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#1 Sep 02 2008 at 10:14 PM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
General
- Cloak of Shadows cooldown changed to 1.5 min.
- Disarm Trap range increased to 20 yds, cast time reduced to 1 sec, now requires stealth.
- (NEW – Level 75) Tricks of the Trade: The current party or raid member becomes the target of your Tricks of the Trade. The threat caused by your next attack and all actions taken for 6 sec afterwards will be transferred to the target. In addition, all damage caused by the target is increased by 15% during this time. 30 sec cooldown. (Surprise! Yes, this is the new group/raid utility ability. We haven’t put any stacking protection on it yet but we’ll need one type of solution or other to prevent the need for 5 rogue Trick rotations. Note also that you cannot use this ability on yourself.) Assassination - Vigor moved to Tier 3.
- Relentless Strikes moved to Subtlety Tier 1, made 5 ranks for 4/8/12/16/20% chance.
- Murder moved to Tier 6, now increases damage by 2/4%.
- (NEW – Tier 7) Overkill: Abilities used while stealthed and for 6 seconds after breaking stealth cost 10 less energy.
- Focused Attacks and Turn the Tables have swapped locations. - Master Poisoner moved to Tier 9, no longer increases chance to hit with poison attacks, now increases the critical hit chance of all attacks made against any target you have poisoned by 1/2/3% and reduces the duration of all Poison effects applied to you by 17/34/50%. (This does not stack with the Paladin talent Heart of the Crusader.)
- Hunger for Blood duration increased to 30 seconds.

Combat
- Precision now also increases chance to hit with poison attacks by 1/2/3/4/5%.
- Nerves of Steel will now reduce damage taken while stunned or feared by 15/30% rather than reducing duration.
- Improved Sprint moved to Tier 4.
- Blade Twisting now slows movement speed by 70%.
- Mace Specialization now ignores 3/6/9/12/15% of target’s armor.
- Throwing Specialization now also has a chance to interrupt target when Fan of Knives is used.
- Unfair Advantage: Whenever you dodge an attack you strike back for 50/100% of your main hand weapon’s damage. - Stay of Execution removed, replaced with Blood Poisoning.
- (NEW – Tier 9) Blood Poisoning: All physical damage caused to enemies you have poisoned is increased by 1/2%. - Prey on the Weak now increases critical strike damage of all attacks.
- Killing Spree is the new name for Murder Spree and should be working much better very soon.

Subtlety
- Shadowstep will no longer be usable while rooted. - Elusiveness moved to Tier 3, now reduces cooldown of Cloak of Shadows by 15/30 sec.
- Premeditation cooldown reduced to 20 sec. - Preparation no longer refreshes the cooldown to Premeditation. - Master of Deception reduced to 3 ranks.
- Opportunity reduces to 2 ranks for 10/20%.
- Camouflage reduced to 3 ranks for 5/10/15% speed and 2/4/6 sec off the cooldown of Stealth.
- Initiative moved to Tier 4, increased to 33/66/100% chance.
- Improved Ambush moved to Tier 4, reduced to 2 ranks for 25/50%. - Serrated Blades moved to Tier 3.
- Wrongfully Accused replaced with Filthy Tricks.
- (NEW – Tier 9) Filthy Tricks: Reduces the cooldown of your Tricks of the Trade and Distract abilities by 5/10 sec.
- Slaughter from the Shadows now also reduces the energy cost of your Hemorrhage ability by 1/2/3/4/5.
- Shadow Dance redesigned, now allows the use of Sap, Garrote, Ambush, Cheap Shot, Premeditation, Pickpocket and Disarm Trap regardless of being stealthed. Those abilities all gain a cooldown of 2 sec. Lasts 10 sec. Thanks for reading!


Emphasis is mine.

Edited, Sep 3rd 2008 1:10am by Kavekk
#2 Sep 02 2008 at 10:58 PM Rating: Decent
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Ouch, ShS nerf is pretty huge, but Slaughter from the Shadows change combined with Shadow Dance change is also pretty huge.

I'm interested to see if Blade Twisting is just a plain daze that applies on SS/Hemo/etc or is still the low chance to apply.

