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Official Beta Changes and Discussion [updated 9/19/08]Follow

#1 Sep 03 2008 at 2:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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If you feel the need to discuss beta, please do so here. I'm putting up each list of changes as I get them; please don't make new threads for discussion. Keep it concentrated here so we don't flood the forum and push other important threads (i.e. my PvP FAQ, etc) off the front page.

Newest blue posts are at the top.

MMO-Champion wrote:
Skills
Combat
  • Gouge awards one combo point once again.
  • Subtlety
  • Tricks of the Trade now costs 15 energy.

  • Talents
    Assassination
  • Hunger for Blood now only attempt to remove a Bleed effect. (Old - any harmful physical effect)
  • Deadly Brew now only has a chance to apply Crippling poison
  • Improved Poisons now increases the chance to apply Instant and Deadly poison to your target by 2/4/6/8/10% (Down from 3/6/9/12/15%)
  • Combat
  • Savage Combat now also increases your total attack power by 2/4%.
  • Vitality has been changed now increases your Energy renegeration rate by 3/6/10%.
  • Aggression has been moved from Tier 6 to Tier 5 and changed to 5 points. Now Increases the damage of your Sinister Strike, Backstab, and Eviscerate abilities by 2/4/6/8/10%.
  • Endurance now increases your total stamina by 2/4% additionally from the Sprint / Evasion cooldown reduction
  • Subtlety
  • Filthy Tricks now the cooldown of your Tricks of the Trade and Distract abilities by 5/10 secs and Preparation by 2.5/5 min.


  • Kalgan wrote:
    Changes that should be in the next beta push. Bear in mind that some of these may change somewhat or entirely, and there may also be other changes coming in subsequent pushes:

    Orc
    - Hardiness now reduces the duration of stun effects by 15%


    Troll
    - Racial Passive "The Voodoo Shuffle": Reduces the duration of all movement impairing effects by 15%. Trolls be flippin' out mon!

    - Berserking: no longer has an activation cost of energy/rage/etc


    Draenei
    - Gift of the Naaru: now scales based on the higher of either the caster's Attack Power or Spell Power

    - Shadow Resistance: reduces the chance to be hit by Shadow spells by 2%


    Dwarf
    - Frost Resistance: reduces the chance to be hit by Frost spells by 2%

    - Racial Passive "Mace Specialization": Expertise with Maces and Two-Handed Maces increased by 5.


    Undead
    - Shadow Resistance: reduces the chance to be hit by Shadow spells by 1% (yes, this is lower than the other resistance racials)

    - Will of the Forsaken: removes any fear, sleep, or charm effect (no longer has a lasting immunity).


    Night Elf
    - Quickness: reduces the chance to be hit by melee or ranged attacks by 2%

    - Nature Resistance: reduces the chance to be hit by Nature spells by 3%


    Tauren
    - Endurance: now scales based on base health, to be tuned to approximately a 5% heath increase if the player were wearing green quality gear

    - Nature Resistance: reduces the chance to be hit by Nature spells by 2%


    Gnome
    - Escape Artist: the freeing effect can no longer be resisted

    - Arcane Resistance: reduces the chance to be hit by Arcane spells by 2%


    Blood Elf
    - Mana Tap: ability removed (partially integrated into Arcane Torrent)

    - Arcane Torrent: restores 15 energy, 15 runic power, or 6% of mana to the Blood Elf (along with the current 2s silence effect)

    - Magic Resistance: reduces the chance to be hit by spells by 2%


    Human
    - Perception: changed to a passive, now grants one character level of passive stealth detection

    - Racial "The Fall of Humanity": Feign death which may trick enemies into ignoring you. Any threat is restored versus enemies still in combat upon cancellation of this effect. 5min cooldown

    - Racial Passive "Human Supremacy": The dominance of Humanity is evidenced by having one more racial bonus than normal. Actually, make that two counting this one. (just a tooltip, no actual functionality)

    - The Human Spirit: spirit bonus lowered to 5%


    MMO-Champion wrote:
    Assassination
    Skills
    - Dismantle required level changed from 75 to 20. Max range changed to 5 Yards.

