Looked at the first few pages and didn't see any topics relating to my issue.
I guess 69 pvp may not be that popular as most players at that level just want to hit 70 as fast as they can. Personally, I can stand being 69 a few days in order to get some S2 gear when I hit 70, largely because I think 69 is the best level for WSG, AB, and EotS in this game. I'm not going to twink my enchants or spend that much time getting gear. I looked at the Shadowpanther lists for 60-69 twink gear and picked the easiest pieces to get and made a list, I'll have them all shortly as they are mostly very easy to get. But I do want to be competitive in my spec, and that's where this thread comes in.
I did a bit of looking around the net and saw that a lot of people recommended a Hemo spec because of the lack of resilience. I also saw a few recommendations for Sub specs. Any recommendations here?
I am Combat atm but I will be using a fist mainhand and a mace offhand so I won't be going back to Combat until I'm level 70 with some freshly enchanted S2 swords.
Here's my rogue, btw:
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Mug%27thol&n=Shurq
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69 pvp build adviceFollow
You should only stay 69 long enough until the servers reset on Tuesdays. Ding 70 the day before and do 10 arena. Really, you are killing yourself on every week of arena you miss.
Eh, arena. Been there, done that, not too interested in it anymore TBH.
Also I'm not gonna stick at 69 for a long time, just long enough for me to get my S2 swords without feeling like a fresh 70 in BGs.
Edited, Sep 3rd 2008 10:00pm by Lorimath
Also I'm not gonna stick at 69 for a long time, just long enough for me to get my S2 swords without feeling like a fresh 70 in BGs.
Edited, Sep 3rd 2008 10:00pm by Lorimath
This has been discussed quite a few times over the last few months: bottom line was, go to 70 ASAP unless you're in a battle group where you can really rule as 69.
Edit: since you posted your armory, here are my two bits:
- change your offhand (2.5 is WAY to slow, aim for 1.8),
- get some enchants, there are many cheap ones (don't need to get mangoost obviously),
- I think that you would do better with a ShS build such as mine (see sig); your current build is too pve oriented (especially, for pvp, don't take vitality: imp sprint/kick or even nerves of steel would serve you better).
nostra
Edited, Sep 4th 2008 2:53pm by nostraaa
Edit: since you posted your armory, here are my two bits:
- change your offhand (2.5 is WAY to slow, aim for 1.8),
- get some enchants, there are many cheap ones (don't need to get mangoost obviously),
- I think that you would do better with a ShS build such as mine (see sig); your current build is too pve oriented (especially, for pvp, don't take vitality: imp sprint/kick or even nerves of steel would serve you better).
nostra
Edited, Sep 4th 2008 2:53pm by nostraaa
((That's not what was discussed though, was it? You're stating that in a min/maxing way it is more effective to go to 70 ASAP rather than hanging at 69. Be that as it may, the OP is saying he simply likes doing some 69 PvP before dinging 70 to get some gear; he's asking for spec advice in that setting, not for people to tell him it's 'better' to just hit 70.))
As for on-topicness... I don't reckon at 69 your spec will matter enough to really care, but still...
Going an Ambush ShS spec probably won't work anymore since at 69 classes will have obtained pretty much all their survivaling abilities and Ambush will no longer allow you to 2-shot stuff. For the 'best' or most competitive spec I think a version of the cookie cutter hemo-ShS build will work best. Something like this with 3 points left for wherever you want them.
Alternatively, if you'd like to try something fun, you could go with a 29/0/31 build. That's what I'm currently playing around with myself (be it 30/0/31 in my situation)... At 70 you can do fairly well up to the point where you'll really begin to miss ShS. At 69, I can see it working pretty well.
Edited, Sep 4th 2008 2:59pm by Mozared
As for on-topicness... I don't reckon at 69 your spec will matter enough to really care, but still...
Going an Ambush ShS spec probably won't work anymore since at 69 classes will have obtained pretty much all their survivaling abilities and Ambush will no longer allow you to 2-shot stuff. For the 'best' or most competitive spec I think a version of the cookie cutter hemo-ShS build will work best. Something like this with 3 points left for wherever you want them.
Alternatively, if you'd like to try something fun, you could go with a 29/0/31 build. That's what I'm currently playing around with myself (be it 30/0/31 in my situation)... At 70 you can do fairly well up to the point where you'll really begin to miss ShS. At 69, I can see it working pretty well.