Either way, I'm seeing mut as my new spec of choice.
#3 Sep 02 2008 at 11:14 PM Rating: Good
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1,463 posts
4 extra talent points needed for - Relentless Strikes moved to Subtlety Tier 1, made 5 ranks for 4/8/12/16/20% chance.

However, I do foresee another change for rogues coming so I will take the waiting route.

If no changes then, I will stay confused :p.
#4 Sep 02 2008 at 11:26 PM Rating: Decent
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13,048 posts
Here's the post I made in the thread on the beta forums with my views:

Theo wrote:
and here i was thinking that we were moving towards making relentless strikes more accessible instead of making a retarded change that will completely ***** with how builds will work.

this is probably one of the dumbest changes, and not only is the talent less accessible, you're bloating the sub tree even further for dagger rogues (or at the very least keeping it the same, which isn't acceptable).

relentless strikes should be a part of every finisher that you want to have the effect (i.e. evis, envenom, rupture, snd, expose, etc minus deadly throw), and you should move dirty tricks to tier 1 with MOD and opportunity.

the shadowstep change is a huge nerf in pvp, though with the change to slaughter from the shadows and shadow dance, i can understand why the change was made.

you're still going to see nearly every pvp rogue as mutilate if things go live as-is though, because you thoroughly nerfed sub by taking out wrongfully accused and making the change to shs.

i understand that you guys are trying to make reasonable changes, but taking a 1 point talent and increasing it to 5 is just going to ***** things up.
#5 Sep 03 2008 at 5:22 AM Rating: Decent
Probab;ly should have chanegd retarded to something les insulting, Blizz posters seem to get mad fast.
#6 Sep 03 2008 at 6:10 AM Rating: Decent
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889 posts
Premeditation on 20 sec cd is really nice.

With the ShS nerf I have to admit that Mutilate is looking like a better PvP spec, with all the new poison talents / buffs to old poison talents.
#7 Sep 03 2008 at 6:35 AM Rating: Decent
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I cry about the ShS nerf, the shadowdance nerf, and the huge Relentless Strikes nerf. They're Making me choose between MoD, relentless as opportunity, which is awful.

The rest looks pretty sweet; I thought I was the only rogue still using Disarm Trap now and then, but no more hunter traps+flare now! Vigor ensures I'll have 120 energy once I get decent PvP gear (unless the set bonus changes ofcourse), and all the subtlety 5-pointers I liked so much have been turned into 3-pointers.

*Goes to find a talent calculator with this*

Edit: Aye, while looking for one I found this on mmo-champion -->
"(NEW) Warbringer is a new one point talent on Tier 9 that allows Charge to be used in combat. Did I mention the change to Improved Charge?"
That's going to hurt.

Edited, Sep 3rd 2008 4:33pm by Mozared
#8 Sep 03 2008 at 7:01 AM Rating: Good
Yeah, those prot wars will really rape us, mozared.

...
#9 Sep 03 2008 at 8:49 AM Rating: Good
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4,684 posts
Does that go into the prot tree? Ah, never mind my worries then *chuckles*

Even though these changes are pretty significant I couldn't find a Talent Calculator... So I made one myself:
http://www.war-tools.com/t57752.html
This may help putting some stuff straight... I first rebuild the mmo-champion talent tree found here, then implemented the changes listed in a blue post, and then implemented the changes listed on the mmo-champion main site and the opening post. I had no idea of the icons that are going to be used for some new talents so I just picked a few fancy looking ones. If I missed anything or messed up, let me know and I'll keep this up to date 'till we get a proper one at mmo-champion.
#10 Sep 03 2008 at 9:19 AM Rating: Default
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61 posts
Quote:
Mace Specialization now ignores 3/6/9/12/15% of target’s armor.


Is it going to be added to the current stun and critical dmg increase? or will it replace it?

If its added, isn't the combat sword gona get replaced with combat mace?

Any chance the other 3 specializations will see some changes?


What do you guys think?
#11 Sep 03 2008 at 9:22 AM Rating: Decent
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811 posts
I thought mace stuns were removed in LK, or was that only for warriors?
#12 Sep 03 2008 at 9:27 AM Rating: Decent
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4,684 posts
I can't quote any source but I'm pretty sure mace stuns get completely removed in WOTLK, hence the armor ignoring.


