage effect on the warrior and attacks with all weapons. Can only be used while Enraged.)
Talents
* Furious Attacks changed to "Your normal melee attacks have a chance to reduce all healing done to the target by 25% for 10 sec. This can stack up to 2 times." (Old - 50/100% chance depending on rank, lasted 8 seconds.)
* Improved Whirlwind now increases the damage of your Whirlwind ability by 10/20%
Protection
Skills
* Shield Wall reduces all damage taken by 60% for 12 sec. (Old - 50%)
* Taunt cooldown changed from 10 to 8 seconds.
Talent
* Shockwave now deals [75% of AP] damage (up from 50%) but doesn't cause a high amount of threat anymore.
* Sword and Board changed to 3 ranks and now Increases the critical strike chance of your Devastate ability by 5/10/15% and when your Devastate ability deals damage it has a 10/20/30% (Old - 3/6/9/12/15%) chance of refreshing the cooldown of your Shield Slam ability and reducing its cost by 100% for 5 sec. (Old - Didn't increase critical strike chance of Devastate)
* Vitality now Increases your total Strength and Stamina by 2/4/6% (Old - 1/2/3%) and your Expertise by 6. (Old - Didn't affect expertise)
* Shield Mastery moved from Tier 6 to Tier 3 and changed from 3 point to 2 points. Now Increases your block value by 15/30% and reduces the cooldown of your Shield Block ability by 10/20 sec. (Old - 10/20% block value and didn't reduce cooldown)
* Improved Shield Wall renamed to Improved Disciplines. Now Reduces the cooldown of your Shield Wall, Retaliation and Recklessness abilities by 30/60 secs.
* Concussion Blow now deals [75% of AP] damage (up from 25%) but doesn't cause a high amount of threat anymore.
* Improved Disarm doesn't affect Shield Break anymore.
* Last Stand cooldown reduced from 6 minutes to 5 minutes.
* Rank 3 of Puncture has been re-added.
* Improved Taunt has been removed.
* Improved Shield Block has been removed.
* First rank of Improved Toughness now properly reduces the duration of all movement slowing effects by 10%. (Old - 20%)
* *New Talent* - Damage Shield (Tier 10) - Whenever you take damage from or block a melee attack you cause damage equal to 10/20% of your block value.
* *New Talent* - Warbringer - Your Charge ability is now usable while in combat and in any stance.
Heroic Throw is an interesting attack. If they give it a Snare I'll like it even more, like a single-target Avenger's Shield (or Deadly Throw, I suppose). It now also silences if you have the Prot talent, which will be nice in instances.
Charge is going to be stance-neutral, like Heroic Strike or Cleave, but it isn't yet. Once that's implemented Warbringer is going to be mildly insane, plus it'll make grinding easier.
They may have actually added too much scaling to Protection Warriors, but I'm not sure yet. Right now, though, Strength is scaling extremely well - think Protadin well - with the huge % modifier for Shockwave and Concussion Blow. They've also junked and consolidated talents into a lean, mean, tanking machine that I rather like.
Arms still needs work (to whit; make Pummel stance neutral and possibly Intercept or "Arms in Battle Stance" is a complete non-starter, Bladestorm needs fixing). Fury still needs some tweaks (talent consolidation - there's too many points in Intensify Rage and Bloodsurge, Heroic Leap is still bugged, Commanding Presence and Imp. Demo need to be combined) but it's looking up.
RPZip wrote:
Heroic Throw is an interesting attack. If they give it a Snare I'll like it even more, like a single-target Avenger's Shield (or Deadly Throw, I suppose). It now also silences if you have the Prot talent, which will be nice in instances.
Charge is going to be stance-neutral, like Heroic Strike or Cleave, but it isn't yet. Once that's implemented Warbringer is going to be mildly insane, plus it'll make grinding easier.
They may have actually added too much scaling to Protection Warriors, but I'm not sure yet. Right now, though, Strength is scaling extremely well - think Protadin well - with the huge % modifier for Shockwave and Concussion Blow. They've also junked and consolidated talents into a lean, mean, tanking machine that I rather like.
Arms still needs work (to whit; make Pummel stance neutral and possibly Intercept or "Arms in Battle Stance" is a complete non-starter, Bladestorm needs fixing). Fury still needs some tweaks (talent consolidation - there's too many points in Intensify Rage and Bloodsurge, Heroic Leap is still bugged, Commanding Presence and Imp. Demo need to be combined) but it's looking up.
