How well does Ret Pally hold up 1vs1 against the other class? Like where does it fit in the balance of "this class usually owns this class, yet this class owns this class."?
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Casual rundown on what i've found to be the case: (Remembering that how good the player is is much more important than class, and to some extent gear)
Mages: Ice are my least favourite match up. Ice blocking your bubble, spellstealing your BoFreedom. I can't beat a really well played ice mage in a duel, and will often dread my rogue partner dying before me in a match against one. Fire mages can be tricky, but have less CDs and are a bit squishier.
Priests: Disc priests are another nightmare. Even if you are quick enough to interrupt Mass dispell, it's a spammable ability. And failing to interrupt the big heals means a loss as well. Try hitting Avenging wrath before it can be dispelled for huge damage. Spriests are much softer targets, your burst should annihilate them before mana burn can mess you up too much.
Warlocks: Another tough match, but the easier of those i've mentioned. When howl of terror hits, wait for the follow-up fear before trinketing (or bubbling). Comes down to gear, and how quick you are with interrupts. Afflic/Destro locks are much easier kills than monstrously durable sl/sl locks.
Warriors: A free kill. You can spam repentence/HoJ to stop them charging you, use freedom to stop hamstring > intercept and bubble/BoP disarm. Smart warriors will have a macro to swap out a sword and board while you are invulnerable.
Paladins: Mirror match! Ret all comes down to saving interrupts for enemy heals, and NOT bubbling first. Bandage/drink if they use Divine shield defensively, try your best to stay out of melee range if they use it offensively. Holy paladins are unkillable. (You *will* run out of mana/interrupts. Holy shock will be where your life keps going) Prot don't exist in a pvp context for obvious reasons.
Shamans: Elemental/Enhancement are fairly simple to beat. Judgement of Justice always to stop them escaping in GW form to heal up. Resto shamans are like fighting holy paladins.
Hunters: Bubble as much of The Skill Within as possible while piling on damage. Freedom keeps you in range, hammer of justice and repentence if they still aren't dead when those CDs are used. I find hunters a fun easy fight (because if anyone ganked me while leveling, it was usually a hunter).
Druids: Judgement of justice again to prevent fleeing. Blessing of freedom when you see an entangling roots coming. Stun them in caster form for great justi.....damage. Use AW rather than bubble to burst them down before HoTs can tick for too much. Feral will get an opener, immediately trinket and stun. Bubble when they go bear and Bash/Feral charge. Boomkin are deceptively tough, but none of their spells are an inherent counter to retadins.
Rogues: A rogue with all their CDs available will likely just beat you, like they will many classes (you can be satisfied that for the next 5 mins they are a walking honor kill). They can vanish twice, blind, gouge. Even if you seem to be killing them, they can likely get away. Trinket the kidney shot, and save hammer of justice for evasion (when they turn "see through", can't dodge while stunned). If they gouge/blind and try to break away to restealth, bubble, repentence, do whatever to stop them disappearing. Consecrate will do nothing to stop a rogue opener, but can be dropped during the fight (rank 1) to hopefully catch a vanish.
This is all incredibly generalised, just an overview of which classes are likely to be harder than others.
Edited, Sep 2nd 2008 11:45pm by ArtemisEnteri
Mages: Ice are my least favourite match up. Ice blocking your bubble, spellstealing your BoFreedom. I can't beat a really well played ice mage in a duel, and will often dread my rogue partner dying before me in a match against one. Fire mages can be tricky, but have less CDs and are a bit squishier.
Priests: Disc priests are another nightmare. Even if you are quick enough to interrupt Mass dispell, it's a spammable ability. And failing to interrupt the big heals means a loss as well. Try hitting Avenging wrath before it can be dispelled for huge damage. Spriests are much softer targets, your burst should annihilate them before mana burn can mess you up too much.
Warlocks: Another tough match, but the easier of those i've mentioned. When howl of terror hits, wait for the follow-up fear before trinketing (or bubbling). Comes down to gear, and how quick you are with interrupts. Afflic/Destro locks are much easier kills than monstrously durable sl/sl locks.
Warriors: A free kill. You can spam repentence/HoJ to stop them charging you, use freedom to stop hamstring > intercept and bubble/BoP disarm. Smart warriors will have a macro to swap out a sword and board while you are invulnerable.
Paladins: Mirror match! Ret all comes down to saving interrupts for enemy heals, and NOT bubbling first. Bandage/drink if they use Divine shield defensively, try your best to stay out of melee range if they use it offensively. Holy paladins are unkillable. (You *will* run out of mana/interrupts. Holy shock will be where your life keps going) Prot don't exist in a pvp context for obvious reasons.
Shamans: Elemental/Enhancement are fairly simple to beat. Judgement of Justice always to stop them escaping in GW form to heal up. Resto shamans are like fighting holy paladins.
Hunters: Bubble as much of The Skill Within as possible while piling on damage. Freedom keeps you in range, hammer of justice and repentence if they still aren't dead when those CDs are used. I find hunters a fun easy fight (because if anyone ganked me while leveling, it was usually a hunter).
