It's a pet peeve of mine. I'd like to know how important you folks think cleansing is.
I'm beginning to feel like I should just shut up about this in our raids. Last night, halfway through the trash leading to Al'ar in TK, I had 42 dispels according to recount, with the next closest person in single digits. Just to be clear, no one is assigned to dispel. And every time I was sleeped I had to wait for it to run out - no one dispeled it.
This is not unusual - for me to be way ahead in dispels I mean. Only in ZA sometimes will our Holy Priest go neck and neck with me and that's mainly because there's a charm debuff that only she can dispel. Because of this, in my opinion at least, I am never above #3 on the healing meters.
So, do I shut up and just continue cleansing? Do I shut up and stop worrying about cleansing and just heal? Or do I keep cleansing and keep making what I believe to be an annoyance out of myself, that everyone seems to just ignore?
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Opinions re: cleansingFollow
"the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."
Hermann Goering, April 1946.
Hermann Goering, April 1946.
Cleansing is very important always.
And just do it silently. The better ones know full well that meters mean very little.
I heal in BGs and cleanse a lot. Sure I'm almost always #1 to #3 bg healer because bg healing is still not popular enough, but each time I cleanse it doesn't show in the healing meter and the things you cleanse either saved more HP than I could have restored with heals or removed effects extremely critical to the balance of the battle (like mage frost debuffs, warlock dots, rogue poisons and so on).
Meters are only good for knowing if your spell rotation and gear has your healing up to par with the rest of your teammates. So you'll only check that when you're comparing your constant healing vs. constant healing of the rest of the raid, when you're assuming another role it's hard to use meters for comparisons.
And don't worry much about people telling you that you're lower than others in the healing meters. Some healers will log out happy because they "beat you", and the others will be happy that you removed the debuffs from them.
And just do it silently. The better ones know full well that meters mean very little.
I heal in BGs and cleanse a lot. Sure I'm almost always #1 to #3 bg healer because bg healing is still not popular enough, but each time I cleanse it doesn't show in the healing meter and the things you cleanse either saved more HP than I could have restored with heals or removed effects extremely critical to the balance of the battle (like mage frost debuffs, warlock dots, rogue poisons and so on).
Meters are only good for knowing if your spell rotation and gear has your healing up to par with the rest of your teammates. So you'll only check that when you're comparing your constant healing vs. constant healing of the rest of the raid, when you're assuming another role it's hard to use meters for comparisons.
And don't worry much about people telling you that you're lower than others in the healing meters. Some healers will log out happy because they "beat you", and the others will be happy that you removed the debuffs from them.
Yeah, I guess I should have made it clear and I didn't. I don't care about the meters because most of the others don't put much stock in them, and the few officers that do don't seem to have let them stand in the way of accepting me into every raid I sign up and show up for. The people that do stare at them and want to be top healer are also top in overheals and usually OOM when it matters most.
What I'm asking is, am I obsessing too much about the whole cleansing thing? Do the rest of you feel it's something that's nice if it's done but nothing to really stress over? That's why I ask, "should I just shut up and heal?" I don't want to become the guy people ignore because he won't shut up about...............(fill in the blank, in this case cleansing).
I only mentioned the healing meters to make the point that doing all that cleansing is preventing me from healing. That may be obvious and maybe I didn't need to mention it.
What I'm asking is, am I obsessing too much about the whole cleansing thing? Do the rest of you feel it's something that's nice if it's done but nothing to really stress over? That's why I ask, "should I just shut up and heal?" I don't want to become the guy people ignore because he won't shut up about...............(fill in the blank, in this case cleansing).
I only mentioned the healing meters to make the point that doing all that cleansing is preventing me from healing. That may be obvious and maybe I didn't need to mention it.
"the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."
Hermann Goering, April 1946.
Hermann Goering, April 1946.
Cleansing can be vital. There are certain debuffs that, to me, take priority over heals unless one of my targets is within one hit of dying. Others aren't necessarily worth a GCD unless everyone is topped off.
One other thing to consider is that, once a healer has a reputation for being a fast, reliable dispeller, other healers might just concentrate on healing, trusting the fast guy to git-r-done. I think the other paladins in my guild raids do this, since I use grid/clique, which is optimized for cleansing even over healing, while they use raid frames or even the standard UI.
I wouldn't worry about it until it gets to the point that there are so many debuffs up that you can't do your healing job - and then I'd think about pointing the finger at the raid as a whole as much as the other healers.