Edited, Sep 4th 2008 2:59pm by Mozared
Mozared wrote:
((That's not what was discussed though, was it? You're stating that in a min/maxing way it is more effective to go to 70 ASAP rather than hanging at 69. Be that as it may, the OP is saying he simply likes doing some 69 PvP before dinging 70 to get some gear; he's asking for spec advice in that setting, not for people to tell him it's 'better' to just hit 70.))
Then maybe you could try and read what I wrote before you start patronizing. Then you'd have seen that I recomended a respec to ShS, pointing towards the build in my sig, wich, btw, is better than the one you recommend.
And, please, don't recommend "exotic" builds (30/0/31) to a new rogue, that's pretty dumb.
nostra
You know full well that you edited that post lateron mate, I was responding to that one line you had before you decided to play safe. Which is the reason why I applied the double brackets to my own post; it wasn't as much true anymore as before your edit.
As for my post, what I'm basically trying to tell him is to spec what he feels comfortable with and what he likes, and I'm encouraging him to try out-of-ordinary builds as they might be what they're looking for. Speccing the way you like it = playing the way you like it = having fun. Call me dumb if you insist, but that might be the best advice you can give a person in life.
(Yes, I'll squeeze myself out of anything, even when I'm wrong =P)
As for my post, what I'm basically trying to tell him is to spec what he feels comfortable with and what he likes, and I'm encouraging him to try out-of-ordinary builds as they might be what they're looking for. Speccing the way you like it = playing the way you like it = having fun. Call me dumb if you insist, but that might be the best advice you can give a person in life.
(Yes, I'll squeeze myself out of anything, even when I'm wrong =P)
nostraaa wrote:
This has been discussed quite a few times over the last few months: bottom line was, go to 70 ASAP unless you're in a battle group where you can really rule as 69.
Edit: since you posted your armory, here are my two bits:
- change your offhand (2.5 is WAY to slow, aim for 1.8),
- get some enchants, there are many cheap ones (don't need to get mangoost obviously),
- I think that you would do better with a ShS build such as mine (see sig); your current build is too pve oriented (especially, for pvp, don't take vitality: imp sprint/kick or even nerves of steel would serve you better).
nostra
Edited, Sep 4th 2008 2:53pm by nostraaa
Edit: since you posted your armory, here are my two bits:
- change your offhand (2.5 is WAY to slow, aim for 1.8),
- get some enchants, there are many cheap ones (don't need to get mangoost obviously),
- I think that you would do better with a ShS build such as mine (see sig); your current build is too pve oriented (especially, for pvp, don't take vitality: imp sprint/kick or even nerves of steel would serve you better).
nostra
Edited, Sep 4th 2008 2:53pm by nostraaa
I think you may be right, I did some battlegrounds last night at 65 and was severely disappointed in the quality of the Alliance I was fighting. They were abominable; the worst pvpers I have ever seen bar none. There was no competition. Even the 69s couldn't come close to killing me, even the same class as me. Every match was a mad dash to finish the objectives followed by a bit of farming. Go to AB, we'd have a 5 cap within 30 seconds and then farm the Alliance graveyard while the timer ticked. Go to WSG, no opposition at all and we got upset that they weren't even trying so we farmed their graveyard for 10 minutes. Eye of the Storm, we 4 cap them and start running flags while they just waited on their starting point. It was truly a pathetic display of ineptitude.
I was hoping to not jump into 70 without a clear understanding of my pvp specs, because I have always planned to go ShS at 70 when I pvp. Now, I'm not sure if changing my spec would even have an effect, because I just mindlessly ran at people spamming SS and I was wiping the floor with them. I hope it was just a bad time and there's some better Alliance out there...
Onto your points.
I will be getting a better offhand (and switching the fist I am using as offhand to mainhand) when I hit level 66 and do the Durn the Hungerer quest. Almost there, like 2 bars left. I was using a 2.6 speed green sword, which had the best stats, which I used to replace a 2.4 speed sword. As you can tell, I have had no luck with faster weapons. I've seen daggers, but I don't feel like leveling a weapon type I would never consider using except as a filler weapon. I just don't like daggers. Tried running Mana-tombs (like 5 times or so) for the sword (Scimitar of the Nexus Stalkers) but no luck. Once I get the mace I'll just use that until I get my S2 swords so it's not an issue.
