i need help with the current wotlk beta talents.
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/druid/talents2.html?tal=05320003000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000023003331203152053105331351
why shouldn't i put those 13 points into balance? healing touch being currently useless, and with the addition of nourish, living seed, gift of the earth mother, replenish... why should i take empowered touch, naturalist, or tranquil spirit? the lack of natural perfection is something i seriously considered -- but i'm a pve player at heart. i would drop improved tranquility and replenish in order to take natural perfection and nature's grace if i were more concerned about pvp.
in pve, i don't believe the loss of nature's grace to be seriously important because regrowth's cast time is already quite comfortable at 2 seconds and everything else i cast is instant (hots, swiftmend, the ultra-rare NS + HT...). is it possible that nourish will be such a world-shaking addition to my book that my treeform becomes just another flash-spam-style heal bot?
in my opinion, nature's splendor is simply absurd and is almost certain to be nerfed before live. the effects of moonglow and tranquil spirit gave me pause. if they stack additively (as almost nothing does in wow), they would make healing touch 19% cheaper -- a very attractive adjustment. there is, essentially, a division between hot-style healing and big-chunk (priest) style healing. of course every druid would still use hots (earthmother alone would ensure this), but i'm nervous about this newfangled nourish stuff. by giving us nourish, it's as if druids must choose between using hots as the majority of healing done, or resorting to flash-spam like any other healing class. is this a hint that hots alone will no longer be enough HPS in wotlk? what about mana and long fights? the new talents seem to point toward healers having massive amounts of surplus mana (more than i already do with the recent changes to spirit). my educated guess is that spells will get more expensive and we'll be casting things faster as spell haste, nature's grace, nourish and earthmother allow us to pump out mana by the bucket.
what about the sneaky combinations like replenish with nature's splendor? can anyone take a guess at the numerative effects of those two talents in tandem? it's being rumored that tree of life aura will be competing with crusader aura for a buff slot -- and that ToL aura will no longer scale with spirit (providing a flat 3% increase to healing received instead). does nature's mastery and natural perfection make nourish-spam very attractive with living seed and gift of the earthmother?
it's so frustrating to see incredible things on the horizon and only be able to guess how it will all be when 3.0 hits!
- Forums
- World of Warcraft
- Class Discussion
- holy eat your heart out, batman!
holy eat your heart out, batman!Follow
Scholar
32 posts
A little aside: Isn't Healing Touch castable in tree form come WotLK? The tooltip now says "Restoration" spells.
That build has cookie cutter resto druid written all over it, and I want every single talent and proc that goes with it.
Resto is going to be freakish. I think now that resto druids are going to be given a choice if they want to burst heal or hot heal now. With things like the reduced global cooldown, increase in the length of hots by 30%, plus a glyph to increase the tic of bloom by one more second, its going to be possible to roll 5 stacks of lifebloom or more now.
It's going to be awesome.
Resto is going to be freakish. I think now that resto druids are going to be given a choice if they want to burst heal or hot heal now. With things like the reduced global cooldown, increase in the length of hots by 30%, plus a glyph to increase the tic of bloom by one more second, its going to be possible to roll 5 stacks of lifebloom or more now.
It's going to be awesome.
yes, all restoration spells will be castable in treeform -- and decurse as well! this includes nourish, healing touch, flourish and all the ones we've always been able to. however -- only hots will receive the 20% mana cost reduction...
yes, the originally posted build is extremely cookie cutter (if you want to use that term), but that's because it is, for now, the most attractive all-around restoration build for pve raiding. specifically, this build focuses on long fights via sustainable moderate healing throughput. with the changes to allow non-hots castable in treeform, any druid will be able to drop a few healing touches when needed. the swiftmend glyph is an item i'm keeping my eye on too.
keep in mind that healing touch spec isn't really a good choice in pvp because it opens you up to counter spells and keeps you stationary. granted, the movement penalty is being removed from treeform, and with the talents to improve your treeform armor you'll be slightly more durable, but not THAT much.
regrowth will become the premier raid healing spell, and druids stand to be uniquely gifted at their healing versatility. i arranged that spec for traditional hots because so far druids have not needed real burst healing. the theory agrees with practice that hots make burst healing unnecessary. with this one build, a druid should be capable of healing for every role imaginable: pvp (arenas or bg), raid healing, off healing, or main healing.