Charge is going to be stance-neutral, like Heroic Strike or Cleave, but it isn't yet. Once that's implemented Warbringer is going to be mildly insane, plus it'll make grinding easier.
They may have actually added too much scaling to Protection Warriors, but I'm not sure yet. Right now, though, Strength is scaling extremely well - think Protadin well - with the huge % modifier for Shockwave and Concussion Blow. They've also junked and consolidated talents into a lean, mean, tanking machine that I rather like.
Arms still needs work (to whit; make Pummel stance neutral and possibly Intercept or "Arms in Battle Stance" is a complete non-starter, Bladestorm needs fixing). Fury still needs some tweaks (talent consolidation - there's too many points in Intensify Rage and Bloodsurge, Heroic Leap is still bugged, Commanding Presence and Imp. Demo need to be combined) but it's looking up.
IMO, they should review all classes and start removing the "having many buttons that do the same thing".
Charge, Intercept and Intervene. Could become a single Friend/Foe discriminating spell. Like how Holy Shock can be targeted at friendlies or foes. Add "if you're not in combat produces X rage". Less buttons, cleaner UI.
What's up with the glyphs? I really want to see something that improves the duration of hamstring and rend.
Quote:
Improved Shield Wall renamed to Improved Disciplines. Now Reduces the cooldown of your Shield Wall, Retaliation and Recklessness abilities by 30/60 secs.
Well, I guess this frees up two more talent points for me.
Freakin' useless.
calindc wrote:
Quote:
Improved Shield Wall renamed to Improved Disciplines. Now Reduces the cooldown of your Shield Wall, Retaliation and Recklessness abilities by 30/60 secs.
Well, I guess this frees up two more talent points for me.
Freakin' useless.
All 3 abilities are now on a 5 min cooldown and do not share cooldowns.
With the talent you can use all 3 in a 4 min cooldown.
Not truly great, but not bad at all. I think it's specially good for BGs.
bumped with most recent talent push.
Improved Spell Reflect is just ridiculous and has aproximately zero chance of going live, ever. With a glyph you'd be a 3 second Grounding Totem that reflected the spell; without one you're at 5 seconds.
Uh, yeah.
You missed Devastate moving to 80% weapon damage instead of 50%, too. Enrage also now has a 30% chance to proc off normal hits, not just crits, which is actually nice even with the damage nerf.
Uh, yeah.
You missed Devastate moving to 80% weapon damage instead of 50%, too. Enrage also now has a 30% chance to proc off normal hits, not just crits, which is actually nice even with the damage nerf.
Quote:
titans grip nerfed! huge nerf. makes it unplayable now. the tooltip now lists a -15% chance to hit on all special attacks that require a weapon. thats everything except bloodthirst. this puts the raiding +hit% requirement for fury warriors at +21% after precision, or a grand total of 689 hit rating at 80, so bye bye fury pve! in terms of fury pvp....yeah, its dead too. 17% chance after talents to miss specials vs an equal level target is too ridiculous to even consider countering via +hit in pvp. warriors would be all +hit and nothing else, just to land a hamstring thats going to have half duration on a good number of classes.
Aw come on! -15% hit?! Give me my damn Allakhazam talent already! They should just leave it to dual wield 2-handers and ignore the 'counterbalance'. Not having MS or Second Wind should hurt enough to ***** it over for PvP... I suppose it's just the damn PvE that needs 'counterbalancing' =/.
Seeing as (if I even get my warrior to 60) I won't be using him for anything else than PvP and the ocassional instance, I can live with 3, 4, 5, 6% miss. But 15% just means I'm going to end up missing my bad *** swings more than hitting.
Edit: Gah, the evil mods filter out the name of one most (roundhouse)kick-*** cowboy.
Edited, Sep 11th 2008 3:56pm by Mozared
Mozared wrote:
Quote:
titans grip nerfed! huge nerf. makes it unplayable now. the tooltip now lists a -15% chance to hit on all special attacks that require a weapon. thats everything except bloodthirst. this puts the raiding +hit% requirement for fury warriors at +21% after precision, or a grand total of 689 hit rating at 80, so bye bye fury pve! in terms of fury pvp....yeah, its dead too. 17% chance after talents to miss specials vs an equal level target is too ridiculous to even consider countering via +hit in pvp. warriors would be all +hit and nothing else, just to land a hamstring thats going to have half duration on a good number of classes.
