Official Beta Changes and Discussion [updated 9/19/08]Follow

Well if Eviscerate is that good, I'll definitely get CttC. I just didn't want to get fewer Mutilates (because Eviscerate is 10 more energy than SnD) for less damage (because of removing Mutilate boosting talents) to use it, if it was still garbage like it is now. I also realized something, it refreshes SnD to 5pts even if you only use a 1 combo point Eviscerate, so you really should -never- let SnD fall down (I will probably take the points out of Improved SnD and CQC).

I guess I'll also take Improved Eviscerate instead of Blood Spatter if it really scales better than Rupture now O_o

As far as I can tell so far, isn't Crit going to become much more sought after for raiding rogues? The new deep combat talents almost demand at least a small shift from AP to Crit (after getting or nearing hit cap). Or am I all dumb about it?

And if Crit does become more stacked, that would push the numbers to favor Evis, even if slightly?

It might be to bring some crit and with that chance back into raiding?

Like Theo just pointed out, at the moment the formulas are 'perhaps a little in favor of rupture'. Why? Because in an avarage raid, you'd rather do a fixed amount of X damage rather than throw an evis which can crit for X+300 damage or hit for X-500 damage.

By buffing up crit numbers it might become a bit more worthwhile to take a couple of 'gambles', so to say. Especially in regards to CttC.



Either that, or some other inscrutible reason I have no idea of *Grins*

T6 gear will be, like T3, valid into the first raiding content, with maybe a piece or two of non-set gear getting replaced by blues and epics found in level 80 instances.

Which is why crit% will be reduced: level 80 Agi:crit% ratio is different from 70.

As far as rogues focusing on crit, I can't really see that happening, Therion. Our white damage is the vast majority of our damage, and even with Prey on the Weak, not much will change from that.

Crit damage increase will have a larger effect on damage with more crit, that's correct, but it's not big enough to completely change the way we gear.

Are you retarded? Have you not paid attention to class mechanics?

Of course we'll have to focus on hit rating. We're the only class who has a majority of our damage coming from white damage.

With 28% hit rating needed to not miss on bosses with white attacks, it doesn't make sense to then go and gem and gear for Agi.

It'd be like saying, "oh, hey, I need water, but I'm gonna go ahead and drink salt water instead."

And how would hit improve yellow hits? Yellow hits are capped against bosses by the time you hit 63 hit (4%). What would hit have an effect on?

Do me a favor and go read the sitcky I put up, specifically the part about hit rating and expertise, because you're obviously too ignorant to post about mechanics currently.

I wouldn't say focus on crit as much as lean toward it a bit more (if that makes sense). Right now after hit cap, raiding rogues start stacking agi and or AP, ignoring +crit almost completely. What sticks in my head (rightly or wrongly) is this question: At what point tossing in a few +crit gems to the mix (for example) might be worth it. I'm really curious as to where the new comparative crit to AP ratios will be with those new combat talents taken into account. But until we have a decent sample set from the new raids (dear WWS, I heart you!), and final mechanics are worked out, I guess there can't really be any hard analysis.

Let me put it this way: I'm curious to figure out at what point crit becomes more useful to stack than AP (after hit cap) if at all.

Probably never, now that I think about it. I guess I'm just dreaming of a day where I can actually use green gems in my raiding gear.

And for the record: I'm not advocating anyone bail on +hit in favor of anything else until near or at the cap of course. Just trying to figure out where the new tipping point between two stats is, and if it's at all attainable or advisable.

Thanks all.

No, you don't seem to get it.

AP is changing nothing.

The Eviscerate formula is changing.

The reason I was calling you an idiot is because all of your posts in this forum have been ignorant of game mechanics, lest we forget this thread, in which you asked a basic question that was obvious is you had any common sense and hadn't ebayed your character.

And edit: crit gems will never be viable. EVER.

Agi has been and will always be the primary stat of choice after the hit cap is attained.

It's simple game mechanics. Crit is a very poor itemization stat due to game mechanics. Check my sticky if you want to know why.

Edited, Sep 4th 2008 6:02pm by Theophany

Why the hell would you ever want to use any of those for a meta slot in PvE?

Relentless Earthsiege Diamond... 21 agi 3% increased crit dmg
Would still be better by a long shot for PvE

PvP, the two Earthsiege ones listed might be better than Swift Skyflare (42 ap increased running speed) for the added survivability

Because it's been answered over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again?

Just did some quick number crunching (mostly guesstimations based on current formulas) and even with some small benefits from the new end-tree combat talents, Theo's right: Crit is basically still pointless to stack for PvE. ;( Damn you Theo and your "logic"!!! Guess my hopes were up a bit too much for some new stat choices.

Oh well, anyone interested in a stack of green gems?

Wow, Blood Splatter has been moved to Tier2 (where Murder used to be), and gives 15-30% more Rupture instead of 10-20%

Pretty awesome for any Raiding spec.

Nifty little buff to Imp. SnD as well, now only 2 points for +50% duration.

Early assassination feels fixed as a supplement to the other trees now, if only tier 3 and 4 of combat didn't have you rolling points in Endurance, Imp. Sprint, and Lightning Reflexes...WTB RS tier 1 combat.../sigh

Edit: Lethality's text changed to +6% crit damage for all combo moves. May still be useful, if what they said before about lock's dots "sorta being able to crit" applies to Rupture's bleed as well. If not, could abandon the assassination tree after Ruthlessness and use the remaining 6 points to grab one talent of Serrated Blades.

Prey on the Weak also dropped to 20% total, 4% per talent.

Edited, Sep 6th 2008 5:32am by Malithar

Edited, Sep 6th 2008 5:38am by Malithar

I've updated my talent calculator, the one at Wowhead seems a bit messed up (specifically the icons).

Mine is now updated to include the changes mentioned
Here: http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.php?topic=15026.0
And here: http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=f


Furthermore, it seems lethality has not been nerfed, rather buffed. The post at MMO-champion states the following about the skill:

-Lethality now increases the critical strike damage of all combo moves by 6/12/18/24/30%. (Old - Didn't affect all skills)

So from not affecting all skills it has been changed to "all combo moves". Logically this means that

Combo moves = Moves that either generate or use combo points.