Druids: Judgement of justice again to prevent fleeing. Blessing of freedom when you see an entangling roots coming. Stun them in caster form for great justi.....damage. Use AW rather than bubble to burst them down before HoTs can tick for too much. Feral will get an opener, immediately trinket and stun. Bubble when they go bear and Bash/Feral charge. Boomkin are deceptively tough, but none of their spells are an inherent counter to retadins.
Rogues: A rogue with all their CDs available will likely just beat you, like they will many classes (you can be satisfied that for the next 5 mins they are a walking honor kill). They can vanish twice, blind, gouge. Even if you seem to be killing them, they can likely get away. Trinket the kidney shot, and save hammer of justice for evasion (when they turn "see through", can't dodge while stunned). If they gouge/blind and try to break away to restealth, bubble, repentence, do whatever to stop them disappearing. Consecrate will do nothing to stop a rogue opener, but can be dropped during the fight (rank 1) to hopefully catch a vanish.
This is all incredibly generalised, just an overview of which classes are likely to be harder than others.
Edited, Sep 2nd 2008 11:45pm by ArtemisEnteri
I recommend you watch Kamil three, 1v1 Ret is almost as powerful as a rogue. And yes, Excellent Ret vs Excellent Rogue depends on how much PvE gear the Rogue has.
Quote:
How well does Ret Pally hold up 1vs1 against the other class? Like where does it fit in the balance of "this class usually owns this class, yet this class owns this class."?
first i'd ask what is your motive? you wanna be a duel monster or you want to farm kills or just being hypothetical? i'll assume the latter.
alot of 1vs1 relies on circumstances, from CDs to terrain to surroundings. if your are dueling it will generally be a 1vs1 on level terrain with full CDs and full preparation...you will be kited by casters, yet stealth will have a hard time sneaking up. if you are in BGs you have so much to use. take casters into a hut, lvl 1 consecrate a bridge, LoS vs casters. the biggest thing about BGs is you are not alone and you need to adapt to another enemy or another friendly.
i can say from experience that a Ret pally can defeat(consistantly) any class/spec except specced healers. every class advantage can be stripped by smart play.
I pvp a lot in all different circumstances (BG, world and arena for sh*ts and giggles).
Assuming that you are reasonably well geared and experienced (some people call this skilled)in pvp, you will be a fairly devestating force.
As Tommy said there is a difference between pvp types:
Duel: Where both of you are ready, have your CD's and know whats up.
Arena: Like a duel really but with more people.
World pvp: Can happen any time, you may be at half health/mana and/or no CDs
BG's: You know what is gonna happen, but you don't know when, who, why or how.
So there are different circumstances. IMO BG's and world pvp are the best places to hone experience and build up your skills, the others are too prearranged. In arena you will get owned by points farmers or face 2 people with all the mods and vent. In BG its you v whoever wants some and it presents you with a much more varied environment.
In my experience, healers cause problems unless you are lucky with some uber burst damage combined with a well placed stun, if that doesnt work then there is practically no chance that you will kill them.
Warlocks can be a pain if they chain fear you.
Rogues can be a pain with their lolstuns.
Overall I am happy with my retnoobs performance in pvp and can happily own most classes most of the time. Sometimes you get unlucky, sometimes you get outplayed, sometimes you just play badly and will get owned.
As long as you make use of your abilities then you will stand a good chance, also be a bit creative with them (abilities) use your bubble offensively when that lock is about to fear you, so you can stand and wail on him, use repentance first (esp with a mage), you still get increased damage from a SoC judge with it.
Heal when needed.
Use bandages as well.
You are melee so get in their face and stay there
Learn from people like Tommy and ToJ.
The classes are actually quite well balanced (execpt rogues and droods) but skill and playing well will give you the best chance you can make for yourself.
You can be given a full T6/S4 character and if you don't have experience in its use you will get owned.
Assuming that you are reasonably well geared and experienced (some people call this skilled)in pvp, you will be a fairly devestating force.
As Tommy said there is a difference between pvp types:
Duel: Where both of you are ready, have your CD's and know whats up.
Arena: Like a duel really but with more people.
World pvp: Can happen any time, you may be at half health/mana and/or no CDs
BG's: You know what is gonna happen, but you don't know when, who, why or how.
So there are different circumstances. IMO BG's and world pvp are the best places to hone experience and build up your skills, the others are too prearranged. In arena you will get owned by points farmers or face 2 people with all the mods and vent. In BG its you v whoever wants some and it presents you with a much more varied environment.
In my experience, healers cause problems unless you are lucky with some uber burst damage combined with a well placed stun, if that doesnt work then there is practically no chance that you will kill them.
Warlocks can be a pain if they chain fear you.
Rogues can be a pain with their lolstuns.
Overall I am happy with my retnoobs performance in pvp and can happily own most classes most of the time. Sometimes you get unlucky, sometimes you get outplayed, sometimes you just play badly and will get owned.