I'm not gonna spend money enchanting my gear until I have pieces I won't replace in a few days. Even the cheap enchants. I just don't see the point in it. I'm saving gold for my epic flyer, for one thing. I don't have a 70 to fund me on Mug'thol so I have to farm my own gold and I only have 2400 so far.
My build I have is my leveling build, which is why I have riposte. I'll change it at 70, or maybe at 69 if some competition ever shows its face.
If you don't like daggers, you'll be disappointed by your class at 80.
Overlord Theophany wrote:
If you don't like daggers, you'll be disappointed by your class at 80.
Eh we'll see how it all pans out. I'm not against change, I just don't like daggers in today's state of WoW.
Who knows if I'll even play my rogue at 80, I'll have at least one warrior, a druid, a hunter, and a death knight at that point so I'm sure there'll be some classes I'll ignore for a time.
Quote:
I think you may be right, I did some battlegrounds last night at 65 and was severely disappointed in the quality of the Alliance I was fighting. They were abominable; the worst pvpers I have ever seen bar none. There was no competition. Even the 69s couldn't come close to killing me, even the same class as me. Every match was a mad dash to finish the objectives followed by a bit of farming. Go to AB, we'd have a 5 cap within 30 seconds and then farm the Alliance graveyard while the timer ticked. Go to WSG, no opposition at all and we got upset that they weren't even trying so we farmed their graveyard for 10 minutes. Eye of the Storm, we 4 cap them and start running flags while they just waited on their starting point. It was truly a pathetic display of ineptitude.
I don't believe the Alliance, on my battlegroup, know what teamwork is. They run around in 1s and 2s getting slaughtered by the gang of horde. It's gotten to the point sometimes, where I just sit in the graveyard and eat my popcorn. So I feel your pain. Winning without competition is as boring as constantly losing and being helpless to do anything about it.
What I've found in BGs (now with 2 toons) was that: Honor is better, generally, at 70. But the great thing about the 69 bracket is that marks are much easier to get. At least in my battlegroup. Win to loss ratios were much, much more equal before 70 across all the different BGs, making is far more efficient to earn marks before hitting 70. Your millage may very.
As far as spec, I didn't notice any huge difference in my HKs at 69. And I experimented a lot. Had a lot of fun as sub but muti did have its allure as well. Honestly, I'd say respec as often as you like if all you're doing is BGs, and try out all the specs you can. This way you'll have a chance to taste the many flavors of rogue game play before having to spec to end-game content.
Have fun and happy hunting!
As far as spec, I didn't notice any huge difference in my HKs at 69. And I experimented a lot. Had a lot of fun as sub but muti did have its allure as well. Honestly, I'd say respec as often as you like if all you're doing is BGs, and try out all the specs you can. This way you'll have a chance to taste the many flavors of rogue game play before having to spec to end-game content.
Have fun and happy hunting!
Mozared wrote:
You know full well that you edited that post lateron mate, I was responding to that one line you had before you decided to play safe.
I posted/edited between 2:48 and 2:57, as the thread shows.
You posted/edited between 2:59 and 3:04.
So you posted/edited after my second edit. So stop writing bullsh*t and making excuses: you reply was not on the point, that's it.
And also stop trying to be a smartass, I'm not "playing safe", I'm trying to give useful feedback to those smart enough to take it. The OP seems to appreciate my feedback, so why don't you just drop it here? Seems like you're playing Robin Wood for nobody...
Mozared wrote:
As for my post, what I'm basically trying to tell him is to spec what he feels comfortable with and what he likes, and I'm encouraging him to try out-of-ordinary builds as they might be what they're looking for. Speccing the way you like it = playing the way you like it = having fun. Call me dumb if you insist, but that might be the best advice you can give a person in life.
I did not call you dumb, I said that giving such advice was dumb. And I'll repeat for your pleasure:
- recommending to a new rogue to go off-track is dumb advice: we all know that new rogues should stick to cookie-cutter builds before they at least have an idea of what those do and try and improve them
- in addition, when someone asks for build advice, replying "do whatever you like" is not helping, so it's also dumb advice in this regard.
Mozared wrote:
(Yes, I'll squeeze myself out of anything, even when I'm wrong =P)
You got one point: you're wrong and you know it.
But you're not squeezing yourself out of anything, you're just making a fool of yourself. Spare it to us, for god's sake.
nostra
Edited, Sep 5th 2008 11:04am by nostraaa
This is a case of giving stupid suggestions.