One other thing to consider is that, once a healer has a reputation for being a fast, reliable dispeller, other healers might just concentrate on healing, trusting the fast guy to git-r-done. I think the other paladins in my guild raids do this, since I use grid/clique, which is optimized for cleansing even over healing, while they use raid frames or even the standard UI.
I wouldn't worry about it until it gets to the point that there are so many debuffs up that you can't do your healing job - and then I'd think about pointing the finger at the raid as a whole as much as the other healers.
I agree, just keep doing what you're doing. If it's a big issue that other people aren't doing their job, then bring it up with your class leader or some other guild official. Let the leadership know that you're the only one taking responsibility for this task.
Yes, Cleansing is very important: at times it is simply a bonus, but at others it is vital. Like any other aspect of healing you need to learn when you have to Cleanse, and when you can let it go, which it sounds you have a grasp on already. Sometimes as a tank I tell people not to Cleanse me so I can take more damage and get more mana back. This may be one of the reasons others aren't Cleansing. Going to fight Maiden in Kara I never Cleansed anyone because by the time I could get Cleanse off someone else had already taken care of it. My reaction time was just too slow: this could be part of it as well. Somethings to think about :)
Yes, Cleansing is very important: at times it is simply a bonus, but at others it is vital. Like any other aspect of healing you need to learn when you have to Cleanse, and when you can let it go, which it sounds you have a grasp on already. Sometimes as a tank I tell people not to Cleanse me so I can take more damage and get more mana back. This may be one of the reasons others aren't Cleansing. Going to fight Maiden in Kara I never Cleansed anyone because by the time I could get Cleanse off someone else had already taken care of it. My reaction time was just too slow: this could be part of it as well. Somethings to think about :)
Healing and Damage meters are BS.
The goal of the game is to win.
Quoting your healing stats or damage stats are similar to spiking the ball in the end-zone when your team is down by 3 Touchdowns.
My main is a mage. I have rarely raided (Time Issue) but I 5man a lot. I hate hearing some JO quoting his awesome damage when he's recieved 50% more heals than me, added little/NO CC, and provided no group utility.
Damage stats should have a negative factor on them for total heals, number of heals cast, and number of taunts... etc.
Healing stats should have a positive factor for buffs, removing debuffs, offensive moves (Dropping a judgement on trash to regain paly tank mana...) etc...
The goal of the game is to win.
Quoting your healing stats or damage stats are similar to spiking the ball in the end-zone when your team is down by 3 Touchdowns.
My main is a mage. I have rarely raided (Time Issue) but I 5man a lot. I hate hearing some JO quoting his awesome damage when he's recieved 50% more heals than me, added little/NO CC, and provided no group utility.
Damage stats should have a negative factor on them for total heals, number of heals cast, and number of taunts... etc.
Healing stats should have a positive factor for buffs, removing debuffs, offensive moves (Dropping a judgement on trash to regain paly tank mana...) etc...
First off, you should assign your Cleansers so that people don't waste theie time. You don't want 3 healers trying to cleanse a spell at the same time.
Second, like everyone else said, Cleansing is often critical to the success of an encounter. When a tank gets feared, Cleanse it so that they can get aggro back. When someone gets a huge DoT, Cleanse it so that they don't take damage. There are so many reasons that you should.
You should just talk to your raid leader, and have them assign Cleansing to you. Then, people will be aware that it is your job.
Anyone who uses heal meters/damage meters to judge a player is just showing how ignorant they are. I'm glad to hear the you don't do it.
This happens. Just don't let it bother you. As long as the lack of DPS doesn't cause the wipe, then just ignore them. On my DPS, my #1 goal is to avoid aggro (98% of the time, I am at the bottom of the "healed" list). #2 is keep my CC going. #3 is DPS. This plan helps when you move onto harder things like heroics or raids. Those DPSers that need a lot of healing will get killed when they get to that level since 1 hit = death. See how good their DPS is when they are dead :)
Second, like everyone else said, Cleansing is often critical to the success of an encounter. When a tank gets feared, Cleanse it so that they can get aggro back. When someone gets a huge DoT, Cleanse it so that they don't take damage. There are so many reasons that you should.
You should just talk to your raid leader, and have them assign Cleansing to you. Then, people will be aware that it is your job.
Anyone who uses heal meters/damage meters to judge a player is just showing how ignorant they are. I'm glad to hear the you don't do it.
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I hate hearing some JO quoting his awesome damage when he's recieved 50% more heals than me, added little/NO CC, and provided no group utility.