yes, the originally posted build is extremely cookie cutter (if you want to use that term), but that's because it is, for now, the most attractive all-around restoration build for pve raiding. specifically, this build focuses on long fights via sustainable moderate healing throughput. with the changes to allow non-hots castable in treeform, any druid will be able to drop a few healing touches when needed. the swiftmend glyph is an item i'm keeping my eye on too.
keep in mind that healing touch spec isn't really a good choice in pvp because it opens you up to counter spells and keeps you stationary. granted, the movement penalty is being removed from treeform, and with the talents to improve your treeform armor you'll be slightly more durable, but not THAT much.
regrowth will become the premier raid healing spell, and druids stand to be uniquely gifted at their healing versatility. i arranged that spec for traditional hots because so far druids have not needed real burst healing. the theory agrees with practice that hots make burst healing unnecessary. with this one build, a druid should be capable of healing for every role imaginable: pvp (arenas or bg), raid healing, off healing, or main healing.
When I heal I generally mitigate spike damage with a rejuv/swiftmend because it's between 4k-7.5k depending on a crit or not, or if I need to push even more healing its rejuv/sm, NS/Regrowth/Rejuv or bloom. That way I'm dropping a quick two burst heal with a form of HoT heal to follow.
The one thing I've heard though is some grumbling/rumors as it may not be true is that lifebloom is getting a slight nerf to the amount it tics for. If this be the case, as it alsy may not be the case, I think keeping 3 blooms, rejuve and regrowth is going to be more important than ever.
The one thing I've heard though is some grumbling/rumors as it may not be true is that lifebloom is getting a slight nerf to the amount it tics for. If this be the case, as it alsy may not be the case, I think keeping 3 blooms, rejuve and regrowth is going to be more important than ever.
raid healing a tank, you will generally have a full stack of lifebloom, rejuc and regrowth running on the tank all the time. generally recasting regrowth if you think you need to top him off, and of course paying attention to your lifebloom stacks.
obviously casting rejuv and immediately swiftmending it is inefficient, but just about anything you do in order to deal with burst damage will be inefficient. having all your hots rolling at all times allows you simply swiftmend immediately and then recast rejuv or begin casting regrowth or even healing touch. bursty fights aren't a druid's forte, and this is really only a problem in 5mans and pvp where you can't simply let the paladin take over for a bit.
to tell the truth, druids are simply the best at raid and off heals. because of healing touch's HPS, a few druids who must main heal during bursty fights forgo treeform completely and simply spam healing touch with lifebloom between. this is extremely mana intensive, and paladins/priests have a slightly harder time dealing with raid damage too. it's not that druids are incapable of main healing during bursty fights, but other classes are better at it and we're better at raid heals.
i personally would absolutely never waste nature's swiftness on a regrowth. if you can cast anything instantly, you would always want to use HT instead. even if it broke your treeform.
lifebloom got a nerf of 10% to total healing done i think? most of the nerf was on the periodic healing done, but i don't have any sources and i don't know much more than this really. i haven't cared enough to bother looking into it more since a 10% decrease in my lifebloom is practically nothing and i don't consider lifebloom to be my most important healing anyway. in wotlk, you will have so many other options that lifebloom simply becomes a background mechanic where you unconsciously keep the stack rolling and then spend your attention deciding who to throw regrowth/nourish/rejuv on.
i'm comming out of the closet officially as a regrowth fanatic. ever since the patch where its mana cost was decreased 20%, it's been the golden druid spell that it was always meant to be. in my mind, surpassing even lifebloom (even though i know most of the druid community worships lifebloom as god). in my particular raid group, i off/raid heal with a paladin on main heals. those times i'm not with my close raid group, i'm raiding with various other flash spam, and they universally overwrite lifeblooms -- i've absolutely never seen my hots not be overwritten by flash spam in "pug" raid groups. and even with my close group of friends, sometimes the paladin is just mindlessly spamming flashes and we no doubt step on each other toes once in a while (you got lifebloom in my tank! you got flash in my raid! ... oh... this is quite nice, really...). the psychological effect regrowth has is that other healers in the raid see the target's health bump up and they know that someone else is paying attention. in the end, i find that regrowth simply gets more healing done and of course does it faster than lifebloom. the mana isn't really a problem even though regrowth still isn't as efficient as almighty lifebloom. but with 500+ mp5, i'm never the one who needs the innervate, and i very rarely ever need a pot. my sympathies for the holy paladins out there.