    Talents
    - Hunger For Blood damage bonus reduced from 5% to 3%. Now works with any harmful physical effect affecting you.
    - Cut to the Chase now affects all Eviscerate and Envenom attacks. (Old - Only affected critical strikes)
    - Blood Spatter has been moved from Tier 9 to Tier 2. Now Increases the damage caused by your Garrote and Rupture abilities by 15/30%. (Old - 10/20%)
    - Focused Attacks has been moved from Tier 9 to Tier 8.
    - Turn the Tables has been moved from Tier 8 to Tier 9.
    - Find Weakness changed from 5 points to 3 points. Now increases the damage of all offensive abilities by 3/6/9% (Old - Your finishing moves increase the damage of all your offensive abilities by 2/4/6/8/10% for 10 sec.)
    - Vigor has been moved from Tier 7 to Tier 3.
    - Deadened Nerves changed from 5 points to 3 points. Now reduces all damage taken by 2/4/6%. (Old - 1/2/3/4/5%)
    - Master Poisoner moved from Tier 6 to Tier 9 and changed from 2 to 3 ranks. Now Increases the critical hit chance of all attacks made against any target you have poisoned by 1/2/3% and reduces the duration of all Poison effects applied to you by 17/34/50%. (Old - Reduces the chance your poisons will be resisted by 5/10% and reduces the duration of all Poison effects applied to you by 25/50%.)
    - Relentless Strikes has been removed. (And moved to Subtlety)
    - Improved Expose Armor now Reduces the energy cost of your Expose Armor ability by 5/10. (Old - Increases the duration of your Expose Armor ability by 25/50%.)
    - Lethality now increases the critical strike damage of all combo moves by 6/12/18/24/30%. (Old - Didn't affect all skills)
    *New Talent* - Overkill (Tier 7) - Abilities used while stealthed and for 6 seconds after breaking stealth cost 10 less energy.

    Combat
    Skills
    - Sprint cooldown reduced from 5 to 3 minutes.
    - Evasion cooldown reduced from 5 to 3 minutes.

    Talents
    - Murder Spree has been renamed to Killing Spree. Range has been changed to 10 yards.
    - Prey on the Weak now increases the damage of all your critical strike damage by 4/8/12/16/20%. (Old - Only affected normal melee critical strike, increased by 5/10/15/20/25%)
    - Unfair Advantage changed to Whenever you dodge an attack you gain an Unfair Advantage, striking back for 50/100% of your main hand weapon's damage. (Old - Whenever you critically hit an enemy or dodge an attack you gain an Unfair Advantage, increasing your chance to critically hit and dodge by 1/2% for 8 sec.)
    - Suprirse Attacks now also affects Hemorrhage.
    - Stay of Execution has been removed.
    *New Talent* - Blood Poisoning (Tier 9) - All physical damage caused to enemies you have poisoned is increased by 1/2%.
    - Throwing Specialization now affects Fan of Knives as well.
    - Nerves of Steel changed to Reduces damage taken while affected by Stun and Fear effects by 15/30%. (Old - Reduces the duration of all Stun and Fear effects by 15/30%.)
    - Mace Specialization changed to - Your attacks with maces ignore up to 3/6/9/12/15% of your opponent's armor. (Old - Increases the damage dealt by your critical strikes with maces by 2/4/6/8/10%.)
    - Fist Weapon Specialization has been removed.
    - Dagger Specialization has been moved from Tier 4 to Tier 3 and now affects Fist Weapons as well.
    - Dual Wield Specialization has been moved from Tier 4 to Tier 1.
    - Endurance now reduces the cooldown of your Sprint and Evasion abilities by 30 sec/1 min. (Old - 45 sec/1.5 min)
    - Riposte now awards 1 Combo Point.
    - Improved Sprint changed from Tier 3 to Tier 4.
    - Improved Slice and Dice changed from 3 points to 2 points. Now Increases the duration of your Slice and Dice ability by 25/50%. (Old - 15/30/45%)
    - Deflection changed from 5 points to 3 points. Now Increases your Parry chance by 2/4/6%. (Old - 1/2/3/4/5%)
    - Precision now also increases the hit chance of your poison attacks.
    - Lightning Reflexes moved from Tier 1 to Tier 4.

    Subtlety
    Skills
    - Tricks of the Trade range changed to 20 yards. (Reminder - The current party or raid member becomes the target of your Tricks of the Trade. The threat caused by your next attack and all actions taken for 6 sec afterwards will be transferred to the target. In addition, all damage caused by the target is increased by 15% during this time.)
    - Cloak of Shadow cooldown increased from 1 to 1.5 minute.
    - Vanish cooldown reduced from 5 to 3 minutes.
    - Disarm Trap increased from 5 to 20 yards. Casting time reduced from 2 to 1 second.