Quote:
Any chance the other 3 specializations will see some changes?


No idea about sword spec... Maybe it'll be changed to stay on par with mace spec if that turns out to be brilliant, but something tells me they'll leave that be. Dagger and fist spec have already seen changes, they've been combined into "Close Quarters Combat" and are now tier 3 rather than 4.
#13 Sep 03 2008 at 9:52 AM Rating: Decent
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889 posts
Been playing around with a custom made Rogue talent calc that someone made, with the most up to date Blue posts.
(its about 95% accurate from what I've read on mmo-champion.com, Precision and Overkill have not be specifically named as Pre-req's for other talents yet, but that is the only thing I see wrong with it)

The Reckless Strikes change obviously sucks points out of other things now:

My Mutilate spec won't be able to max Master Poisoner in its new, higher tier (I will probably just put the 2 points into Blood Spatter since the crit boost won't stack with other class' crit boost on targets, and more Rupture is always good).

51 points in Combat means no poison talents at all (and probably not Vigor, but you have to drop points into garbage to even get that far)... and at Tier4 in Combat you basically have to put points into defensive/utility talents (not that there's anything wrong with that).

I think they're working really hard to cripple Combat specs =/
After dropping down Dagger Spec and Dual Wield spec to help Mutilate, I half expect to see Combat Potency on Tier4 soon lol

Edited, Sep 3rd 2008 1:52pm by angryempath
#14 Sep 03 2008 at 10:03 AM Rating: Decent
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4,684 posts
On the other hand, it's now fairly well possible to combine Mace spec with Serrated blades, resulting in a nice load of armor ignore. You'd just have to waste points in Camoflage and Opportunity (even though more Garrote helps).
#15 Sep 03 2008 at 10:25 AM Rating: Decent
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889 posts
Yeah, we'll have to wait and see if 15/43/13 is better than 15/51/5, don't forget that Serrated Blades also boosts Rupture damage =)

You'd miss out on Prey on the Weak, but it actually looks like its supposed to buff Combat Dagger specs (Backstab has a high crit chance if you get Pucturing Wounds)

Filthy Tricks seems comically useless that far into the Sub tree though >_>

I knew they would buff the duration of Hunger for Blood, but I still don't see people using it in PvE in a Mutilate spec, given the energy cost.

Edited, Sep 3rd 2008 2:39pm by angryempath
#16 Sep 03 2008 at 11:07 AM Rating: Good
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2,680 posts
Ok, maybe I'm crazy. But for raiding I'm seeing 1 muti rogue, 1 combat rogue, 1 BM hunter and 1 enhance shammy as THE physical DPS group. Just toss in a ret pally, arms warrior or another hunter and yer done. I'm sure things will change before launch, but as things stand now, physical DPS is getting a lot of love.

Am I missing something?
#17 Sep 03 2008 at 11:08 AM Rating: Decent
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13,048 posts
tkw wrote:
Quote:
Mace Specialization now ignores 3/6/9/12/15% of target’s armor.


Is it going to be added to the current stun and critical dmg increase? or will it replace it?

If its added, isn't the combat sword gona get replaced with combat mace?

Any chance the other 3 specializations will see some changes?


What do you guys think?

Wow, pay more attention.

Mace specs of all types were removed 2-3 builds ago.

As far as current build goes, I'm still pissed. Blizzard did the whole, "lol we're gonna make Relentless Strikes more accessible" then they make it five ******* points?

Seriously?

There's been a huge outcry on the beta forum about it, so I'm fairly certain it'll get changed, but who knows.
#18 Sep 03 2008 at 11:46 AM Rating: Decent
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61 posts
Quote:
Mace specs of all types were removed 2-3 builds ago.


Damn, I sure missed a big one there.
But I'm still getting maced by rogues in BGs.
#19 Sep 03 2008 at 12:13 PM Rating: Default
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13,048 posts
tkw wrote:
Quote:
Mace specs of all types were removed 2-3 builds ago.


Damn, I sure missed a big one there.
But I'm still getting maced by rogues in BGs.

You're a ******* moron.

Does BETA mean nothing to you?

We get a new beta build every 4-6 days.
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