Mozared, you're notorious for liking bad ideas. From specs to weapons, the stuff you have a preference for is usually sub-par.
Please don't give newer rogues the idea that it's a good idea to play with sub-par weapons and a sub-par spec.
I don't care if you make the suggestion of playing ShS and then say, "but if you get bored of ShS (like I do), then try this..." because that's your own personal preference.
What I do care about is people handing out bad info on this forum, something that I've worked so hard to kill.
I understand that playing dagger specs is fun as hell. Trust me, I'm leveling a mut rogue on beta because I've already leveled as combat and sub. It's awesome.
But that doesn't mean we should be saying, "well this spec is great" when in reality it's sub-par and is really just one of those fun specs you play on the weekends or whatever.
It doesn't help new rogues, or people asking for help.
Mozared, you're notorious for liking bad ideas. From specs to weapons, the stuff you have a preference for is usually sub-par.
Please don't give newer rogues the idea that it's a good idea to play with sub-par weapons and a sub-par spec.
I don't care if you make the suggestion of playing ShS and then say, "but if you get bored of ShS (like I do), then try this..." because that's your own personal preference.
What I do care about is people handing out bad info on this forum, something that I've worked so hard to kill.
I understand that playing dagger specs is fun as hell. Trust me, I'm leveling a mut rogue on beta because I've already leveled as combat and sub. It's awesome.
But that doesn't mean we should be saying, "well this spec is great" when in reality it's sub-par and is really just one of those fun specs you play on the weekends or whatever.
It doesn't help new rogues, or people asking for help.
I suppose I can accept that, though I did mention the *best* would probably be a cookie cutter ShS build.
And Nostra... I'll try to keep this small;
Actually, that's because I read your post, then typed mine, switched back to WoW to do some stuff and thén posted my reply. At that point I noticed you had by then edited your own post and I therefore edited my own. You'll probably tell me you don't believe it, but that's what happened.
On the first point, I did mention the best would probably be the cookie cutter ShS build. On the second, this is the first time I really tend to agree with you, it's a valid point. I'm saying *tend* to agree with you because I could argue about it, but for the sake of this thread won't.
Actually, that was a subtle and playful way of showing you I understood your point but didn't fully agree, knowing you were right in some area (2 lines up from here). You made a post in which you were giving only information that was fairly off the point and I reacted to that. When I noticed you had updated your post I did the same to show that what I had said was no longer completely valid. I don't think I was 'wrong'. In fact, I guess you agreed with me that simply posting "go to 70 asap" wasn't really a fair post seeing as you edited in more.
And Nostra... I'll try to keep this small;
Quote:
I posted/edited between 2:48 and 2:57, as the thread shows.
You posted/edited between 2:59 and 3:04.
So you posted/edited after my second edit. So stop writing bullsh*t and making excuses: you reply was not on the point, that's it.
You posted/edited between 2:59 and 3:04.
So you posted/edited after my second edit. So stop writing bullsh*t and making excuses: you reply was not on the point, that's it.
Actually, that's because I read your post, then typed mine, switched back to WoW to do some stuff and thén posted my reply. At that point I noticed you had by then edited your own post and I therefore edited my own. You'll probably tell me you don't believe it, but that's what happened.
Quote:
- recommending to a new rogue to go off-track is dumb advice: we all know that new rogues should stick to cookie-cutter builds before they at least have an idea of what those do and try and improve them
- in addition, when someone asks for build advice, replying "do whatever you like" is not helping, so it's also dumb advice in this regard.
- in addition, when someone asks for build advice, replying "do whatever you like" is not helping, so it's also dumb advice in this regard.
On the first point, I did mention the best would probably be the cookie cutter ShS build. On the second, this is the first time I really tend to agree with you, it's a valid point. I'm saying *tend* to agree with you because I could argue about it, but for the sake of this thread won't.
Quote:
You got one point: you're wrong and you know it.
Actually, that was a subtle and playful way of showing you I understood your point but didn't fully agree, knowing you were right in some area (2 lines up from here). You made a post in which you were giving only information that was fairly off the point and I reacted to that. When I noticed you had updated your post I did the same to show that what I had said was no longer completely valid. I don't think I was 'wrong'. In fact, I guess you agreed with me that simply posting "go to 70 asap" wasn't really a fair post seeing as you edited in more.
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