    Talents
    -Shadow Dance changed - Enter the Shadow Dance, allowing the use of Sap, Garrotte, Ambush, Cheap Shot, Premeditation, Pickpocket and Disarm Trap regardless of being stealthed. Those abilities each gain a cooldown of 2 sec. Lasts 10 sec. Instant, 2 min cooldown. (Old - Instantly enter stealth and begin the Shadow Dance. For 9 sec you will reenter stealth every 3 secs.)
    - Slaughter from the Shadows now also reduces the energy cost of your Hemorrhage by 1/2/3/4/5.
    - Wrongfully Accused has been removed.
    - Premeditation cooldown reduced from 2 minutes to 20 seconds.
    - Preparation doesn't affect Premeditation anymore.
    - Elusiveness moved from Tier 4 to Tier 3. Now Reduces the cooldown of your Vanish and Blind abilities by 30/60 sec and your Cloak of Shadows ability by 15/30 sec.
    - Serrated blades moved Tier 4 to Tier 3.
    - Initiative moved from Tier 3 to Tier 4. Now Gives you a 33/66/100% (Old - 25/50/75%) chance to add an additional combo point to your target when using your Ambush, Garrote, or Cheap Shot ability.
    - Improved Ambush moved from Tier 3 to Tier 4. Changed from 3 points to 2 points. Now increases the critical strike chance of your Ambush ability by 25/50%. (Old - 15/30/45%)
    - Camouflage changed from 5 points to 3 points. Now Increases your speed while stealthed by 5/10/15% (Old - 3/6/9/12/15%) and reduces the cooldown of your Stealth ability by 2/4/6 sec. (Old - 1/2/3/4/5 Sec)
    - Master of Deception Rank 4 and 5 have been removed.
    - Opportunity has been changed from 5 points to 2 points. Now increases the damage dealt when striking from behind with your Backstab, Mutilate, Garrote and Ambush abilities by 10/20%. (Old - 4/8/12/16/20%)
    *New Talent* - Filthy Tricks (Tier 9) - Reduces the cooldown of your Tricks of the Trade and Distract abilities by 5/10 secs.
    *New Talent* - Relentless Strikes (Tier 1, Moved from Assassination Tree) - Your finishing moves have a 4/8/12/16/20% chance per combo point to restore 25 energy.


    Gamnin wrote:
    General
    - Cloak of Shadows cooldown changed to 1.5 min.
    - Disarm Trap range increased to 20 yds, cast time reduced to 1 sec, now requires stealth.
    - (NEW – Level 75) Tricks of the Trade: The current party or raid member becomes the target of your Tricks of the Trade. The threat caused by your next attack and all actions taken for 6 sec afterwards will be transferred to the target. In addition, all damage caused by the target is increased by 15% during this time. 30 sec cooldown. (Surprise! :) Yes, this is the new group/raid utility ability. We haven’t put any stacking protection on it yet but we’ll need one type of solution or other to prevent the need for 5 rogue Trick rotations. Note also that you cannot use this ability on yourself.)

    Assassination
    - Vigor moved to Tier 3.
    - Relentless Strikes moved to Subtlety Tier 1, made 5 ranks for 4/8/12/16/20% chance.
    - Murder moved to Tier 6, now increases damage by 2/4%.
    - (NEW – Tier 7) Overkill: Abilities used while stealthed and for 6 seconds after breaking stealth cost 10 less energy.
    - Focused Attacks and Turn the Tables have swapped locations.
    - Master Poisoner moved to Tier 9, no longer increases chance to hit with poison attacks, now increases the critical hit chance of all attacks made against any target you have poisoned by 1/2/3% and reduces the duration of all Poison effects applied to you by 17/34/50%. (This does not stack with the Paladin talent Heart of the Crusader.)
    - Hunger for Blood duration increased to 30 seconds.

    Combat
    - Precision now also increases chance to hit with poison attacks by 1/2/3/4/5%.
    - Nerves of Steel will now reduce damage taken while stunned or feared by 15/30% rather than reducing duration.
    - Improved Sprint moved to Tier 4.
    - Blade Twisting now slows movement speed by 70%.
    - Mace Specialization now ignores 3/6/9/12/15% of target’s armor.
    - Throwing Specialization now also has a chance to interrupt target when Fan of Knives is used.
    - Unfair Advantage: Whenever you dodge an attack you strike back for 50/100% of your main hand weapon’s damage.
    - Stay of Execution removed, replaced with Blood Poisoning.
    - (NEW – Tier 9) Blood Poisoning: All physical damage caused to enemies you have poisoned is increased by 1/2%.
    - Prey on the Weak now increases critical strike damage of all attacks.
    - Killing Spree is the new name for Murder Spree and should be working much better very soon.