obviously casting rejuv and immediately swiftmending it is inefficient, but just about anything you do in order to deal with burst damage will be inefficient. having all your hots rolling at all times allows you simply swiftmend immediately and then recast rejuv or begin casting regrowth or even healing touch. bursty fights aren't a druid's forte, and this is really only a problem in 5mans and pvp where you can't simply let the paladin take over for a bit.
to tell the truth, druids are simply the best at raid and off heals. because of healing touch's HPS, a few druids who must main heal during bursty fights forgo treeform completely and simply spam healing touch with lifebloom between. this is extremely mana intensive, and paladins/priests have a slightly harder time dealing with raid damage too. it's not that druids are incapable of main healing during bursty fights, but other classes are better at it and we're better at raid heals.
i personally would absolutely never waste nature's swiftness on a regrowth. if you can cast anything instantly, you would always want to use HT instead. even if it broke your treeform.
lifebloom got a nerf of 10% to total healing done i think? most of the nerf was on the periodic healing done, but i don't have any sources and i don't know much more than this really. i haven't cared enough to bother looking into it more since a 10% decrease in my lifebloom is practically nothing and i don't consider lifebloom to be my most important healing anyway. in wotlk, you will have so many other options that lifebloom simply becomes a background mechanic where you unconsciously keep the stack rolling and then spend your attention deciding who to throw regrowth/nourish/rejuv on.
i'm comming out of the closet officially as a regrowth fanatic. ever since the patch where its mana cost was decreased 20%, it's been the golden druid spell that it was always meant to be. in my mind, surpassing even lifebloom (even though i know most of the druid community worships lifebloom as god). in my particular raid group, i off/raid heal with a paladin on main heals. those times i'm not with my close raid group, i'm raiding with various other flash spam, and they universally overwrite lifeblooms -- i've absolutely never seen my hots not be overwritten by flash spam in "pug" raid groups. and even with my close group of friends, sometimes the paladin is just mindlessly spamming flashes and we no doubt step on each other toes once in a while (you got lifebloom in my tank! you got flash in my raid! ... oh... this is quite nice, really...). the psychological effect regrowth has is that other healers in the raid see the target's health bump up and they know that someone else is paying attention. in the end, i find that regrowth simply gets more healing done and of course does it faster than lifebloom. the mana isn't really a problem even though regrowth still isn't as efficient as almighty lifebloom. but with 500+ mp5, i'm never the one who needs the innervate, and i very rarely ever need a pot. my sympathies for the holy paladins out there.
My guild is now in BT & Hyjal and putting a druid on raid heals is always our last resort (except for Pally). Shaman & Priests are 10x better at raid heals with their Circle of Healing (we make sure all our holy priests have CoH) & Chain Heal. Having druids on the MT is fantastic, even in "bursty fights" as you have steady stream of incoming healing which doesn't rely on reacting to the burst damage, especially with Lifebloom ticking every second. If you have 2 or 3 trees on the tank, you almost don't get a chance to see the burst damage because within a second, you have a couple of 3stacks of Lifebloom and quite possibly another HoT ticking.
I agree that if you have to NS then a max rank Healing Touch is the way to go - it is used in an emergency, so you want to make the max heal in the shorest period of time. If on raid heals (bearing in mind I am usually feral) I would tend to lean towards regrowth as well. Otherwise I cast a lifebloom only to see them hit with a heal to max health a second later and I have basically wasted the mana.
Basically, our preferences are :-
Tank Heals - 1. Paladin 2. Druid 3. Priest 4. Shaman
Raid Heals - 1. Shaman 2. Priest 3. Druid 4. Paladin
I agree that if you have to NS then a max rank Healing Touch is the way to go - it is used in an emergency, so you want to make the max heal in the shorest period of time. If on raid heals (bearing in mind I am usually feral) I would tend to lean towards regrowth as well. Otherwise I cast a lifebloom only to see them hit with a heal to max health a second later and I have basically wasted the mana.