Aw come on! -15% hit?! Give me my damn Allakhazam talent already! They should just leave it to dual wield 2-handers and ignore the 'counterbalance'. Not having MS or Second Wind should hurt enough to ***** it over for PvP... I suppose it's just the damn PvE that needs 'counterbalancing' =/.
Seeing as (if I even get my warrior to 60) I won't be using him for anything else than PvP and the ocassional instance, I can live with 3, 4, 5, 6% miss. But 15% just means I'm going to end up missing my bad *** swings more than hitting.
Edit: Gah, the evil mods filter out the name of one most (roundhouse)kick-*** cowboy.
Edited, Sep 11th 2008 3:56pm by Mozared
Actually, if the truth be told, it's been nerfed so as not to be that imba for PvP. In PvE, it wasn't far and away the best damage dealing spec, it was just fine. Again, a fine example (if I'm right) of PvP balance ******** PvE over.
Oh well, it's not like it's going to affect a levelling build anyway ... we levelled just fine with a chance to miss specials all the way until we could find some +hit gear in outlands ... so we're not going to struggle there. Once you start raiding, you'll just simply find enough +hit gear and gems to make it worth your while (assuming it's ultimately worth your while)
TG was being out dpsed but DW arms before they nerfed it. Given all the changes to the trees thus far we are going to have arms as our pve dps tree and prot as our pvp and tank tree.
They really need to work with fury some more.
They really need to work with fury some more.
The problem with PvP was the insanely high burst you got out of 2/2 Imp. WW (+20% Damage) and TG. That's just stupidity on their part for changing WW to that version, though, and even then it truly was not as effective as you might have thought... especially with nerfed Furious Attacks.
It's completely dead for DPSing at the moment, although I'd imagine the TG nerf will be either revoked or significantly scaled back. Right now you get more damage out of skipping it.
It's completely dead for DPSing at the moment, although I'd imagine the TG nerf will be either revoked or significantly scaled back. Right now you get more damage out of skipping it.
ya, i missed the enrage changes. thats what i get for late night posting.
its funny, cause i remember ghostcrawler saying that "TG isn't supposed to be a hard decision" or something similar. well, currently, it isnt hard; if you go fury, you stop 44 points in, and the rest goes into arms or prot (or a bit in both). TG is ignored completely.
arms still needs loving, specifically resolving its bipolar stance-ism (that you posted about on the beta forums zip). im a big fan of your "blademaster" talent that lets 2h weapons function as a shield in terms of useable skills.
prot is pretty ridonkulus right now. the improved spell reflect will probably never see the light of day past another push or two, simply because its just so damn strong. but i like the idea of what theyre doing with the talent, so i hope the more innovative stuff (party shielding specifically) stays in, as well as the CD reduction.
edit:
found a funny comment about the "future" of warrior talent trees and how the new titans grip gives us some insight into that future:
http://www.war-tools.com/t58110.html
i found it worth a good chuckle. a rueful, slightly teary chuckle.
Edited, Sep 12th 2008 2:47am by Quor
its funny, cause i remember ghostcrawler saying that "TG isn't supposed to be a hard decision" or something similar. well, currently, it isnt hard; if you go fury, you stop 44 points in, and the rest goes into arms or prot (or a bit in both). TG is ignored completely.
arms still needs loving, specifically resolving its bipolar stance-ism (that you posted about on the beta forums zip). im a big fan of your "blademaster" talent that lets 2h weapons function as a shield in terms of useable skills.
prot is pretty ridonkulus right now. the improved spell reflect will probably never see the light of day past another push or two, simply because its just so damn strong. but i like the idea of what theyre doing with the talent, so i hope the more innovative stuff (party shielding specifically) stays in, as well as the CD reduction.
edit:
found a funny comment about the "future" of warrior talent trees and how the new titans grip gives us some insight into that future:
http://www.war-tools.com/t58110.html
i found it worth a good chuckle. a rueful, slightly teary chuckle.
Edited, Sep 12th 2008 2:47am by Quor
Can somebody clarify something for me ... the miss rate on TG, the wording is:
"Titan's Grip (Tier 11) now reduces your chance to hit with melee abilities that require weapons by 15%."
