i have a night elf rogue, the thing is, my friend told me that night elf is a bad choice of race and that shadow meld is usless. is he right?
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He is right to a certain extent. Human is by far THE BEST choice for a rogue if your talking PvP. However, shadowmeld does have one use. In arena you can go over to the gems that allow you to see stealth and shadowmeld. While your stealth is cooling down you can wait for the gem to pop, and then grab it and return to stealth. Other rogues have to vanish. Now, this is only really useable against other stealth classes, and if your going up against humans with perception it really won't matter. My suggestion is if your not above level 20 or so I would roll Human. All of this information I have given you has come from Theo. You should read his Compendium for more info regarding rogues. Good Luck.
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Theo also occasionally mentions race isnt too big a factor in real terms.
Or at least i think he has said it a few times here and there.
ALl race abilities are highly situational, no matter their utility. Just pick a race that you like to look. Thats what really matters for the next 80 levels and the time you'll spend as a level 80.
Or at least i think he has said it a few times here and there.
ALl race abilities are highly situational, no matter their utility. Just pick a race that you like to look. Thats what really matters for the next 80 levels and the time you'll spend as a level 80.
Tenjen wrote:
Theo also occasionally mentions race isnt too big a factor in real terms.
Or at least i think he has said it a few times here and there.
ALl race abilities are highly situational, no matter their utility. Just pick a race that you like to look. Thats what really matters for the next 80 levels and the time you'll spend as a level 80.
Or at least i think he has said it a few times here and there.
ALl race abilities are highly situational, no matter their utility. Just pick a race that you like to look. Thats what really matters for the next 80 levels and the time you'll spend as a level 80.
The OP stated that his friend said Nelfs suck as a race and shadowmeld is useless. With that being said. To me it seems he is asking about racials. Racial abilities are the main reason you should pick the race, and as far as alliance goes humans have the better racials.
I have never seen Theo say "race isnt too big a factor in real terms" when it comes to pvp. I know that the extra dodge Nelfs get isn't a big factor and he might have said that, but I know for a fact Theo pays attention to racials. If you think other wise go to the deathknight forums. He is discussing which races you should pick, and why.
It's not that I'm so smart, it's just that I stay with problems longer. -Albert Einstein
PSN tag: DavidChrist. If you add me, send me a message telling me who you are, please.
Feyras, ****** Superhero wrote:
I think I'm going to sig myself, just to be different.
PSN tag: DavidChrist. If you add me, send me a message telling me who you are, please.
Tenjen wrote:
race isnt too big a factor in real terms.
I can't agree here. Else I wouldn't reroll my 70 nelf for a human. If you're speaking arena, race is a MAJOR factor.
nostra
The racial doesn't sync because you can already stealth. Duh. All it does is add "levels" to your stealth skill, making it harder for other players to detect you.
But since (barring Perception) only really bad rogues get caught in stealth, that's not an issue. The other racials work so much better. Escape Artist is fairly self-explanatory, Stoneform can be hit just before Vanish to ensure you don't get knocked back out of stealth (great for fleeing from warriors!) and Perception is just the best Alliance PvP racial in the game at the moment. With the close quarters of arena and the incredible importance of getting the first sap onto the opposing rogue, the 20sec of stealth detection is invaluable.
I know people who rolled night elf rogues, and nearly all of them are bad or incompetent rogues with nonsense specs, like combat daggers and deep assassination sans Mutilate. The good rogues I've met are either humans or dwarves. Usually humans.
But since (barring Perception) only really bad rogues get caught in stealth, that's not an issue. The other racials work so much better. Escape Artist is fairly self-explanatory, Stoneform can be hit just before Vanish to ensure you don't get knocked back out of stealth (great for fleeing from warriors!) and Perception is just the best Alliance PvP racial in the game at the moment. With the close quarters of arena and the incredible importance of getting the first sap onto the opposing rogue, the 20sec of stealth detection is invaluable.
I know people who rolled night elf rogues, and nearly all of them are bad or incompetent rogues with nonsense specs, like combat daggers and deep assassination sans Mutilate. The good rogues I've met are either humans or dwarves. Usually humans.
zepoodle wrote:
The racial doesn't sync because you can already stealth. Duh. All it does is add "levels" to your stealth skill, making it harder for other players to detect you.
Wrong. While the racial DOES increase the stealth level (slightly), it is not ONLY a passive ability. You can Shadowmeld and stay in stealth if you don't move. Which does not trigger the stealth CD and allows you to do something (like pick up the stone) and immediately enter stealth.
zepoodle wrote:
But since (barring Perception) only really bad rogues get caught in stealth, that's not an issue.
Uuuh... really? Let's say you have to good rogues, none of them with perception. Isn't it fair to assume that one might sap the other one? It doesn't make the sapped rogue a bad rogue, since both are good rogues :)
zepoodle wrote:
I know people who rolled night elf rogues, and nearly all of them are bad or incompetent rogues with nonsense specs
Watch some videos. There are quite a few very successfull nelf rogues out there.
nostra
Edited, Sep 1st 2008 5:55pm by nostraaa
I agree with nostraaa,
And if you wanna see how perception is a very good racial then watch the Art of Rawr, theres a link in The Alla PvP forums
Edited, Sep 1st 2008 12:04pm by imanohealu
And if you wanna see how perception is a very good racial then watch the Art of Rawr, theres a link in The Alla PvP forums
Edited, Sep 1st 2008 12:04pm by imanohealu
You've clearly decided to argue with me for some reason, so...whatever.