As long as you make use of your abilities then you will stand a good chance, also be a bit creative with them (abilities) use your bubble offensively when that lock is about to fear you, so you can stand and wail on him, use repentance first (esp with a mage), you still get increased damage from a SoC judge with it.
Heal when needed.
Use bandages as well.
You are melee so get in their face and stay there
Learn from people like Tommy and ToJ.
The classes are actually quite well balanced (execpt rogues and droods) but skill and playing well will give you the best chance you can make for yourself.
You can be given a full T6/S4 character and if you don't have experience in its use you will get owned.
In one of my 3v3 arena bouts it ended up me Ret vs a Holy Pld. It became one of those epic battles that lasted almost 10 minutes. I eventually wore him down and got him.
Like most have already said...it is situational. I have owned rogues and been owned by them. Hunters are probably my favorite to fight. Rarely have an issue with them. Slow them down with a blessing of Justice works well. Same for mages and priests. Can't say I have successfully beaten a priest though. Usually just a little short on damage output to get rid of them before a big heal.
Like most have already said...it is situational. I have owned rogues and been owned by them. Hunters are probably my favorite to fight. Rarely have an issue with them. Slow them down with a blessing of Justice works well. Same for mages and priests. Can't say I have successfully beaten a priest though. Usually just a little short on damage output to get rid of them before a big heal.
Scholar
32 posts
Being a prot pally, pvp usually isn't that fun for me. However, I still like rolling up into a BG every once in a while and owning some newbs. I'm just waiting to hit 70, then I will spec back and forth between ret and prot, to run some dungeons and rock some pvp. Anyway, I digress. Last night I was in AV, being Horde it's really not that much fun in the 61-70 bracket, I rolled up to take back one of our towers and promptly came across a 70 rogue. I was tearing him down, while still maintaining max health, then 2 more of his 70 friends came along. I almost had all 3 of them but, it was a bit much to handle. Just to clear up the circumstances, I'm lvl 65, with mostly greens, and all 3 of these peeps were in full S3 gear. So, never count out experience. I have been running BG's for a while now, and that experience has carried along way. Just because someone has better gear doesn't mean that they can beat you.
spliffua wrote:
Being a prot pally, pvp usually isn't that fun for me. However, I still like rolling up into a BG every once in a while and owning some newbs. I'm just waiting to hit 70, then I will spec back and forth between ret and prot, to run some dungeons and rock some pvp. Anyway, I digress. Last night I was in AV, being Horde it's really not that much fun in the 61-70 bracket, I rolled up to take back one of our towers and promptly came across a 70 rogue. I was tearing him down, while still maintaining max health, then 2 more of his 70 friends came along. I almost had all 3 of them but, it was a bit much to handle. Just to clear up the circumstances, I'm lvl 65, with mostly greens, and all 3 of these peeps were in full S3 gear. So, never count out experience. I have been running BG's for a while now, and that experience has carried along way. Just because someone has better gear doesn't mean that they can beat you.
Yeahs, thats BS, in full S2 I can more or less one shot a level 65. If I was a rogue it would be even easier. ANd BTW if he is full S3 (shoulders, weapons) HE WAS AT LEAST 1800 AT ONE POINT!
Scholar
32 posts
Whatever dude. I'm just telling you what happened. If it was different, i apologize. That's just what I saw.
Quote:
You can be given a full T6/S4 character and if you don't have experience in its use you will get owned.
...except Rogues. My friend has a S3/S4 Rogue, a few of my guildies traded chars for a day. Whoever got my lock had a miserable time of it, but I had a great 24hrs. Literally, I think I used three buttons in one fight just for fun and still never came close to dying, except one when I got Pyro'd outside of CloS and Cheat Death saved me.
Rogues need to be nerfed down, seriously.
Sinstralis wrote:
Quote:
You can be given a full T6/S4 character and if you don't have experience in its use you will get owned.
...except Rogues. My friend has a S3/S4 Rogue, a few of my guildies traded chars for a day. Whoever got my lock had a miserable time of it, but I had a great 24hrs. Literally, I think I used three buttons in one fight just for fun and still never came close to dying, except one when I got Pyro'd outside of CloS and Cheat Death saved me.
Rogues need to be nerfed down, seriously.
You can be given a full T6/S4 character and if you don't have experience in its use you will get owned.
...except Rogues. My friend has a S3/S4 Rogue, a few of my guildies traded chars for a day. Whoever got my lock had a miserable time of it, but I had a great 24hrs. Literally, I think I used three buttons in one fight just for fun and still never came close to dying, except one when I got Pyro'd outside of CloS and Cheat Death saved me.
Rogues need to be nerfed down, seriously.
Yeah, except rogues but then they are the class for the tards who cant build up any skill. Stuns, blind, vanish, more stuns, slow poinson, have I mentioned stuns?
Mind you I have noticed a bit of a difference with the rebalancing (rogues call ut a nerf) of cheat death.
My pally can dispatch rogues most of the time (much to their discust) however my Lock just gets raped hard by them (much to my Lock's discust)
Nerf Rogues
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