Now I've read and re-read this many times, and I still can't decide if it's in addition to the current base miss rate of 5% (against same level mobs) or if TG changes the base miss chance TO 15%.
What say y'all
"Titan's Grip (Tier 11) now reduces your chance to hit with melee abilities that require weapons by 15%."
Now I've read and re-read this many times, and I still can't decide if it's in addition to the current base miss rate of 5% (against same level mobs) or if TG changes the base miss chance TO 15%.
What say y'all
robertlofthouse wrote:
Can somebody clarify something for me ... the miss rate on TG, the wording is:
"Titan's Grip (Tier 11) now reduces your chance to hit with melee abilities that require weapons by 15%."
Now I've read and re-read this many times, and I still can't decide if it's in addition to the current base miss rate of 5% (against same level mobs) or if TG changes the base miss chance TO 15%.
What say y'all
"Titan's Grip (Tier 11) now reduces your chance to hit with melee abilities that require weapons by 15%."
Now I've read and re-read this many times, and I still can't decide if it's in addition to the current base miss rate of 5% (against same level mobs) or if TG changes the base miss chance TO 15%.
What say y'all
In addition to.
TG: nerf.
Enrage: more nerf.
Wrecking: more nerf.
Imp Spell reflect seems pretty good. Seems like the kind of thing that would make warriors hold threat in BGs. When a prot warrior spams Piercing Howl, Demo Shout, Thunder Clap and Imp spell reflect in PvP, someone is going to /yell "KILL THE F@$!@ WARRIOR PLZ".
On the other hand, it's probably going to make prot warriors imba 1v1 against casters, I say "probably" because you'd have to check the imba stuff the casters are already getting too. 1 spell every 5 seconds being thrown back at you is dangerous. Added to that is Devastate, the little special thing about it is that it sunders, and against cloth and leather (armor of most casters) that's a huge added damage.
In group v group I don't see it being soooooo much because it bounces back 1 spell every 5 sec. In group v group that's 1 spell out of a ton of incoming spells.
BTW, I have a question about spell reflect... can it reflect mind control? That would be fun.
With all the nerfing to Arms and Fury and the cool PvP stuff in prot it's kind of screaming "go prot, we want all of you warriors to be prot".
Edited, Sep 12th 2008 9:04pm by xorq
Enrage: more nerf.
Wrecking: more nerf.
Imp Spell reflect seems pretty good. Seems like the kind of thing that would make warriors hold threat in BGs. When a prot warrior spams Piercing Howl, Demo Shout, Thunder Clap and Imp spell reflect in PvP, someone is going to /yell "KILL THE F@$!@ WARRIOR PLZ".
On the other hand, it's probably going to make prot warriors imba 1v1 against casters, I say "probably" because you'd have to check the imba stuff the casters are already getting too. 1 spell every 5 seconds being thrown back at you is dangerous. Added to that is Devastate, the little special thing about it is that it sunders, and against cloth and leather (armor of most casters) that's a huge added damage.
In group v group I don't see it being soooooo much because it bounces back 1 spell every 5 sec. In group v group that's 1 spell out of a ton of incoming spells.
BTW, I have a question about spell reflect... can it reflect mind control? That would be fun.
With all the nerfing to Arms and Fury and the cool PvP stuff in prot it's kind of screaming "go prot, we want all of you warriors to be prot".
Edited, Sep 12th 2008 9:04pm by xorq
RPZip wrote:
robertlofthouse wrote:
Can somebody clarify something for me ... the miss rate on TG, the wording is:
"Titan's Grip (Tier 11) now reduces your chance to hit with melee abilities that require weapons by 15%."
Now I've read and re-read this many times, and I still can't decide if it's in addition to the current base miss rate of 5% (against same level mobs) or if TG changes the base miss chance TO 15%.
What say y'all
"Titan's Grip (Tier 11) now reduces your chance to hit with melee abilities that require weapons by 15%."
Now I've read and re-read this many times, and I still can't decide if it's in addition to the current base miss rate of 5% (against same level mobs) or if TG changes the base miss chance TO 15%.
What say y'all
In addition to.
Damn, was hoping you wouldn't say that ... but I guess the wording is clear enough :-(
Forgive me if this sounds like nonsense (Since I'm not much of a warrior player), but... Imp reflective shield can also considered somewhat of a nerf, can't it?