Wrong. While the racial DOES increase the stealth level (slightly), it is not ONLY a passive ability. You can Shadowmeld and stay in stealth if you don't move. Which does not trigger the stealth CD and allows you to do something (like pick up the stone) and immediately enter stealth.
I was aware of that, I just never saw it as useful. I mean, Vanish. x2 with Prep even. Blind, improved Gouge, whatever. Restealthing in PvP was never an issue for me.
Uuuh... really? Let's say you have to good rogues, none of them with perception. Isn't it fair to assume that one might sap the other one? It doesn't make the sapped rogue a bad rogue, since both are good rogues :)
With two rogues it's essentially a matter of chance. I was referring to a situation where you can see your target. If you're sneaking up on a visible target, and they see you before you can even get a sap off, you're probably not a very good rogue. You did a good job of not understanding what I was saying, though.
Yeah, what? I don't know any of them. I said "I know very few good night elf rogues". The claim that there exist some good ones out there (there obviously are good ones) is entirely irrelevant because I was speaking of my personal experience.
Are we done now?
nostraaa wrote:
zepoodle wrote:
The racial doesn't sync because you can already stealth. Duh. All it does is add "levels" to your stealth skill, making it harder for other players to detect you.
Wrong. While the racial DOES increase the stealth level (slightly), it is not ONLY a passive ability. You can Shadowmeld and stay in stealth if you don't move. Which does not trigger the stealth CD and allows you to do something (like pick up the stone) and immediately enter stealth.
I was aware of that, I just never saw it as useful. I mean, Vanish. x2 with Prep even. Blind, improved Gouge, whatever. Restealthing in PvP was never an issue for me.
nostraa wrote:
zepoodle wrote:
But since (barring Perception) only really bad rogues get caught in stealth, that's not an issue.
Uuuh... really? Let's say you have to good rogues, none of them with perception. Isn't it fair to assume that one might sap the other one? It doesn't make the sapped rogue a bad rogue, since both are good rogues :)
With two rogues it's essentially a matter of chance. I was referring to a situation where you can see your target. If you're sneaking up on a visible target, and they see you before you can even get a sap off, you're probably not a very good rogue. You did a good job of not understanding what I was saying, though.
nostraa wrote:
Watch some videos. There are quite a few very successfull nelf rogues out there.
Yeah, what? I don't know any of them. I said "I know very few good night elf rogues". The claim that there exist some good ones out there (there obviously are good ones) is entirely irrelevant because I was speaking of my personal experience.
Are we done now?
zepoodle wrote:
You've clearly decided to argue with me for some reason, so...whatever.
I don't argue with anybody for the stake of it. Your post just called for some comments, which I made. There was no offence meant, it's a pitty if you took one. So just relax man, and if you can't stand other people posting different ideas from yours, then maybe you should refrain from posting?
zepoodle wrote:
I was aware of that, I just never saw it as useful.
Exactly, as many other do. And that's why I pointed out it's also an active ability which can come quite handy. Shadowmend can also be used to drink/eat in safetly if stealth is on CD.
zepoodle wrote:
With two rogues it's essentially a matter of chance. I was referring to a situation where you can see your target. If you're sneaking up on a visible target, and they see you before you can even get a sap off, you're probably not a very good rogue. You did a good job of not understanding what I was saying, though.
Maybe because I was assuming we were talking among normal rogues, not with mental retards. If a rogue manages to get caught in stealth as you say by a non-stealther... yeah, that guy better stop playing a rogue right now.
zepoodle wrote:
nostraa wrote:
Watch some videos. There are quite a few very successfull nelf rogues out there.
Yeah, what? I don't know any of them. I said "I know very few good night elf rogues". The claim that there exist some good ones out there (there obviously are good ones) is entirely irrelevant because I was speaking of my personal experience.
We're not here to make philosophical discussions on the mental state of a particular poster. You mentioned that there were in your view very few good nelf rogues and I pointed out that I've seen a nice bunch of them. In facts, I would have expected to see more human rogues in the videos but did not, surprisingly. If you can't stand me posting a different view, then maybe you should stop posting?
zepoodle wrote:
Are we done now?
We are done now :)
nostra
Edited, Sep 2nd 2008 3:17pm by nostraaa
Okay. You're not exactly responding usefully, here. You made some comments about my post and I explained it. As far as I can see we don't actually disagree here but stuff like
is totally unnecessary. Imagined hostility is imagined. What we have here is an imaginary conflict. You are imagining that we are arguing. We're not arguing. We in fact agree with each other. You can continue with this weird passive-aggressive thing you've got going and start an argument if you really have to, that's fine, but you should know beforehand that I'm bailing out the instant you mention the size of your *****.
Quote:
So just relax man, and if you can't stand other people posting different ideas from yours, then maybe you should refrain from posting?
Quote:
If you can't stand me posting a different view, then maybe you should stop posting?
is totally unnecessary. Imagined hostility is imagined. What we have here is an imaginary conflict. You are imagining that we are arguing. We're not arguing. We in fact agree with each other. You can continue with this weird passive-aggressive thing you've got going and start an argument if you really have to, that's fine, but you should know beforehand that I'm bailing out the instant you mention the size of your *****.
Well, if there might have been an imaginary argument but we now both agree that there should no be one, all is well that ends well :)
nostra
P.S. I was about to forget the most important thing: was father's stronger than yours and I have a bigger ***** (kidding)
nostra
P.S. I was about to forget the most important thing: was father's stronger than yours and I have a bigger ***** (kidding)
I'm glad you didn't do something stupid like email me a picture of your **** or something.
Nah, I'm not that mean. As long as I just type it, one can assume I'm bragging! :)
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