Official Beta Changes and Discussion [updated 9/19/08]Follow

With the nerf to shadowstep, the nerf to hfb and now the nerf of the glove, we will probably be kitted like hell in pvp even when muti/sub.

Yeah Sedat i agree. Its not so much interrupting people in mele range but interrupting things out of mele range and now this will lead to massive kiting issues. Its almost as if Blizz are building the new talents based around arena and less on individual pvp. Our burst damage potential in both ssasin and subt. is massive theres no debate there (although others i am sure will debate it) In arena i think people will start trinketing out of KS more rather than blind. With assasination this could ruin it for us, because i was a big fan of doing a 5 point KS followed by a 5 point Evis + coldblood therefore taking 9% more damaage due to imp. KS.

Idk i am a little bit worried rogues could drop off the pvp scene, sure in BG's we can still have some fun but thats very situational and BG's isn't what people care about. Arena could see a lot less rogues.

You're a moron, and bad at rogue.

Ok no it wasn't sarcasm but i wasn't detailed enough. In 2v2 this time around there A LOT of teams with a rogue, i don't know the exact % but i am sure it is high. I really think with all these changes that we could lose our ability to kill mages easily and have it go from easy to damn nearly impossible. Hunters could also turn out to be very very hard to kill, it seems like Blizz have gone about giving us opposition that is hard to kill. Right now we struggle against a good druid but realistically thats it. I know i am being to quick to judge how things will turn out and have clearly ruffled some important feathers with my comments but i just don't want to go into an arena match and say "Oh **** they have an <insert class here>, ok lets kill the other guy" I like the option to be open.

I don't think so, based on my playing on beta.

I realize that I haven't played arena on beta, but at the same time the rogue nerfs aren't so substantial that we won't be viable in arena.

And don't think that Blizzard won't be paying attention to arena in S5. I'd expect to see changes (minor fixes, if not substantial overhauls to talents) in the first few weeks of S5.

Personally my mobility is insane on beta, because I'm playing a 0/17/53 spec. With there really being no point to Vile Poisons anymore (yes, it's easy to dispel, but also easy to reapply both Wound and Crip), I've grabbed Imp Sprint, Endurance, DW Spec, and Precision.

It's a pretty epic spec, and 1v1 I haven't lost at all yet because my cooldowns are absolutely ridiculous. I can 100-0 a warrior, pretty much.

Basically between Dismantle and Evasion being on a 2 min cooldown (and Prep on 5 mins; I haven't had a change to glyph Prep yet), warriors, ret pallies, and hunters can't touch me, and I chew through mages ridiculously fast with 30 energy Hemos.

Shadowdance is icing on the cake, TBH. It's hard to get used to adding in essentially 4 new key bindings, but once you get used to it it brings in some pretty epic CC chains that you can pull off.

I've done a 1v2 (warrior/druid) where I started with a sap on the druid, followed with a Blind, then did CS -> KS while the warrior had Crip/Dismantle up, and I switched back to the warrior on KS, Sapped the druid twice at the end of the KS using ShD.

If you really look at that, there was really nothing the druid could have done to counter that; he could have trinketed early, but that wouldn't have prevented me from getting three saps off or him eating a full duration Sap/Blind.

ShD is pretty damn powerful, TBH. After using it a lot, I'm liking the new form a lot.

Mutilate still lacks mobility.

And no, Imp Kick is not something you take for random use; it locks out ALL schools for 2 secs while you lock out one specific school for 5 secs. Imp Sprint is far more useful, as you can Vanish-Garrote if you really want 2 secs of silence.

As far as offhand damage goes, do some research. It's pretty obvious what DW Spec does, and every rogue should know that by the time they hit 70.

the nerf or fix to sap glyph sounds inevitable unless ofcourse other cc's in pvp are getting possible extensions. I scrolled through all of the glyphs and i don't recall seeing an increase to polymorph, but i do remember increased fear durations for lock and SP so maybe this is the angle. Do you "glyph" for reduced CD's, imp dmg or increased cc. they seem like the 3 options. But yeah preparation a 3min CD is sweet and the nerf to ShS doesn't seem to bad with a 60 second imp. sprint. Not sure if this would be OP but it would nice to be immune to roots / snares while sprinting especially if the immunity was combined into the talent

yes, and based on your realm economy this could be very very expensive. One of 2 things could happen loads of people could go "ZOMG new profession gimme gimme" and glyps will be cheap. or people will say "meh will let someone else do it" and they could be very expensive mats don't seem outrageous so lets just hope its not to bad.

If the sap glyph adds more than 1 - 2 secs on pvp sap then I'll eat my tongue.

Sadly, I don't have a hat to hand. my tongue is always near my teeth, though. Conveinience is everything in our modern society.

http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=f0efoIMsiroszZ0gVbobZgbb

^ That's the build I was thinking of, BTW. Well, it needs tweaking, i just filled it in fast, but that's the basic idea. It's either that or prep mut for me.

I don't want to play shs hemo anymore =(

I think the Glyph of Sap currently adds 8-10 sec in PvP in Beta (what they're saying on the beta forums at least).

As far as Mutilate in PvP, I would recommend this spec:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?rogue=00500520402000000000000000000050231153021315221003010005320002000000000000000000000
MoD could be swapped for Camouflage, up to you (CQC points could also be put in Deflection). Main idea is that with a Glyph of Sprint, Endurance and Improved Sprint, Sprint = 1 min cd snare remover.
You also still have Elusiveness to bring Vanish/Blind/CoS CD down =)

Edited, Sep 23rd 2008 11:51am by angryempath