Basically, our preferences are :-
Tank Heals - 1. Paladin 2. Druid 3. Priest 4. Shaman
Raid Heals - 1. Shaman 2. Priest 3. Druid 4. Paladin
in large raids, multiple druids stack very well in a way that no other healing class can. however, the majority of players are not in 25-man content. or at least on my server! there's only three guilds in my faction who are in BT and so all my time is spent in 10mans like kara or ZA where we can easily two-heal it. (who cares about progression when wotlk is about to come out? better to farm badges, rep, mats and gold ;-D)
my introduction to priest healing was through a friend who swears by disc/holy builds. naturally this precludes him from getting CoH. but i also do very very few raids with any priests (and even then, almost only with a shadow priest). i can't think of any raid-wide damage that occurs often enough to require CoH or chain heal in 10man content... for everything else, there's mastercard! disc/holy friend believes the endurance provided by going for so much spirit outweighs the "nifty tricks" of deep holy. but then, he likes to be able to pvp and do dailies as well. i don't complain if he can haul his weight in a group =D
in two-healer raids, you're fairly on your own with your respective tank, and all i can say is that my experience does not include multiple druid healers. and i can't think that anyone would say it's easy to deal with burst healing as a solo druid healer... on the other hand, we rock the curator! =D so i don't think your example is quite relevant since situations where you have four or more healers is no longer really about druids specifically... except where it's only the druids doing the healing: and that's a special case where a particular class's healing mechanic is more compatible with itself than any other. 25mans are certainly not the norm on my server.
my introduction to priest healing was through a friend who swears by disc/holy builds. naturally this precludes him from getting CoH. but i also do very very few raids with any priests (and even then, almost only with a shadow priest). i can't think of any raid-wide damage that occurs often enough to require CoH or chain heal in 10man content... for everything else, there's mastercard! disc/holy friend believes the endurance provided by going for so much spirit outweighs the "nifty tricks" of deep holy. but then, he likes to be able to pvp and do dailies as well. i don't complain if he can haul his weight in a group =D
in two-healer raids, you're fairly on your own with your respective tank, and all i can say is that my experience does not include multiple druid healers. and i can't think that anyone would say it's easy to deal with burst healing as a solo druid healer... on the other hand, we rock the curator! =D so i don't think your example is quite relevant since situations where you have four or more healers is no longer really about druids specifically... except where it's only the druids doing the healing: and that's a special case where a particular class's healing mechanic is more compatible with itself than any other. 25mans are certainly not the norm on my server.
Yes, I must agree I was looking at it from a 25-man perspective. Our priest officer used to raid with the holy/discipline spec, but more and more he has come to appreciate the power of circle of healing and now specs it all the time. In 25mans, there is a lot more non-tanks to heal, so the benefit of CoH & Chain Heal really start to shine.
Chain Heal in particular is nice for the melee & tanks in the maiden fight, melee on flare duty for curator, the and raid wide damage in Netherspite. It's nice, but certainly as you say, not as necessary as it is in 25 man situations.
A Shaman with earthshield on is amazing against the spirit bolts in hex-lord. Over all in ZA (with the exception of Bear Boss) there is a lot more raid damage than in Kara, so a shammy is nice in there as well.
Chain Heal in particular is nice for the melee & tanks in the maiden fight, melee on flare duty for curator, the and raid wide damage in Netherspite. It's nice, but certainly as you say, not as necessary as it is in 25 man situations.
A Shaman with earthshield on is amazing against the spirit bolts in hex-lord. Over all in ZA (with the exception of Bear Boss) there is a lot more raid damage than in Kara, so a shammy is nice in there as well.
I hate CoH, it's too hard to stay on top of the healing charts with priests using that. Mind you, I'm just an over-zealous, ultra competetive *******, who always wants to win.
But yeah, druid raid heals is absolute last resort. In my guild I used to be the only resto druid, with my gear nestled between t4-t5 and on 25 mans I never, never was a raid healer. Though I do think druid raid is entirely possible. Now that two more resto druids joined our guild, one with 2100 heals, one with 4/8 t6, and myself at 1979 I feel a little nerfed, but I've consistently outhealed the one with 2100 heals, and the t6 druid just raped my face. I can't compete with spell haste and a 13k mana pool, it sucks.
Personally I don't like coming out of tree form, to get my heals I had to sacrifice a lot of mana regen, I only get to about 300 when raid buffed. So that's why I use the rejuv/sm ns/regrowth to mitigate spike. I know HT is great for kicking out a huge burst heal, but it's seriously way too mana intensive. If you're doing a 25 man, spike damage should be the least of your concern, that should fall onto the shoulders of the pally or priest that is healing the tank with you.
Edit: Rate ups for all you guys, I love when a conversation breaks out like this and doesn't turn into "Blah blah blah, flame flame flame, blah flame blah, flame blah flame."