This happens. Just don't let it bother you. As long as the lack of DPS doesn't cause the wipe, then just ignore them. On my DPS, my #1 goal is to avoid aggro (98% of the time, I am at the bottom of the "healed" list). #2 is keep my CC going. #3 is DPS. This plan helps when you move onto harder things like heroics or raids. Those DPSers that need a lot of healing will get killed when they get to that level since 1 hit = death. See how good their DPS is when they are dead :)
It's time we start a union!!
Honestly, it's a pet peeve for me, not so much for the heal meter aspect (I'm more or less resigned to being low on the charts) but the fact that some debuffs really need to be cleansed and the raid's going to have difficulties if I'm incapacitated and thus no one's cleansing. I do think it's a bit like ElMuneco says though, that you create your own problem by being such a reliable cleanser that everyone else thinks, nay, KNOWS, they can slack off on it as long as you're around.
The new nuisance de jour is the poison debuff on the way to the Lynx boss in ZA... it slows down the tank's attack speed which is bad enough, but if not cleansed promptly, the debuff evolves and the tank falls asleep! Aargh!! Actually same topic, same neighborhood, the raid had a good laugh at our shammy's expense the other night, when he admitted that he didn't have Purge on an action bar.
Now, let's not get started on the value of cleansing in PVP....
Honestly, it's a pet peeve for me, not so much for the heal meter aspect (I'm more or less resigned to being low on the charts) but the fact that some debuffs really need to be cleansed and the raid's going to have difficulties if I'm incapacitated and thus no one's cleansing. I do think it's a bit like ElMuneco says though, that you create your own problem by being such a reliable cleanser that everyone else thinks, nay, KNOWS, they can slack off on it as long as you're around.
The new nuisance de jour is the poison debuff on the way to the Lynx boss in ZA... it slows down the tank's attack speed which is bad enough, but if not cleansed promptly, the debuff evolves and the tank falls asleep! Aargh!! Actually same topic, same neighborhood, the raid had a good laugh at our shammy's expense the other night, when he admitted that he didn't have Purge on an action bar.
Now, let's not get started on the value of cleansing in PVP....
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I hate hearing some JO quoting his awesome damage when he's recieved 50% more heals than me, added little/NO CC, and provided no group utility.
I hate hearing some JO quoting his awesome damage when he's recieved 50% more heals than me, added little/NO CC, and provided no group utility.
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This happens. Just don't let it bother you. As long as the lack of DPS doesn't cause the wipe, then just ignore them. On my DPS, my #1 goal is to avoid aggro (98% of the time, I am at the bottom of the "healed" list). #2 is keep my CC going. #3 is DPS. This plan helps when you move onto harder things like heroics or raids. Those DPSers that need a lot of healing will get killed when they get to that level since 1 hit = death. See how good their DPS is when they are dead :)
I said it in another post, but wow do I respect tanks more. As a main mage (Paly Tank ALT) I didn't understand what the big deal was with me opening with Pyro, Or sheep Pulling, or Switching to the X, when the skull wasn't yet dead (Cause my 3 second cast wouldn't get off before the Skull dropped - thus wasting my awesome DPS)... "Don't worry, I'll just Nova him" - will never again be said by me...
I am 10x the DPS that I was - just because I'm learning to tank.
YJMark wrote:
First off, you should assign your Cleansers so that people don't waste theie time. You don't want 3 healers trying to cleanse a spell at the same time.
Yes, this is an excellent point. It doesn't bother me so much that I'm the only one cleansing, as does the fact that no one dispels for me when I'm disabled by sleep or whatever. Again, it's not "I did it for you, why don't you do it for me?" It's that I have to sit there with my hands in my lap while I wait for the debuff to wear off. aaarrrrrrrrggghhhhhhh.
So, getting assigned cleanser for the raid isn't what I'm after - I'll do it anyway. I guess what I really want is someone assigned to watch me and dispel, and I'll cleanse everyone else. I'll stop urging people to dispel, and start looking for someone to watch my back for me. Problem solved.
I'm sitting here shaking my head right now because this discussion has made me realize that urging everyone to dispel is actually counter-productive. I can get everything but curses and charm, so I'll get a druid to de-curse and the holy priest will continue to de-charm. The other pallies can just keep an eye out for when we get those mass de-buff blasts. It seems so obvious now.
Hey, cleansing is fun. It's like giving the dog a bath. He smells so much better afterward and I get that nice sense of accomplishment. Unfortunately, his global cool-down lasts just long enough for him to find a nice, smelly spot in the yard to roll in.
"the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."
Hermann Goering, April 1946.
Hermann Goering, April 1946.
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