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Regarding WotLK Talents: "Moonfury" and "Genesis."Follow

#1 Sep 01 2008 at 2:01 PM Rating: Sub-Default
Let's face it, "Moonfury" is not worth 5 points, and in my opinion, "Genesis" isn't worth 5 points either. Now what I'm thinking is they should combine these talents into a single 2 point tier 1 talent in the Balance tree. I don't have any idea what the talent should be called, so if you'd like to make one up in your post, feel free to share it.

I'm thinking the talent should be something like...

2 points - Increases all Spell Damage/Healing by 6%

Sound better?

While you're at it, take a look at my level 80 WotLK "Restokin" build.

http://thottbot.com/wotlk/druid/t#dEsXv21//eMvNbke6

As you can see, the fact that I can only put 1 point in each of "Moonfury" and "Regenesis" has inspired this thread.

#2 Sep 01 2008 at 2:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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8,779 posts
uh....no. a 3-pt tier 1 talent that grants a 6% boost to all magical effects is...wrong. so very wrong. the nearest analogue of this that i can find right now is the tier 3 frost mage talent, piercing ice. for 3 points it provides a 6% boost in damage to frost skills.

its at tier 3, costs 6 points, and boosts one school (spec) of one class. what youre suggesting is something that is at tier 1, costs 3 points, and boosts every magical aspect of every spec of one class.

i appreciate the sentiment; balance seems "bloated" and this is a way to reduce the bloat. one thing a lot of people (and i mean a LOT) dont realize is that this bloat is intentional. its blizzards way of saying "hey, you have to make choices". in essence, there is no "optimal" build anymore. you can make a damn good argument for going 13 points into resto for furor, master shapeshifter and omen of clarity, but those 13 points can also be spent to great effect in balance. i can see effective pve balance builds that will incorporate OoC in resto, and i can see effective pve balance builds that will spend 70 points (out of 71) in balance. neither is necessarily "stronger" than the other, but one does have quantitatively more int and cheaper shapeshifting, along with the odd free spell, while the other has stronger treants, stronger aoe power, and benefits more from spell damage.

which is ultimately "better" will be up to the individual player to decide.
#3 Sep 01 2008 at 3:02 PM Rating: Default
From what I've seen and read, the talents in our Balance tree are weak compared to other classes crazy talents. In my opinion, the bloating is horrible in this tree, and more fat needs to be trimmed.

If 6% Spell Damage/Healing is too overpowered for tier 1, then make it 4%. In my opinion, compared to WotLK talents of other classes, I still feel 6% is perfectly balanced.

Edited, Sep 1st 2008 6:59pm by Gahnja
#4 Sep 01 2008 at 3:06 PM Rating: Good
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355 posts
It might be balanced, but not for tier one. That would be like putting heart of the wild as a tier one talent, with no pre-req. Or Nature's swiftness in tier one. Too much for too little investment in more mediocre talents to get at the juicy stuff.
#5REDACTED, Posted: Sep 01 2008 at 3:15 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I don't think this 6% Spell Damage/Healing would be anywhere near as much of a buff as "Nature's Swiftness" being a tier 1 talent. I'd even go as low as 4% for 2 points, and that certainly wouldn't be overpowered for a tier 1 talent.
#6 Sep 01 2008 at 9:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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8,779 posts
consider this: a fire mage has to spend two points at the 6th tier of the fire tree to get a 4% increase in fire damage (and ONLY fire damage).

a destro warlock has to spend two points at the 6th tier of the destro tree to get a 4% increase in fire damage (and again, its ONLY fire damage).

you are proposing a 4% increase to all spell and healing efects...for two points. disc priests get a 5% increase to all spell and healing effects at tier 1...for five points. you essentially want a talent thats almost as strong, for less than half the cost.

it wont happen. it cant happen. its simply too much power too early in the tree. why wouldnt a feral want to pick that up? a flat 4% increase in all healing they do for just two talents? for a pvp or hybrid style of play you wont find a better deal.

genesis by itself is a good talent, and not at all necessary for a nuking moonkin. if you want to have the maximum possible DPS from all of your balance spells, then getting genesis is a good idea, but if all you want is to wrath and starfire stuff to death, then genesis is a waste of points (while moonfury is not). right there we have an example of differentiation and choice within the spec; do you max out all possible avenues of dps? or do you focus on your two main nukes and optimize talents around that? the answer to that isnt to roll two talents into a single tier 1 talent and give it greater power for less cost, however nice that would seem.

as for the "cost" of moonfury....its right on par with the aforementioned mage and warlock talents. 6th tier, 5 point max, 2% increase in damage per point.
#7REDACTED, Posted: Sep 02 2008 at 7:10 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Yes is seems strong at first, but overall, I'd have to say this talent is bit of a nerf for the people investing deep in Balance. Say you get 4% Spell Damage/Healing in a tier 1, 2 point talent, and getting rid of "Moonfury" and "Genesis." You're missing out on 6% Wrath and Starfire damage, and 1% on DoT and HoT spells.
#8 Sep 02 2008 at 11:00 PM Rating: Decent
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3,114 posts
Gahnja wrote:
I still believe "cookie cutter" builds should be perfectly viable, as it adds more depth to the game


How is making only one viable spec ADDING more depth to the game when you're removing choices people need to make? You're a fool.

While I hate having to choose between the amazing new talents we have, I LOVE the fact that there are so many awesome Balance Talents, and that if I ever feel things are getting stale, I can respec around a bit and play my Moonkin a bit different than usual.
#9 Sep 03 2008 at 8:48 AM Rating: Default
Your're right, "cookie cutter" builds shouldn't be the only viable specs. People who specialize mostly in 1 tree deserve to have good characters too. Either way, without hybrid builds, this game would be a little less fun for players like me.
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