Imagine you fighting a mage. The mage tries to poly you and you put up spell reflect. Behind you there's a hunter from your side fighting a priest. The priest throws a rank 1 DOT and you reflect it to get poly'd afterwards.
Not sure how often this would happen, but not being able to 'choose' what you reflect seems a bit of a risk to me.
Imagine you fighting a mage. The mage tries to poly you and you put up spell reflect. Behind you there's a hunter from your side fighting a priest. The priest throws a rank 1 DOT and you reflect it to get poly'd afterwards.
Not sure how often this would happen, but not being able to 'choose' what you reflect seems a bit of a risk to me.
Mozared wrote:
Forgive me if this sounds like nonsense (Since I'm not much of a warrior player), but... Imp reflective shield can also considered somewhat of a nerf, can't it?
Imagine you fighting a mage. The mage tries to poly you and you put up spell reflect. Behind you there's a hunter from your side fighting a priest. The priest throws a rank 1 DOT and you reflect it to get poly'd afterwards.
Not sure how often this would happen, but not being able to 'choose' what you reflect seems a bit of a risk to me.
Imagine you fighting a mage. The mage tries to poly you and you put up spell reflect. Behind you there's a hunter from your side fighting a priest. The priest throws a rank 1 DOT and you reflect it to get poly'd afterwards.
Not sure how often this would happen, but not being able to 'choose' what you reflect seems a bit of a risk to me.
Exactly what I was refering to when I said that it is not that strong in group v group as much as it would be in 1v1.
But it still remains to be seen how viable it will be to be wielding a shield in PvP. As of now a warrior with a shield in PvP is barely as effective as a manned DoT. Sure you can debuff enemies when they are grouped close enough for thunderclap and demo shout but if you're trying to recover a flag in AV and there's 1 guy guarding there, killing him will take long enough for the flag to cap. Being unable to remove even weak targets from your path isn't very good at BGs.
Edited, Sep 13th 2008 1:09pm by xorq
Quote:
But it still remains to be seen how viable it will be to be wielding a shield in PvP.
While I mostly agree, I have to point out that for a prot warrior, it will probably be pretty viable to wield a shield in PvP. I can't see the talent becoming part of a cookie cutter build (unless something like 23/24/24 will become cookie cutter, but I can't see that happen), but it's another thing to give prot warriors some more viability in PvP. And that's a good thing. While I don't think prot can stand up to arms (or that that is blizzard's intent), lets just hope prot becomes 'viable' enough to do some casual BG/arena... It'll make life easier for MT's from raids anyhow.
Quote:
Forgive me if this sounds like nonsense (Since I'm not much of a warrior player), but... Imp reflective shield can also considered somewhat of a nerf, can't it?
Imagine you fighting a mage. The mage tries to poly you and you put up spell reflect. Behind you there's a hunter from your side fighting a priest. The priest throws a rank 1 DOT and you reflect it to get poly'd afterwards.
Not sure how often this would happen, but not being able to 'choose' what you reflect seems a bit of a risk to me.
Imagine you fighting a mage. The mage tries to poly you and you put up spell reflect. Behind you there's a hunter from your side fighting a priest. The priest throws a rank 1 DOT and you reflect it to get poly'd afterwards.
Not sure how often this would happen, but not being able to 'choose' what you reflect seems a bit of a risk to me.
Not really. It's nice in smaller arenas to catch spells but if there's ever more than one caster it's so hit-or-miss you can't consistently reflect anything. I can't even count the number of times I've tried to reflect someone to instead get a Purge or a Waterbolt or a Corruption. The advantage is that while you can't use it as strategically as a way to avoid CCs, you can use it to shield your entire group from a good portion of magic damage and/or effects. A grounding totem on a 3s cooldown would be massively overpowered. A grounding totem that reflects is even better.
And right now, Prot Warriors are ridiculously overpowered. I'd imagine the damage will get tuned down but with the new Sword and Board (and frankly, the new Shield Block) you do huge damage with your shield. With shield block active I was getting crit Shield Slams for ~4.7k in what is the equivalent of 77-78 blues. Throw in the Gag Order (new, better silence! Off GCD!) and there's some terribly compelling reasons to use a shield. We'll see what the DPS looks like after rebalancing but Prot Warriors won't be going to dual wield anytime soon.
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