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Skills for resto in WotlkFollow

#1 Sep 04 2008 at 3:54 AM Rating: Decent
Since I didn't see threat for this (beside the glypth one) I think we can add this info here. Some information about skills in Wotlk.
Link
One that was suprising me is the water shield. You get water shield at level 20 instead of 62. I think it's huge help for leveling since you will have less down time and more bashing.

How about some agro dumb you get at lvl 16:
"Instantly blasts the target with a gust of wind, causing no damage but lowering your threat, making the enemy less likely to attack you, and interrupts spellcasting and prevents any spell in that school from being cast for 2 sec sec.
8% of base mana, 20 yd range, Instant cast, 6 sec cooldown"

Things are about to change a lot again and I think I will take a break from wow for few weeks to play Diablo 3 and come back when servers are not crashing due to too many people doing same things ;)


Edited, Sep 4th 2008 1:52pm by Causa
#2 Sep 04 2008 at 1:25 PM Rating: Decent
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I happen to like the resto talent that procs a water shield orb on a Healing Wave crit, and then another talent that makes that same HW crit heal the person with the lowest health for 60% of that heal.

The paladin in me hates Cleanse Spirit, though. Stealing my spells, and not even *trying* to hide it.
#3 Sep 04 2008 at 11:42 PM Rating: Decent
I also happen to like (well who doesn't) that water shield crit procc. When they seem to push us in crit healing anyway. That's quite nice mp/5 added.

Also if these talents are going to stay, that Tidal Wave + Spirit link is bringing us perhaps some "[spirit link]+[chain heal] + 3x [healing wave]" -roration or some possibility to use it in that way.

There will be terrible amount of things to learn again and then there are going to be terrible amount of people who dont learn these at all. Try not to freak out when it happens. They are there to amuse them selfs.
#4 Sep 05 2008 at 5:18 PM Rating: Decent
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It's going to take a lot of testing to see how much 1 crit rating equates to in terms of MP/5. Of course, even then that would exclude how much additional healing you would get from the new talents. I have a feeling they are wanting shamans to stack crit/healing over healing/MP5.

Even with the changes, that's still a lot of global cooldowns dedicated to recharging water shield.... and very often I have to forego totems and even water shield in order to keep people alive. I'm not sure how much I like these changes, but I suppose no one will be 100% sure until the expac.

Edited, Sep 5th 2008 9:14pm by Jiade
#5 Sep 05 2008 at 7:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Jiade wrote:
I have a feeling they are wanting shamans to stack crit/healing over healing/MP5.

Actually, I think Blizzard is trying to get away from "stacking" altogether for the most part. The introduction of haste was just one step in that direction. By diversifying talents, mechanics, and gear options for every class, not just for Shaman, Blizzard seems to be trying to get away from the BC gear grind of focusing on just one or two stats to the exclusion of all else. DoT's are starting to crit, encouraging Warlocks of all specs to start looking for crit in addition to spell damage and stamina. (I realize that is also the case now, but only for end-game raiding Destruction Warlocks. Demo and Affliction ***** spell damage and stamina to the exclusion of all else.) Tanks are going to really be loading up on strength and actually caring about damage in addition to defense, shield block, and parry. You can paraphrase a lot of the blue posts to infer that they want to keep any one stat from reaching an absurdly high value, a point they repeatedly hammer home when talking about the vision for tanks.

Unless Imp. Water Shield really provides an astounding amount of MP5, in which case I would be willing to bet that Blizzard will change it, I think Resto Shaman are going to be shooting for roughly equal parts crit and MP5 after healing. We look to really need all three to make the most out of our spec in WotLK.
#6 Sep 06 2008 at 9:05 AM Rating: Decent
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Well, at the moment there are TWO huge places to improve water shield.

#1: Second tier of Enhancement. Improved Shields. With 3/3 the mana per orb is increased by 15%. The current state of Water shield (rank 9) is 100 MP/5 and 400 mana per charge. An increase per orb to 460 mana per orb with this talent. It does not states whether this talent affects the passive MP/5 of having Water Shield active. I assume it does not.

#2. Third tier of Resto. Improved Water Shield. With 3/3, 100% chance to "pop" an orb on spell crits from our single target healing spells. Again, ALL of our new talents are pushing for single target heals. So, water shield is 100 MP/5 and assuming you can pop all 3 orbs in 60s via crits... that's another 1320 mana per 60s. That's another 110 MP/5. It basically doubles the effectiveness of water shield. If you can get 3 crits in 30s... that's 220 MP/5 IN ADDITION to the base 100 MP/5.

It seems to me, crit will be more effective in terms of MP/5 than actual MP/5 for a shaman now. Of course, there will be a limit where you'd have to stack more and more ridiculous amount of crit to get the same return of MP/5, but I think that number will most likely be almost unattainable anyways.