    Subtlety
    - Shadowstep will no longer be usable while rooted.
    - Elusiveness moved to Tier 3, now reduces cooldown of Cloak of Shadows by 15/30 sec.
    - Premeditation cooldown reduced to 20 sec.
    - Preparation no longer refreshes the cooldown to Premeditation.
    - Master of Deception reduced to 3 ranks.
    - Opportunity reduces to 2 ranks for 10/20%.
    - Camouflage reduced to 3 ranks for 5/10/15% speed and 2/4/6 sec off the cooldown of Stealth.
    - Initiative moved to Tier 4, increased to 33/66/100% chance.
    - Improved Ambush moved to Tier 4, reduced to 2 ranks for 25/50%.
    - Serrated Blades moved to Tier 3.
    - Wrongfully Accused replaced with Filthy Tricks.
    - (NEW – Tier 9) Filthy Tricks: Reduces the cooldown of your Tricks of the Trade and Distract abilities by 5/10 sec.
    - Slaughter from the Shadows now also reduces the energy cost of your Hemorrhage ability by 1/2/3/4/5.
    - Shadow Dance redesigned, now allows the use of Sap, Garrote, Ambush, Cheap Shot, Premeditation, Pickpocket and Disarm Trap regardless of being stealthed. Those abilities all gain a cooldown of 2 sec. Lasts 10 sec.

    Gamnin wrote:
    General

    - Quality of life improvements: Removal of various reagents (Thieves’ Tools, Flash Powder) as well as a Poisons skill change. We’re removing the Poisons skill and making the finished poisons available on vendors for purchase. This should free up a fair amount of bag space.
    - Envenom: Now also increases your chance to apply poisons by 25% for 2-6 seconds (based on combo points).
    - Wounding Poison: No longer stacks. The first application now reduces healing by 50%.
    - Anesthetic Poison: Now also removes one Enrage effect from the target.
    - Evasion, Sprint, Vanish: Cooldown reduced to 3 minutes. (Talents that reduce cooldown take this down to 2 minutes.)
    - Cloak of Shadows: Cooldown increased to 2 minutes. (Elusiveness now reduces this cooldown to 1 minute.)
    - A new level 75 ability has been designed. This is going to be one of the bigger teases as we’re not quite ready to talk about this one yet. I will say that will add some much needed group utility.
    - Fan of Knives: Weapon normalization to equalize effectiveness regardless of weapons carried.

    Assassination

    - Mutilate: No longer requires you be behind the target.
    - Relentless Strikes: Talent is too “required” and will be made more accessible. Vigor will replace its spot in the tree and a new talent will be created to fill Vigor’s spot.
    - Find Weakness: Made passive to cut down on the number of triggered effects that either don’t affect gameplay or affect it in a negative way.
    - Cut to the Chase: No longer requires a critical Eviscerate or Envenom. The finisher just has to land.
    - Hunger for Blood: Now removes any harmful physical effect instead of Bleed or Magic effects. Bleed effects will still be removed (as all are physical) as well as effects like Mortal Strike, Aimed Shot, Expose Armor etc…

    Combat

    - Riposte: Now generates a combo point.
    - Mace Specialization: This will grant armor penetration when using a mace. (The warrior talent will as well.)
    - Deflection: Reduced to 3 ranks for 2/4/6% parry. This should soften the prereq for Riposte.
    - Fist Weapon Specialization: Merged with Dagger Specialization.
    - Dagger Specialization: Renamed Close Quarters Combat, moved to tier 3.
    - Dual Wield Specialization: Moved to tier 1. Lightning Reflexes swapped locations with it and still needs a little more “oomph”.
    - Unfair Advantage and Stay of Execution: Change to more offensive/utility (read mobility) talents. Too much defense on this tier.
    - Killing Spree: Weapon normalization to equalize effectiveness regardless of weapons carried.

    Subtlety

    - More attractive Tier 1 to draw in all types of builds.
    - Fewer dagger specific talents to allow additional build options.
    - Wrongfully Accused: Reviewed. This talent doesn’t fit well in this location. May be moved lower and/or redesigned.
    - Shadow Dance: A bit awkward at the moment. Due for some polish and some design tweaks.