Edited, Sep 6th 2008 11:05am by ArexLovesPie
But yeah, druid raid heals is absolute last resort. In my guild I used to be the only resto druid, with my gear nestled between t4-t5 and on 25 mans I never, never was a raid healer. Though I do think druid raid is entirely possible. Now that two more resto druids joined our guild, one with 2100 heals, one with 4/8 t6, and myself at 1979 I feel a little nerfed, but I've consistently outhealed the one with 2100 heals, and the t6 druid just raped my face. I can't compete with spell haste and a 13k mana pool, it sucks.
Personally I don't like coming out of tree form, to get my heals I had to sacrifice a lot of mana regen, I only get to about 300 when raid buffed. So that's why I use the rejuv/sm ns/regrowth to mitigate spike. I know HT is great for kicking out a huge burst heal, but it's seriously way too mana intensive. If you're doing a 25 man, spike damage should be the least of your concern, that should fall onto the shoulders of the pally or priest that is healing the tank with you.
Edit: Rate ups for all you guys, I love when a conversation breaks out like this and doesn't turn into "Blah blah blah, flame flame flame, blah flame blah, flame blah flame."
Edited, Sep 6th 2008 11:05am by ArexLovesPie
wow, i had no idea that other druids felt this way!
with me on raid healing, the paladin never has to look away from the tanks. i'm surely a better class to put on raid heals than the paladin, but i really have absolutely no trouble with the task. i've never wished i had chain heal or CoH. i've avoided raids beyond ZA or the extremely rare TK, but i can easily handle the raid heals for eight or nine people in the 10mans, and with only three healers to go around elsewhere, i've never felt pressured.
i have developed a deep appreciation for regrowth, and healers i raid with have developed a sense of patience to allow my hots to work.
i wonder if the only thing that raid heal druids are experiencing is the pressure of healing meters and the bumbling flash spam of other impatient healers. if we educate those we raid with, surely druids would be much happier in their role and more capable for it.
with me on raid healing, the paladin never has to look away from the tanks. i'm surely a better class to put on raid heals than the paladin, but i really have absolutely no trouble with the task. i've never wished i had chain heal or CoH. i've avoided raids beyond ZA or the extremely rare TK, but i can easily handle the raid heals for eight or nine people in the 10mans, and with only three healers to go around elsewhere, i've never felt pressured.
i have developed a deep appreciation for regrowth, and healers i raid with have developed a sense of patience to allow my hots to work.
i wonder if the only thing that raid heal druids are experiencing is the pressure of healing meters and the bumbling flash spam of other impatient healers. if we educate those we raid with, surely druids would be much happier in their role and more capable for it.
When I two man heal in ZA for timers I rarely am the second on the healing chart. I do think that druids raid healing ina small setting, like a 10 man is more efficient and effective vs the 25 man content. It's not hard by any means to roll blooms on the two tanks, and kick out blooms/rejuvs on the other raid members.
As for healing meters for raid healing druids. This is how I would get away from this. Stack spirit and spell haste. You're heals don't have to be crazy high to raid heal I would say its more about how many people can you mitigate the damage across the raid. It seems like having a high spirit, paired with a decent amount of haste would cut your gcd by at least .1 second. Now that may seem small but thats 10 blooms in 9 seconds, so you can hit out an extra bloom in that 10th second.
As for healing meters for raid healing druids. This is how I would get away from this. Stack spirit and spell haste. You're heals don't have to be crazy high to raid heal I would say its more about how many people can you mitigate the damage across the raid. It seems like having a high spirit, paired with a decent amount of haste would cut your gcd by at least .1 second. Now that may seem small but thats 10 blooms in 9 seconds, so you can hit out an extra bloom in that 10th second.
The difference between 10 & 25man, is that in 10mans, you have 2-3 healers, in 25mans, you have 6-8+ healers. That is a lot more healers to overwrite your HoT's on raid heals. It is incredibly frustrating to be on raid heals and seeing all your HoT's getting one tick before someone else heals the person to full :)
I defintely agree that 10main raid heals work well. Generally, you will have one healer on the tank and the other on raid, so the HoTs don't get wasted.
I defintely agree that 10main raid heals work well. Generally, you will have one healer on the tank and the other on raid, so the HoTs don't get wasted.
Recent Visitors: 170
All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (170)
- Forums
- World of Warcraft
- Class Discussion
- holy eat your heart out, batman!
© 2024 Fanbyte LLC