PS: I feel Bliz is going the wrong direction with shaman. In an attempt to STOP chain heal spam, they've completely ignored Chain heal. It will be the same spell we have now. No new rank. No new "tricks" to it other than making single target spells faster. Does anyone honestly think the new talents will change much? I only see spirit link + Chain heal being truly useful. Everything else is crit/luck based on single target spells... and let's face it, are we really going to cast healing wave to raid heal? Are we REALLY going to spam lesser healing wave to raid heal when it sucks for mana and %healing coefficients? If they want us to use our single target spells, I think they need to fix some mana costs of shaman spells and how they scale with +spell power/+healing.

Edited, Sep 6th 2008 1:05pm by Jiade
#7 Sep 06 2008 at 6:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Jiade wrote:
#1: Second tier of Enhancement. Improved Shields. With 3/3 the mana per orb is increased by 15%. The current state of Water shield (rank 9) is 100 MP/5 and 400 mana per charge. An increase per orb to 460 mana per orb with this talent. It does not states whether this talent affects the passive MP/5 of having Water Shield active. I assume it does not.

#2. Third tier of Resto. Improved Water Shield. With 3/3, 100% chance to "pop" an orb on spell crits from our single target healing spells. Again, ALL of our new talents are pushing for single target heals. So, water shield is 100 MP/5 and assuming you can pop all 3 orbs in 60s via crits... that's another 1320 mana per 60s. That's another 110 MP/5. It basically doubles the effectiveness of water shield. If you can get 3 crits in 30s... that's 220 MP/5 IN ADDITION to the base 100 MP/5.

It seems to me, crit will be more effective in terms of MP/5 than actual MP/5 for a shaman now. Of course, there will be a limit where you'd have to stack more and more ridiculous amount of crit to get the same return of MP/5, but I think that number will most likely be almost unattainable anyways.

I keep getting my math screwed up, so I'm afraid I can't really show it in hard numbers, but as you said, it's going to take a ridiculous amount of crit in order to make that talent compete with straigth MP/5. You also have to spend an inordinant amount of mana casting HW's in order to get that MP/5 back as such that you're not gaining anything back, you're just losing less than you would have if you chain-cast HW or LHW without the talent. As it is, you really shouldn't think of Improved Water Shield as an alternate source of MP/5, but rather as a cost reduction talent for HW and LHW.

Quote:
In an attempt to STOP chain heal spam, they've completely ignored Chain heal. It will be the same spell we have now. No new rank. No new "tricks" to it...

There will be a new rank of Chain Heal. They've said as much themselves, it just hasn't shown up yet. Beyond that, does Chain Heal even need any more new tricks?

Quote:
Does anyone honestly think the new talents will change much? I only see spirit link + Chain heal being truly useful. Everything else is crit/luck based on single target spells... and let's face it, are we really going to cast healing wave to raid heal? Are we REALLY going to spam lesser healing wave to raid heal when it sucks for mana and %healing coefficients?

I think the entire point is to allow us (or force us, depending on your PoV) to cast a broader range of spells. Blizzard has hammered home time and time again that they want to move away from the specialization-fest that was TBC. It's practically their mantra for WotLK. We should be going into encounters casting what heals when and where they need to be, not just downloading a mod and spamming auto-adjusted Chain Heals or single-target heals. Everything shouldn't be based on raw statastics.

And by the way, you and I and every other Resto Shaman had better hope that they figure it out and make it work, because Priests are looking to destroy us in AoE/raid healing in WotLK. Instead of the best raid healing class (Priests) or the best single-target healing class (Paladins), we are going to have to carve a niche for ourself in between the two lest we fade into obscurity.

Edited, Sep 6th 2008 10:02pm by Gaudion
#8 Sep 06 2008 at 7:02 PM Rating: Decent
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I honestly think they're going to ***** it up big time. And our ONLY niche is going to be our raid-wide buffs and spirit link. Let's face it, people don't invite us for Earth Shield (our wonderful 41 pt talent).

The one other interesting thing is the efficiency of healing wave and lesser are going to increase with Tidal Waves active. Also, lesser healing wave on a target with earth shield will gain more efficiency if you glyph properly. This may make single target spells approach the hpm of chain heal.

The point about crit vs MP/5 is this. For low to moderate amounts of crit, it will be more efficient than MP/5 with improved water shield. Once you reach a certain amount, MP/5 will become more efficient point per point. This is due to the frequency with which anyone can cast spells. For instance, 3 crits in 1 min is not very hard to achieve. Small amounts of crit can double your natural crit chance... so 6 in a min thereby doubling your effective MP/5. Eventually you can't cast enough to see more than a certain number of crits in 1 min. (ex, going from 5% to 10%, vs 10% to 20%, vs 20% to 40%... etc).