    Nethaera wrote:
    Rogues

    -Blade Twisting (Combat) now cause all damaging melee attacks to have a 10% chance to daze for 4/8 seconds.
    - Deadened Nerves (Assassination) now reduces all damage taken by 1/2/3/4/5%.
    - Energy regeneration should now be smoother.
    - Fleet Footed (Assassination) now reduces duration of movement impairing effects by 25/50% rather than increasing resist chance.
    - Gouge is now only 1 rank and causes damage based on attack power.
    - Kick is now only 1 rank and no longer causes damage.
    - Mace Specialization (Combat) no longer stuns enemies and instead increases critical damage bonus by 2/4/6/8/10%.
    - Nerves of Steel (Combat) now reduces the duration of all Stun and Fear effects by 15/30%.
    - Pick Lock and Disarm Trap no longer require Thieve's Tools.
    - Premeditation (Subtlety) duration increased to 20 seconds.
    - Riposte (Combat) now slows the target's melee attacks by 20% instead of disarming them.
    - Setup (Subtlety) chance to gain a combo point increased to 33/66/100%.
    - Vanish no longer requires the reagent Flash Powder.
    - Vile Poisons (Assassination) reduced to 3 ranks, now increases damage of poisons and Envenom by 7/14/20% and increases dispel resistance by 10/20/30%.


    Wowhead has a talent calculator up here. It is kept fairly up to date with how changes are made as builds go live on beta, ergo changes listed here may or may not be reflected in the talent calculator.

    MMO-Champion is your best source for this information, though I will be keeping this thread updated for those that don't check the beta forums or MMO-Champ for the most recent updates.

    Thank you.

    Edited, Sep 19th 2008 10:30pm by Theophany
    #2 Sep 03 2008 at 2:37 PM Rating: Good
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    Reserved for future info.
    #3 Sep 03 2008 at 2:37 PM Rating: Good
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    Also reserved for future info.
    #4 Sep 03 2008 at 2:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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    Due to the fact the wowhead calculator is fairly outdated and just because I can, I'm going to write the link to the calculator I conjured up following those notes down here.

    http://www.war-tools.com/t57752.html

    Updated as of 06-09-2008.
    Updated as of 11-09-2008.
    Updated as of 18-09-2008.
    Updated as of 21-09-2008.
    Updated as of 25-09-2008.


    Edited, Sep 6th 2008 6:48pm by Mozared

    Edited, Sep 11th 2008 2:11pm by Mozared

    Edited, Sep 18th 2008 9:20pm by Mozared

    Edited, Sep 21st 2008 3:03pm by Mozared

    Edited, Sep 25th 2008 3:37pm by Mozared
    #5 Sep 03 2008 at 2:51 PM Rating: Good
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    Thanks for that, Mozared. A lot of people have problems imagining what the trees will look like (I'm not one of those people, but...), so it's much appreciated that you'd take the time to do that.

    If you're up to the task of keeping one updated and in the thread, I'd be very grateful (as I've tried using wow-tools a few times and I'm too dumb to use it). You can just edit it into your post, since it's right after the first three posts that I'll be using on blue posts.
    #6 Sep 03 2008 at 3:53 PM Rating: Decent
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    Muh build:
    @#%^ the ShS nerf...

    Oh and rate ups Mozared. nice calculator.



    Edited, Sep 3rd 2008 4:50pm by MYteddy
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    #7 Sep 03 2008 at 4:15 PM Rating: Decent
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    Nice job moz, underestimated you I think. Thanks for the single thread Theo. Rateups inc.
    #8 Sep 03 2008 at 6:12 PM Rating: Decent
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    Wow, that is quite a big change to Shadowstep.

    So, are these talents going live on normal servers with that expansion prep update in a few weeks?

    If so I'll start working on getting s2 daggers.
    #9 Sep 03 2008 at 6:42 PM Rating: Decent
    #10 Sep 03 2008 at 6:57 PM Rating: Good
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    ACEJester wrote:
    Wow, that is quite a big change to Shadowstep.

    So, are these talents going live on normal servers with that expansion prep update in a few weeks?

    If so I'll start working on getting s2 daggers.

    Well, it's more likely a month or two before we'll see these live.

    But to be honest, they're doing the rogue-focused changes right now on the beta realm, so expect talents to continue to change for at least another week or two.
    #11 Sep 03 2008 at 8:07 PM Rating: Decent
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    Raid Mutilate spec I'm thinking of...

    Hopefully they get their heads out of their ---es about the Relentless Strikes change so I can max Master Poisoner in this spec =/
    #12 Sep 03 2008 at 8:14 PM Rating: Good
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    angryempath wrote:
    Raid Mutilate spec I'm thinking of...

    Hopefully they get their heads out of their ---es about the Relentless Strikes change so I can max Master Poisoner in this spec =/

    Cut to the Chase was changed, and is now worthwhile in a raid mutilate build.
    #13 Sep 03 2008 at 9:00 PM Rating: Excellent
    I also do news articles on these as well so the changes and updates for each class tend to be in both the forums and the main page.

    here's the current article on this update: http://wow.allakhazam.com/story.html?story=14910
    #14 Sep 03 2008 at 10:19 PM Rating: Decent
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    Yeah, I just like seeing it all in one place, and I have this forum, my journal, and the general forum bookmarked, and not the news page.

    Plus, it's nice for rogues that just check the forum every once in a while to see a concise list of the changes that affect just our class.
    #15 Sep 03 2008 at 11:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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    Thanks for posting all that in one place Theo, good karma on it's way.

    I get the feeling that raiding rogues will be fighting over the newly viable Muti raid-slot. Literally. Duels for the Muti spot will replace 1v1 outside Ironforge and Orgrimmar. Locks and frost mages will start dueling each other out of boredom and will then post long QQs on the o-boards about nerfing Sl/Sl or Shatter combos rather than ShS or Cheat Death. Many druids will retire from arena claiming a dearth of rogue partners (who are all out raiding) and warriors will rejoice at finally being aggressively sought after as 2s partners. The gem economy will spiral out of control as +resil and +ap gems flood the market and +agi and +hit gems are sold for more than sunmotes while enhance shammys all start fighting for healing slots just to see the content.

    These are massive changes my friends! Beware for what you ask!!!

    Hugs.
    #16 Sep 04 2008 at 1:24 AM Rating: Good
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    I'm just giddy that I can remove MS, Aimed Shot, Wing Clip, Deep Wounds (!), Rend (!), Entrapment (!), Frost Trap Aura (!), etc, for free and get a 5% damage bonus out of it.

    In the next 2-3 weeks I'll be buying the S3 shanker/shiv/mutilator set since I'll cap out on points.
    #17 Sep 04 2008 at 2:28 AM Rating: Good
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    I have to tell you - it's really weird seeing Theo so excited about a Mut build. Not that it's not understandable .. it's a very good build now ... but as I said, it's just plain weird seeing though excited about it ... sorta make the universe seem all unbalanced ;-)
    #18 Sep 04 2008 at 2:35 AM Rating: Decent
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    I'm actually a huge mut fan, I always have been, and I always will be. In S2 when I started out in arena, I played mut despite people telling me combat maces was better (and I was combat maces at the time) and would have gotten Rival or more probably Duelist (2003 or 2002 was my highest rating) had I not left my team, not realizing that you need 30% of the games at the end of the season to get a title.

    The reason I've been so adamant about ShS is because it's been the best PvP spec, and IMO it's got some of the most skill involved in mastering it.

    Don't fear, I'll never hang up my swords, but I'm going to be trying out mut and ShD (shadow dance) daggers as well as ShD swords.
    #19 Sep 04 2008 at 3:57 AM Rating: Good
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    Overlord Theophany wrote:

    Don't fear, I'll never hang up my swords, but I'm going to be trying out mut and ShD (shadow dance) daggers as well as ShD swords.


    Phew, order is (sorta) restored.

    Quick question .. there's a lot of negative commentary on some other boards about how terribad combat has become for raiding (things like Unfair advantage and nerves of steel relying on you being hit to be any benefit) ... that it's worse than Assass now for raiding, and worse than Sub for PvP, making it a dead tree.

    Not having had much time to look too much at the trees, and more to the point, not having had exposure to Beta, how would you see combat going forward, firstly as a raiding, and secondly as a levelling spec. I enjoy combat for levelling (I haven't raided much - 3 or 4 Kara runs at most), it gives me what I want from my rogue, but I generally have taken heart from the fact that it's the best spec for playing how I play.