Lesser Healing wave will heal 45% more with glyph + tidal Waves. That's pretty remarkable actually. And then add in that with crits, you'll get 60% of that heal jumping to another target ANYWHERE in the raid within 40 or 45 yards? That could potentially outheal chain heal especially considering the space limitations. So.... I crit for around 3.4k. I'd heal for about 1.5k more with ES + TW on (so 4.9k crit) then 2.9k would jump to someone else. :X That's strong...

Edited, Sep 6th 2008 11:10pm by Jiade
#9 Sep 08 2008 at 3:48 AM Rating: Good
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Jiade wrote:
I honestly think they're going to ***** it up big time. And our ONLY niche is going to be our raid-wide buffs and spirit link. Let's face it, people don't invite us for Earth Shield (our wonderful 41 pt talent).

The one other interesting thing is the efficiency of healing wave and lesser are going to increase with Tidal Waves active. Also, lesser healing wave on a target with earth shield will gain more efficiency if you glyph properly. This may make single target spells approach the hpm of chain heal.

I think I failed at iterating it in my last post, but I think Blizzard wants to pull us and every other spec/class out of niches. Instead of, "Can you raid heal?" or, "Can you single target heal?" Blizzard wants the question to be simply, "Can you heal?" Likewise, they don't want specific abilities coming into question. Instead of, "Let's take the Shaman, he's got Spirit Link and Earth Shield and Chain Heal," it should be just, "We need another healer and there's a Resto Shaman looking. Grab him."

That's why they homogenized buffs and gave so many classes new buffs and abilities that overlapped with other class' old buffs and abilities. They want parties and raids to be based on who your friends are, who your guildmates are, who's online right now. They want to get away from "We have to have a Prot Pally to tank this fight," or "We have to have at least three Resto Shaman to raid heal this fight." At the end of it all, the decision should be made entirely on the quality of the player's skill, gear, and relationship to the rest of the party or raid.

That's the ideal, anyways. Again, whether or not they can actually pull it off remains to be seen. I doubt I have much more faith in it than you do, though I have little choice but to hope for that utopian expansion.

Quote:
The point about crit vs MP/5 is this. For low to moderate amounts of crit, it will be more efficient than MP/5 with improved water shield. Once you reach a certain amount, MP/5 will become more efficient point per point. This is due to the frequency with which anyone can cast spells. For instance, 3 crits in 1 min is not very hard to achieve. Small amounts of crit can double your natural crit chance... so 6 in a min thereby doubling your effective MP/5. Eventually you can't cast enough to see more than a certain number of crits in 1 min. (ex, going from 5% to 10%, vs 10% to 20%, vs 20% to 40%... etc).

You're still thinking in terms of time. What I was trying to get at here was quantity. If you have 200 MP/5 on your gear, you regen 200 MP/5. If you go five seconds without casting, that mana is yours to keep. If you have the Imp. Water Shield talent though, and you spend 800 MP on a HW that nets you 250 MP from the crit, you've just regened -550 MP. Do you see what I'm getting at? It's not really MP/5 at all. It's more like cost reduction. If I don't cast a spell--if I don't spend mana to begin with--I don't regen anything. It's still very useful for longevity in much the same way that crit is useful for Elemental Shaman, and there is still an early window there where reduction > regen (as there always has been), but in general it's better thought of as a compliment to MP/5, not a substitute. If you're spending less mana per minute then your MP/5 is giving you just that much more mana back and your mana pool as a whole will stretch just that much further.

Edited, Sep 8th 2008 8:23am by Gaudion
#10 Sep 08 2008 at 8:43 AM Rating: Decent
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True about the crit vs MP/5; however, in endgame I am generally never NOT casting something. There is always someone to heal. Also, even at 70 the vast majority of resto'ish gear has MP/5 and it comes down to two things: gear itemization or gem itemization. Just like in BT you can either go for +healing/haste or +healing/MP5 on gear. In Sunwell you get a mix of all 3.

Looking at the new Naxx gear, wearing it all you get spell power/crit/MP5. Obviously no one would forsake MP5 completely and go for complete crit gear because that would be silly, however in the assumption that you are continually casting, there will be a rough equivalent between MP5 and crit. Just as there is currently an "equivalent" between upping spell power and downranking vs using full rank and gemming MP5. It's a game of balance. Of course, downranking will not be a possibility in the expansion, so now it'll be finding a balance between MP5 and crit.

When I'm not in combat I can drink, so MP5 I don't care about. When I'm in combat in raids, I usually don't stop casting. Solo is the only time I'd definitely consider MP5 being better than crit because I can conserve mana easily by myself whereas in groups, my job is to keep my mana up as high as possible while keeping everyone alive too. There will be an amount of crit where you will get the best returns compared to MP/5 especially when it comes to gems. 10 crit vs 3 MP/5? >.> You can get Crit much more easily than MP/5.
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