    I would hate to be playing a spec which was clearly inferior to another spec, just because it's combat.
    #20 Sep 04 2008 at 4:04 AM Rating: Good
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    Thanks for all the love people, can understand Thomas' post well with this being the first time of me actually doing something that's of use to the community. As for keeping it up to date, I'll try and adept it as soon as I find out more changes.

    On a sidenote, what the hell is Blizz thinking with Filthy Tricks? I'm pretty sure I understood it right, but... a tier 9 talent that lowers the cooldown on distract and our new misdirection? If there's two rogue abilities you don't need a lower CD on it's those two?
    #21 Sep 04 2008 at 7:09 AM Rating: Decent
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    Theophany wrote:
    Cut to the Chase was changed, and is now worthwhile in a raid mutilate build.

    I agree, unfortunately I would need another 4-5 points in Assassination to cap it, there are tough choices to make =/
    (I want to keep Blood Splatter capped if I can)

    Given Mutilate spec's lack of energy I thought that Reckless Strikes was still a necessity.
    Would you recommend dropping Dagger Specialization (aka Close Quarters Combat) to get Cut To The Chase?
    Or drop Opportunity and Improved Slice N Dice?
    I guess this will be easier if they un-nerf Reckless Strikes ><

    I'm also curious if you know if Eviscerate will "not suck" in WotLK.
    I guess I would probably use Envenom anyway since I already have points in Vile Poisons and its going to have the added effect of +50% chance to apply poisons (this Muti build will use dual Instant Poisons to apply Deadly Poisons with Deadly Brew).
    #22 Sep 04 2008 at 9:48 AM Rating: Excellent
    Overlord Theophany wrote:
    Yeah, I just like seeing it all in one place, and I have this forum, my journal, and the general forum bookmarked, and not the news page.

    Plus, it's nice for rogues that just check the forum every once in a while to see a concise list of the changes that affect just our class.


    I agree, I like having the stuff in the forums since so many come here first. Just saying I add it to the main page as well. Some people are weird like me and go there in between forum posts Smiley: grin
    #23 Sep 04 2008 at 10:50 AM Rating: Decent
    *****
    13,048 posts
    Couple thing in the last few posts that I'm too lazy to go through and quote, but I'll still reply to:

    1) Combat isn't weak. Some people have been whining about it, but they don't understand how powerful of a talent Prey on the Weak is. If a RED metagem is worth approximately ~100+ DPS for the 3% crit damage, how much do you think 25% crit damage is worth? Mutilate still has a fair distance to gain ground against combat.

    2) CttC is a far better talent than both CCC and Precision. It basically gives you free damage and an opportunity to use a 5e/5r rotation, or something like that. You will never have to use SnD again unless it falls off, after the first 1pt SnD. That's how powerful the talent is now.

    3) Eviscerate scaling is huge in WotLK. People have been getting 6k (i.e. 6000 damage) crits in PvE. That's easily double what I'm normally getting with 2000+ AP at 70, and I'm pretty sure that these guys have either less AP than me, or about the same.
    #24 Sep 04 2008 at 10:55 AM Rating: Decent
    *
    177 posts
    Thats pretty huge, is envenom scaling like eviscerate? I've seen 6k envenoms already, but only maybe 3kish eviscerates. I can only imagine what envenom could do if it goes up the same way.
    #25 Sep 04 2008 at 11:03 AM Rating: Decent
    *****
    13,048 posts
    I sincerely doubt it. They went in and changed Eviscerates AP scaling, so that it gets dramatically more "oomph" from AP.
    #26 Sep 04 2008 at 12:38 PM Rating: Good
    Theo if I'm not mistaken isn't the new eviscerate scaling greater then that of the rupture scaling? That's what it says on my source anyway

    Link here

    EDIT:

    Achievements - Removal of the titles for the Realm First Feats of Strength

    Quote from: Tigole (Source)

    We've decided to remove the titles for the Realm First Feats of Strength that are associated with reaching level 80. We've also removed the titles associated with the Realm First Feats of Strength associated with gaining 450 skill in the professions and secondary skill. Lastly, we've removed the title associated with Realm First to accomplish the Northrend Vanguard achievement.

    Realm First boss kill achievements will still grant a title.

    As a side note, Beta characters will retain their titles or end up displaying a broken title. This won't carry over to the live realms but it is merely a symptom of removing these titles from the game. If we were to do another wipe of the achievement sys

    Edited, Sep 4th 2008 4:36pm by imanohealu
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